Rules query re fourball matchplay

agusta · 03-07-2014 11:53PM

ChippingSodbury wrote: »

I'd love to know where all of these "interpretations" of the rules come from! You cannot knowingly allow an opponent to break the rules: it's black and white in rule 1-3.
I would always try and intervene/ offer advice before an opponent does something silly that I would know to be a breach of the rules. I consider that to be sportsmanship: it's too late after the event.

slightly incorrect for matchplay

http://www.barryrhodes.com/2013_04_01_archive.html

cairny · 03-07-2014 11:55PM

SaveOurLyric wrote: »

1) Opponent touches green indicating line of putt. Didnt know the rules.....could say its in his control and his fault....but let it slide.

2) Opponent startled by a shout from a neighboring tee while clearly mis****s a putt attempt as a result. Roll the ball back to him and give him another go ? He was an unlucky victim of bad timing outside his control. Only sporting to give him a second go ? Or give him the hole maybe ? Its only sporting.

Careful....rolling ball back to him could be a rules breach if you were still to putt

D Hayes · 04-07-2014 08:49AM

Barry Rhodes sent out an email on the topic of "Pressing down on a line of a putt" just a couple of days ago. Here's a link to it.

Well worth signing up to his newsletter - goes into a bit of detail if there were any rule-related incidents in the previous week's tour events.

Here's one of the funnier ones involving Larrazabal. Some die-hard spectators out there!

Dr_Colossus · 04-07-2014 08:57AM

cairny wrote: »

Careful....rolling ball back to him could be a rules breach if you were still to putt

I heard of such an incident in the singles matchplay in one Dublin club last year. Think it was the 16th and match all square and both players on the green in regulation, player A about 10 foot and player B let's say 30 foot. Player B hits a decent lag putt to about 3 feet and as he's walking up to his ball player A taps it back to him saying it's good. Good things were not to follow as player B then penalises player A for testing the green and claims the hole. All hell broke loose thereafter.

GreeBo · 04-07-2014 09:21AM

Dr_Colossus wrote: »

I heard of such an incident in the singles matchplay in one Dublin club last year. Think it was the 16th and match all square and both players on the green in regulation, player A about 10 foot and player B let's say 30 foot. Player B hits a decent lag putt to about 3 feet and as he's walking up to his ball player A taps it back to him saying it's good. Good things were not to follow as player B then penalises player A for testing the green and claims the hole. All hell broke loose thereafter.

It's up to the player themselves as to whether or not they were testing the green.

ForeRight · 04-07-2014 09:22AM

Dr_Colossus wrote: »

I heard of such an incident in the singles matchplay in one Dublin club last year. Think it was the 16th and match all square and both players on the green in regulation, player A about 10 foot and player B let's say 30 foot. Player B hits a decent lag putt to about 3 feet and as he's walking up to his ball player A taps it back to him saying it's good. Good things were not to follow as player B then penalises player A for testing the green and claims the hole. All hell broke loose thereafter.

There are some out and out bankers with a W playing this game. Claiming a hole like that is cringe worthy and if highly embarrassing

SnowDrifts · 04-07-2014 09:29AM

Dr_Colossus wrote: »

I heard of such an incident in the singles matchplay in one Dublin club last year. Think it was the 16th and match all square and both players on the green in regulation, player A about 10 foot and player B let's say 30 foot. Player B hits a decent lag putt to about 3 feet and as he's walking up to his ball player A taps it back to him saying it's good. Good things were not to follow as player B then penalises player A for testing the green and claims the hole. All hell broke loose thereafter.

http://www.usga.org/Rule-Books/Rules-of-Golf/Decision-16/#d16-1d-1

16-1d/1
Player Concedes Opponent's Next Stroke and Rolls or Knocks Ball to Opponent

Q.A player concedes his opponent's next stroke and either picks up the opponent's ball and rolls it to the opponent or knocks it back to him with a club. The player did so only for the purpose of returning the opponent's ball to him, not to test the surface of the putting green. Was the player in breach of Rule 16-1d (Testing Surface)?

A.No. Such casual action is not a breach of Rule 16-1d.

16-1d/2
Player Concedes Opponent's Next Stroke and Knocks His Ball Away Along Own Line of Putt

Q.A player concedes his opponent's next stroke and knocks his ball away on the same line on which he (the player) must subsequently putt. Is this a breach of Rule 16-1d?

A.It is a question of fact whether or not the player's action was for the purpose of testing the surface of the putting green. The manner and apparent purpose of the action would be the determining factors in each individual case.

Dr_Colossus · 04-07-2014 09:36AM

SnowDrifts wrote: »

http://www.usga.org/Rule-Books/Rules-of-Golf/Decision-16/#d16-1d-1

Interesting. To be honest I never heard what the final outcome of the case was, it nearly came to a bust up and the situation went before the committee/council for a decision which appeared to take forever (I played with player A in the interim between the fabled matchplay match and the decision which was still pending at the time).

SnowDrifts · 04-07-2014 09:45AM

Dr_Colossus wrote: »

Interesting. To be honest I never heard what the final outcome of the case was, it nearly came to a bust up and the situation went before the committee/council for a decision which appeared to take forever (I played with player A in the interim between the fabled matchplay match and the decision which was still pending at the time).

Sad way for a match to be decided. The problem with the rules of golf is that a lot of important aspects to a said rule are contained within the decisions and they are very difficult to look up during play.

Tiger Mcilroy · 04-07-2014 10:16AM

cairny wrote: »

Careful....rolling ball back to him could be a rules breach if you were still to putt

I know a match in my club was claimed on the 18h when somebody rolled the ball back to his opponent after conceding the 1 footer left.

Arsenium · 04-07-2014 11:10AM

So is it a case, in matchplay, that if I see a breach of rules by my opponent and I fully believe it is as a result of not understanding the rule rather than deliberate, I can choose to ignore the breach of rule so long as I dont mention it to my opponent, in which case we would both be disqualified?

And then, once my opponent plays his first shot on the next hole, it is ok to mention it?

PARlance · 04-07-2014 11:21AM

Arsenium wrote: »

So is it a case, in matchplay, that if I see a breach of rules by my opponent and I fully believe it is as a result of not understanding the rule rather than deliberate, I can choose to ignore the breach of rule so long as I dont mention it to my opponent, in which case we would both be disqualified?

And then, once my opponent plays his first shot on the next hole, it is ok to mention it?

That's what I've gathered.
A minor detail but I think it's until the first person tees off on the next.

But as someone said before. Prob best to wait till everyone tees off so any discussion can take place while walking to second shots.

alxmorgan · 04-07-2014 11:25AM

Dr_Colossus wrote: »

I heard of such an incident in the singles matchplay in one Dublin club last year. Think it was the 16th and match all square and both players on the green in regulation, player A about 10 foot and player B let's say 30 foot. Player B hits a decent lag putt to about 3 feet and as he's walking up to his ball player A taps it back to him saying it's good. Good things were not to follow as player B then penalises player A for testing the green and claims the hole. All hell broke loose thereafter.

Dear Lord......for cases such as this what goes around comes around I think. If I ever even consider doing something like this you'll see my clubs on adverts within 20 mins.

GreeBo · 04-07-2014 11:37AM

alxmorgan wrote: »

Dear Lord......for cases such as this what goes around comes around I think. If I ever even consider doing something like this you'll see my clubs on adverts within 20 mins.

This is (one of the few!) places I think the rules work well.
The player themselves is the sole judge as to whether or not they were testing the green. The opposition can say what they want until they are blue in the face, you, the player decide.

I'd love that to happen to me in a match, believe it or not I can be quite stubborn, they'd never get me to concede the hole and I'd let them use their own anger on the remaining holes to beat them.

ForeRight · 04-07-2014 11:44AM

GreeBo wrote: »

This is (one of the few!) places I think the rules work well.
The player themselves is the sole judge as to whether or not they were testing the green. The opposition can say what they want until they are blue in the face, you, the player decide.

I'd love that to happen to me in a match, believe it or not I can be quite stubborn, they'd never get me to concede the hole and I'd let them use their own anger on the remaining holes to beat them.

I can just picture you saying no concession in your big black bold voice

alxmorgan · 04-07-2014 11:52AM

GreeBo wrote: »

This is (one of the few!) places I think the rules work well.
The player themselves is the sole judge as to whether or not they were testing the green. The opposition can say what they want until they are blue in the face, you, the player decide.

I'd love that to happen to me in a match, believe it or not I can be quite stubborn, they'd never get me to concede the hole and I'd let them use their own anger on the remaining holes to beat them.

Ah g'way o'r that :rolleyes:

yes there · 04-07-2014 11:57AM

What if you said to your opponent that what he done was a mistake and why. The result of which is cause for you to claim the hole or the opponent to concede the hole. Then your opponent offers to concede the hole which you do not accept. Would that be acceptable? I think it would as you are aknowledging the rule, both are not waiving the rule and the player is just showing some discretion.

Arsenium · 04-07-2014 12:10PM

yes there wrote: »

What if you said to your opponent that what he done was a mistake and why. The result of which is cause for you to claim the hole or the opponent to concede the hole. Then your opponent offers to concede the hole which you do not accept. Would that be acceptable? I think it would as you are aknowledging the rule, both are not waiving the rule and the player is just showing some discretion.

Interesting. I think once you acknowledge the breach of the rule, then the penalty automatically is loss of hole. I dont think you then have any discretion in the matter? To claim the hole or for your opponent to concede it.

If you then choose to waive the rule, both of you are then disqualified.

I could of course be wrong here.

Whyner · 04-07-2014 12:33PM

GreeBo wrote: »

You either play by all the rules or not all at. Otherwise where you draw the line might be different than the next guy, then what?you ok with him giving his ball a little kick out of the rough?

Have you ever knowingly turned a blind eye to someone who is breaking a rule?

I sure have and will continue to

namloc1980 · 04-07-2014 01:00PM

yes there wrote: »

What if you said to your opponent that what he done was a mistake and why. The result of which is cause for you to claim the hole or the opponent to concede the hole. Then your opponent offers to concede the hole which you do not accept. Would that be acceptable? I think it would as you are aknowledging the rule, both are not waiving the rule and the player is just showing some discretion.

In that case you would both be disqualified. Once the breach is mentioned at the hole it must be claimed. If in that case you both moved onto the next hole and teed off you would have technically agreed to waive the Rule on the prior hole.

Rules query re fourball matchplay

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