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Outdoor Wedding Ceremony - Validity

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,302 ✭✭✭Gatica


    We were lucky to have a wonderful outdoor ceremony before they tried to enforce the Registrar rules on everyone else. It's a shame really that they're trying to control how/where a wedding takes places that's presided by a supposedly qualified person.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,928 ✭✭✭✭rainbow kirby


    The General Registrar’s office said it insisted on weddings being held indoors “to avoid situations where marriages are solemnised to which there may be an impediment, to prevent forced marriages, and to provide an opportunity for the making of objections.”

    It did not explain how four walls and a roof could safeguard against such eventualities.

    This says it all really... surely for pretty much all of their objections listed an outdoor ceremony actually makes things easier?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,055 ✭✭✭conf101


    It's complete nonsense from the HSE.

    We're getting married in August and had arranged with our celebrant (who has been brilliant from day 1) to have an outdoor ceremony. Initially the plan was that we would have to go indoors during the declaration part of the ceremony to fulfill HSE criteria (just us, celebrant & witnesses) and that would be fine. But we got a call last week saying that unfortunately we can't even do that any more, the whole thing has to now take place indoors.

    I'm sure the HUI will fight it and it will eventually be resolved but for now it's a pile of crap from the HSE. There's no sensible justification for it.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 266 ✭✭nearzero


    It was fab to hear the Humanist society being interviewed on the radio - they put across their point so well & spoke so eloquently about the subject.

    They pointed out that the law does state 'any place open to the public' and that they did feel the HSE was enforcing the 'building' regulation onto that phrase wasnt within the spirit of the law. It is open to interruption & they are choosing to enforce it very literally.

    The HSE are maintaining that its to prevent forced or secret marriages! But there is no statistics to back this up & the Humanist society pointed out that they could be asked to perform a ceremony in a hotel in some back room but they cant have it out on the lawn in full few of everyone - so the HSE point doesnt hold much water! Interesting though :)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,442 ✭✭✭Sulla Felix


    BNit of a pain in the ass, but Presumably you'll be indoors at some stage during the day? Outdoor ceremony (most of the ceremony is meaningless legally anyway) and when you get to the reception duck into a spare room with two witnesses. The actual legal part takes only a few minutes if you're so inclined.
    Or am I missing something?


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,470 ✭✭✭pooch90


    They won't do any of it outdoors at all Sulla Felix.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,055 ✭✭✭conf101


    BNit of a pain in the ass, but Presumably you'll be indoors at some stage during the day? Outdoor ceremony (most of the ceremony is meaningless legally anyway) and when you get to the reception duck into a spare room with two witnesses. The actual legal part takes only a few minutes if you're so inclined.
    Or am I missing something?

    That's the way Humanists had been doing it: have the ceremony outdoors and then pop indoors for the legal bit and everyone was happy.

    But that's what the HSE are preventing them from doing. They say that this constitutes 2 ceremonies so each invalidates the other. Complete nonsense as they would originally claim that a fully outdoor ceremony is invalid so how they can now claim that it is if part takes place indoors is ridiculous!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,159 ✭✭✭stinkle


    constitutes 2 ceremonies? do they say the same about religious ones? like the wedding mass followed by the bit when the couple disappear off somewhere and everyone else gets a bit bored waiting til they come back?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,809 ✭✭✭Addle


    That's not another ceremony, that's just signing the register, and I've never not seen it done away from the congregation.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,159 ✭✭✭stinkle


    I know that it's not another ceremony, that's why I'm aghast. But regardless of the religious stuff that precedes it, signing the register is the important part. Once the 5 signatures are on the MRF and the legal words were spoken by the registered solemniser and couple that should be sufficient. Having handed in our MRF and received or marriage cert yesterday I know if we'd lost that form the registrar wouldnt have entertained us no matter who said what or where on the day.

    I can't see how they are able to treat "humanist ceremony outdoors, with non-legally binding pleasant words spoken, followed by indoorsy legalities with 2 witnesses and celebrant" different to "religious service of choice, with non-legally binding religiousy promises, followed by legalities with 2 witnesses and celebrant". We had a handfasting for example, it's no more legal than a prayer, but surely it should be ok for couples to do whatever ceremonial stuff they like, then retire indoors and say the required legal words in front of celebrant and witnesses.

    In my experience theres an hour or so of mass and then everyone is left waiting while couple and witnesses go off to the sacristry with priest and sign/pose for pics.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,302 ✭✭✭Gatica


    I don't think the couples go off when in the church, it's done there and then in front of everyone and in the same building.
    The whole thing is ridiculous though. Anyone should be able to register, if they meet certain requirements and perform ceremonies. It's such a monopoly here for those on the "inside"...


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,159 ✭✭✭stinkle


    Our local church has an area where they go back to. Always thought it was strange and annoying. It's old and huge though, maybe more modern buildings don't bother/have the space?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,809 ✭✭✭Addle


    The only thing that's good about the law regarding getting married in Ireland is that there's no chance of Vegas style elopements/mistakes!
    After a 3 month wait, everything about the ceremony should be a choice.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,928 ✭✭✭✭rainbow kirby


    English couples seem to get on just fine with a 16 day notice period :pac:


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,055 ✭✭✭conf101


    There's a huge contradiction in the HSE's "2 ceremonies" thing. The whole thing makes no sense and any reasonable explanation of it is impossible. It's infuriating for me because the whole thing has come too late for me to make alternative arrangements!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,159 ✭✭✭stinkle




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,302 ✭✭✭Gatica


    about bloody time!

    Although from what I understand it was never illegal, just in murky waters since the HSE were frowning upon it.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,928 ✭✭✭✭rainbow kirby


    Good news, now just the Irish weather to contend with for those who want one :)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,663 ✭✭✭Milly33


    Yep its great news,,, As above jus the weather now to sort out...


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,470 ✭✭✭pooch90


    Brilliant news,outdoor wedding in 2 weeks. I'm over the moon!!!


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,663 ✭✭✭Milly33


    wow congratulations to you.. Did ye have a civil planned indoors and just ring them and say ye wanted outdoors or what did ye do


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,470 ✭✭✭pooch90


    It was always planned for outdoors, then when they messed with it all, we were going to do legalities few days before and blessing outdoors. So just cancelled the thing for few days before. Jammy timing!!!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,663 ✭✭✭Milly33


    I see I see.. All ends well, will be nicer to have it all done on the one day for ye


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,470 ✭✭✭pooch90


    Also nice to have just one wedding anniversary!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 44 my username


    Sorry to drag up an old thread! Is the current status of this still murky or is this definitely legal now? I ask because the HSE website still lists open air as a no go


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 14,550 ✭✭✭✭fits


    Really? Where did you see that. Its definitely legal. Should be specific on humanism website

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 44 my username


    fits wrote: »
    Really? Where did you see that. Its definitely legal. Should be specific on humanism website

    Www.hse.ie/eng/services/list/1/bdm/marriagesinireland/civil ceremony.html

    Venues such as marquees, private dwellings or the open air are not acceptable. To ensure the venue is approved in time for your wedding you should arrange for the approval well in advance of notifying the Registrar.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81 ✭✭Here Comes The Trio



    Venues such as marquees, private dwellings or the open air are not acceptable. To ensure the venue is approved in time for your wedding you should arrange for the approval well in advance of notifying the Registrar.

    This only applies to HSE ceremonies though, right?
    We have played outdoors for Humanist ceremonies and ceremonies by the Grace Christian Church, both of which are fully legal ceremonies and everything took place outdoors.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,470 ✭✭✭pooch90


    No it's all OK now.
    AFAIK you have to be able to give a definite address though, not just the middle of the woods.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,144 ✭✭✭✭neris


    the 1st mistake made was letting the HSE take control over weddings/registration


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