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Can we kill Irish once and for all

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Comments

  • #272
    Alternating Current
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 31 ✭Alternating Current


    shane7218 wrote: »
    I don't know a single person that can yet we are all forced to spend 12 years learning it. Such a waste when we could be learning something useful

    Or just spend a year learning it properly.


  • #273
    FunLover18
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,793 ✭✭✭FunLover18


    Alternating Current wrote: »
    Learning another language has been proven to benefit the brain and decrease the chances of diseases such as Alzeihmers and Parkinson's. It also helps you to learn other languages.

    But we're only talking about two years. And most students pick a foreign language for LC anyway


  • #274
    auldgranny
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 909 ✭✭✭auldgranny


    shane7218 wrote: »
    I don't know a single person that can yet we are all forced to spend 12 years learning it. Such a waste when we could be learning something useful

    Not a single one????? Doubt that.


  • #275
    shane7218
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 251 ✭✭shane7218


    auldgranny wrote: »
    But your lack of interest is not a valid argument to make it non-compulsary


    Why isn't it ??? Why would we force people to do something that for most people is useless ?


  • #276
    FunLover18
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,793 ✭✭✭FunLover18


    auldgranny wrote: »
    Not a single one????? Doubt that.

    Even if they do it's more likely thanks to the eleven years studying Irish prior to Leaving Cert.


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  • #277
    kowloon
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,780 ✭✭✭✭kowloon


    auldgranny wrote: »
    We could use the time to improve people's standard of english

    It's a deep burn.


  • #278
    Roquentin
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,130 ✭✭✭Roquentin


    i think we would be better learning psychology to be honest


  • #279
    auldgranny
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 909 ✭✭✭auldgranny


    shane7218 wrote: »
    Why isn't it ??? Why would we force people to do something that for most people is useless ?

    If teenagers were only taught what was useful and interesting to them, it would be a very narrow curriculum.


  • #280
    wendell borton
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,335 ✭✭✭wendell borton


    The way the language is thought is seriously flawed alright, but let's not throw the baby with the bathwater with talk of killing it.
    Its shouldn't be too hard to improve things, what the welsh have done with their language is an example of what can be done.


  • #281
    shane7218
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 251 ✭✭shane7218


    auldgranny wrote: »
    If teenagers were only taught what was useful and interesting to them, it would be a very narrow curriculum.


    so why can't it be an option like most of the other subjects ?


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  • #282
    mickstupp
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,764 ✭✭✭mickstupp


    I've yet to see a single genuine argument as to why it should be compulsory at Leaving Cert level.


  • #283
    auldgranny
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 909 ✭✭✭auldgranny


    shane7218 wrote: »
    so why can't it be an option like most of the other subjects ?

    I have no problem with that. If you check the poll I voted for that, but I would like a more articulate and powerful argument than it's useless, boring and you are no good at it.


  • #284
    auldgranny
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 909 ✭✭✭auldgranny


    mickstupp wrote: »
    I've yet to see a single genuine argument as to why it should be compulsory at Leaving Cert level.

    And the op has yet to give a persuasive answer as to why it shouldn't


  • #285
    Blazer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,483 ✭✭✭✭Blazer


    I say dump it and make a foreign language mandatory from primary like French/German/Italian etc.
    The amount of jobs out there looking for people with one of the above languages in IT alone would make it worth our while. I'm sorry I never stuck with my secondary school French as it would be really worth a fair few bob to me now.
    Besides the Irish language is fúcking awful sounding.


  • #286
    FunLover18
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,793 ✭✭✭FunLover18


    auldgranny wrote: »
    And the op has yet to give a persuasive answer as to why it shouldn't

    He shouldn't have to! He wants to make it OPTIONAL!! Do you understand that people will still be able to do Irish.

    What logic are you using where a choice has to be justified?


  • #287
    shruikan2553
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,113 ✭✭✭shruikan2553


    auldgranny wrote: »
    And the op has yet to give a persuasive answer as to why it shouldn't

    He might not have but its very easy. You spend primary school and the junior cert years learning it. Which I would consider a decent amount of time to spend on a language. 2 years less of learning for people who arent interested in it is not going to have much if any affect on the language. This allows the teachers to focus on those who wish to learn it.

    Its a win win, everyone has had a taste of it, those who dont want to can leave, those who do stay on.


  • #288
    Nemeses
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,829 ✭✭✭Nemeses


    shruikan2553 wrote: »
    He might not have but its very easy. You spend primary school and the junior cert years learning it. Which I would consider a decent amount of time to spend on a language. 2 years less of learning for people who arent interested in it is not going to have much if any affect on the language. This allows the teachers to focus on those who wish to learn it.

    Its a win win, everyone has had a taste of it, those who dont want to can leave, those who do stay on.

    There be logics in that.

    Seems to be fairest way of dealing with the issue.

    Ye get to keep the language and also the prospect of actual proper interest too.


  • #289
    Alternating Current
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 31 ✭Alternating Current


    Blazer wrote: »
    I say dump it and make a foreign language mandatory from primary like French/German/Italian etc.
    The amount of jobs out there looking for people with one of the above languages in IT alone would make it worth our while. I'm sorry I never stuck with my secondary school French as it would be really worth a fair few bob to me now.
    Besides the Irish language is fúcking awful sounding.

    No one will become fluent if they don't change how we teach languages.


  • #290
    auldgranny
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 909 ✭✭✭auldgranny


    FunLover18 wrote: »
    He shouldn't have to! He wants to make it OPTIONAL!! Do you understand that people will still be able to do Irish.

    What logic are you using where a choice has to be justified?

    He doesn't want to make it optional in thread title. He wants to kill it off in his earlier posts. If you read my posts i agree with a choice but his reasons are pathetic


  • #291
    auldgranny
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 909 ✭✭✭auldgranny


    shruikan2553 wrote: »
    He might not have but its very easy. You spend primary school and the junior cert years learning it. Which I would consider a decent amount of time to spend on a language. 2 years less of learning for people who arent interested in it is not going to have much if any affect on the language. This allows the teachers to focus on those who wish to learn it.

    Its a win win, everyone has had a taste of it, those who dont want to can leave, those who do stay on.

    SEE This is an articulate argument for choice.


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  • #292
    Aineoil
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,358 ✭✭✭Aineoil


    shruikan2553 wrote: »
    He might not have but its very easy. You spend primary school and the junior cert years learning it. Which I would consider a decent amount of time to spend on a language. 2 years less of learning for people who arent interested in it is not going to have much if any affect on the language. This allows the teachers to focus on those who wish to learn it.

    Its a win win, everyone has had a taste of it, those who dont want to can leave, those who do stay on.

    I agree with you.


  • #293
    xLisaBx
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 901 ✭✭✭xLisaBx


    I think it should be optional from JC onwards. However, I believe that all students, regardless of race, should have to do non exam classes in irish.
    It's unfair to those depending on high points


  • #294
    FunLover18
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,793 ✭✭✭FunLover18


    auldgranny wrote: »
    He doesn't want to make it optional in thread title. He wants to kill it off in his earlier posts. If you read my posts i agree with a choice but his reasons are pathetic

    In the OP he makes it clear that he wants to make it optional for LC and is fine with it at Junior Cert level. I don't know why he used such strong language in the thread title

    My point is that we shouldn't need to produce a reason for optional Irish at LC. It should be up to those in favour of compulsory Irish to justify it, which they repeatedly fail to do.


  • #295
    kowloon
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,780 ✭✭✭✭kowloon


    Irish won't die if it's made optional, the people who love it are the ones who keep it alive. If tax incentives and extra points were the only thing propping it up it deserves to dies, it would be proof that it has no cultural relevance any more, but I don't believe that is the case.
    The LC is effectively a two year entrance exam, let people pick and choose what's best for them.
    How do the compulsory Irish proponents feel about history being optional for LC and possibly being optional for JC?


  • #296
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    Alternating Current wrote: »
    No one will become fluent if they don't change how we teach languages.
    All the pro-compulsory Irish people seem to say that. How come we have better French or German then after much less time studying it? Because it's USEFUL.
    No matter how well you teach Irish, nobody will care because it is essentially useless. Better off having first aid self-defence classes TBH.


  • #297
    shane7218
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 251 ✭✭shane7218


    Dan_Solo wrote: »
    All the pro-compulsory Irish people seem to say that. How come we have better French or German then after much less time studying it? Because it's USEFUL.
    No matter how well you teach Irish, nobody will care because it is essentially useless. Better off having first aid self-defence classes TBH.


    This is my point exactly


  • #298
    Alternating Current
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 31 ✭Alternating Current


    Dan_Solo wrote: »
    All the pro-compulsory Irish people seem to say that. How come we have better French or German then after much less time studying it? Because it's USEFUL.
    No matter how well you teach Irish, nobody will care because it is essentially useless. Better off having first aid self-defence classes TBH.

    It's actually taught differently, but how many pupils become fluent in French or German after 6 years of learning them. We teach foreign languages better than Irish, but we still teach them terribly. It's nearly useless teaching French and German the way we do because no one becomes fluent due to learning it in school.


  • #299
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 13,822 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Póg mo hóin


  • #300
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    Alternating Current wrote: »
    It's actually taught differently, but how many pupils become fluent in French or German after 6 years of learning them. We teach foreign languages better than Irish, but we still teach them terribly. It's nearly useless teaching French and German the way we do because no one becomes fluent due to learning it in school.
    But you've missed the point.
    Even if school leavers were 100% fluent Irish speakers they still wouldn't use it. We are culturally ENGLISH speakers and every bit of media we consume is in English.


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  • #301
    Alternating Current
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 31 ✭Alternating Current


    Dan_Solo wrote: »
    But you've missed the point.
    Even if school leavers were 100% fluent Irish speakers they still wouldn't use it. We are culturally ENGLISH speakers and every bit of media we consume is in English.

    If we were taught in such a way that it is enjoyable to learn more people would speak it. Learning a second language makes it easier to learn other languages and helps to prevent cognitive decline.


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