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The Sexual Cartel

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Comments

  • #102
    28064212
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,815 ✭✭✭✭28064212


    The Corinthian wrote: »
    And you are deliberately ignoring the fact that someone would be using additional contraception despite being assured by the other party that there is no problem.
    Anybody claiming that is either ignorant of reality, or a deity. Nobody can claim with 100% certainty that heterosexual intercourse will not result in a pregnancy.
    The Corinthian wrote: »
    If your partner tells you a particular task is taken care of, do you check anyway, and if so why? You can rationalize it as being 'responsible', but ultimately because you do not trust that they've carried it out.
    How important is it? Will it affect me? If it's very important, and will affect me a lot, yes I will check. Especially when my partner has no way of knowing the definitive result of that task.
    The Corinthian wrote: »
    And where this stems from presumptions based upon sexual orientation or gender then it becomes a decision not to be 'safe' because contraception fails, but ultimately because of prejudice.
    Absolutely, 100% incorrect. And you repeating it doesn't make it so. I may only apply it to one gender because of my orientation, that doesn't mean I don't believe it applies equally to everybody. That's like saying a hospital is misandrist because it has only ever treated women in its maternity wards. It's patently absurd

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  • #103
    The Corinthian
    Closed Accounts Posts: 19,777 ✭✭✭✭The Corinthian


    28064212 wrote: »
    Anybody claiming that is either ignorant of reality, or a deity. Nobody can claim with 100% certainty that heterosexual intercourse will not result in a pregnancy.
    I never said they could and, indeed, even choosing not to take their word and using a condom as well won't get you the 100% either. Still doesn't address the point of trust though.
    How important is it? Will it affect me? If it's very important, and will affect me a lot, yes I will check. Especially when my partner has no way of knowing the definitive result of that task.
    Never get married then is my advice. No 100% there either.
    Absolutely, 100% incorrect. And you repeating it doesn't make it so.
    Neither does simply saying "100% incorrect" make it so.


  • #104
    28064212
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,815 ✭✭✭✭28064212


    The Corinthian wrote: »
    I never said they could and, indeed, even choosing not to take their word and using a condom as well won't get you the 100% either. Still doesn't address the point of trust though.
    "Hey, come for a drive with me. I won't crash, I promise. Hey, why are you putting on a seat belt!? Don't you trust me?" - Your argument in a nutshell
    The Corinthian wrote: »
    Neither does simply saying "100% incorrect" make it so.
    Did you just stop reading my post after "make it so"? There was a whole explanation after that sentence which explicitly refutes your entire argument

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  • #105
    The Corinthian
    Closed Accounts Posts: 19,777 ✭✭✭✭The Corinthian


    28064212 wrote: »
    "Hey, come for a drive with me. I won't crash, I promise. Hey, why are you putting on a seat belt!? Don't you trust me?" - Your argument in a nutshell
    Then you clearly did not understand my argument.

    You are completely right in saying that 'to be sure' you should take care of such things yourself - Vertrauen ist gut, Kontrolle ist besser, as the Germans say. But as with this expression it is based upon the premise that you should never fully trust anyone. Ever.

    Certainly, if the stakes are high - undesired pregnancy within even a stable relationship - there's an incentive not to trust fully, but if that's the case you'll have to agree that the stakes of marriage failing are high enough to warrant the same caution to the point (given there are not real 'outs' in law) of not marrying. Do you not agree, or is marriage an exception to the rule?

    But all of which doesn't change the fact that your decision is based on lack of trust and in the case of contraception, this lack of trust tends to be based on either on a question of competence or motivations of the other party, which given either could be taken to be driven from their gender, is pretty misogynistic.


  • #106
    28064212
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,815 ✭✭✭✭28064212


    The Corinthian wrote: »
    Then you clearly did not understand my argument.
    • "Hey, come for a drive with me. I won't crash, I promise. Hey, why are you putting on a seat belt!? Don't you trust me?"
    • "Hey, have sex with me. I won't get pregnant, I promise. Hey, why are you putting on a condom!? Don't you trust me?"
    Explain the difference between these two statements, both said between a couple. In both cases, the speaker is making a claim they don't have absolute control over. In both cases, I can take an action that will reduce the possibility of a bad outcome. So wearing a seatbelt means I don't trust my partner?
    The Corinthian wrote: »
    But all of which doesn't change the fact that your decision is based on lack of trust and in the case of contraception, this lack of trust tends to be based on either on a question of competence or motivations of the other party, which given either could be taken to be driven from their gender, is pretty misogynistic.
    My decision is made on the efficacy of contraception.

    And again: I may only apply it to one gender because of my orientation, that doesn't mean I don't believe it applies equally to everybody. That's like saying a hospital is misandrist because it has only ever treated women in its maternity wards. It's patently absurd

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  • #107
    The Corinthian
    Closed Accounts Posts: 19,777 ✭✭✭✭The Corinthian


    28064212 wrote: »
      So wearing a seatbelt means I don't trust my partner?
    Clearly yes, you don't. You may have good reason not to if they were to come out with such an assertion, but ultimately you don't trust their word on it.


  • #108
    King Bernard
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 40 ✭King Bernard


    The Corinthian wrote: »
    You were responding to a scenario where the man agrees to unprotected sex "after being assured that protection is in place" though, thus to dismiss this assurance is essentially a vote of no trust in the woman's competence or agenda.

    It might, in practical terms, be the smart thing to do, but it also is based upon the suspicion that the woman may be looking to get pregnant, thus you should not trust her word. And that, as a generalization, is misogynistic.

    Mysogyny is hatred of women, just because you believe a minority might be deceitful doesn't mean you hate women in general.


  • #109
    The Corinthian
    Closed Accounts Posts: 19,777 ✭✭✭✭The Corinthian


    King Bernard wrote: »
    Mysogyny is hatred of women, just because you believe a minority might be deceitful doesn't mean you hate women in general.
    That's sooo nineties...


  • #110
    Jonny Blaze
    Closed Accounts Posts: 753 ✭✭✭Jonny Blaze


    Interesting article I thought of while reading through this thread.

    http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2014/05/theres-no-such-thing-as-a-slut/371773/

    It explores the behavior of college age american women surrounding their sexual habits and discusses how they manage their image when it comes to sexual activity.

    Not sure what it says about the debate but an interesting read though.


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