Irish Rail - Handling of Complaints

Shelflife · 14-06-2014 11:41AM

VWD8 wrote: »

Sorry but you are being allowed to travel for Free. IE have to give priority to fare paying passengers in the interests of fairness.The fare paying passengers are also helping to subsidise your free travel.

Free travel is not the issue here. The op wanted a seat and sat in what he believed to be an unreserved seat. He did the same on his return journey. Due to IR inefficiency the seats he chose were actually reserved and do he had to go and look for seats. Maybe at 73 they aren't so good on their feet and it's a hassle for them to change.

It's not unreasonable to expect reserved seats to be clearly marked, and it's not unreasonable to expect a reply when you write to a business with a complaint.

dowlingm · 14-06-2014 02:49PM

If the poster above went to the media the Information Minister would be on to say it's their fault for not reserving their own seats...

foggy_lad · 15-06-2014 02:01AM

Losty Dublin wrote: »

I understand that, hence suggesting reserving seats on board the train. While you may run the risk of somebody else sitting in them, you will have the booking for same in event of dispute.

The problem is that on intermediate stops in particular reservations should be listed/notified above the seat from the beginning of the journey such as say in thurles reserved from thurles should be displayed from cork or from Dublin for a seat that is reserved from thurles in either direction, but what happens is there is no indication until the train stops in or leaves thurles when the reservation then shows.

If a passenger boards and takes a seat in Dublin or cork and the warning/notice is there that the seat is reserved from thurles then fair warning is given but if there is no notice of the reservation until the stop then that passenger has every right to keep that seat for their complete journey as the company have failed to give them proper notice they they may have to move out of the seat in thurles.

Jamie2k9 · 15-06-2014 12:32PM

The problem is that on intermediate stops in particular reservations should be listed/notified above the seat from the beginning of the journey such as say in thurles reserved from thurles should be displayed from cork or from Dublin for a seat that is reserved from thurles in either direction, but what happens is there is no indication until the train stops in or leaves thurles when the reservation then shows.

They have this system already in place.

Any passenger sitting in pre booked seats needs to be given a fine of €100, and it won't take long for people to get the message.

D.L.R. · 15-06-2014 12:35PM

Irish Rail - Handling of Complaints

Hilly Bill · 15-06-2014 01:20PM

Its a problem with the wi-fi , it should come up when the driver inputs the train id but it doesnt always work. It can be done manually but sometimes it fails or staff dont get enough time due to train being late onto the platform .

No Pants · 15-06-2014 04:13PM

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

They have this system already in place.

Any passenger sitting in pre booked seats needs to be given a fine of €100, and it won't take long for people to get the message.

It's obviously not working, so it would be easy to appeal such a fine and cost IE even more money.

Jamie2k9 · 15-06-2014 05:43PM

No Pants wrote: »

It's obviously not working, so it would be easy to appeal such a fine and cost IE even more money.

Sorry but how is it not working, the signs clearly state for example if I board in Waterford, some seats will say Reserved from Kilkenny.

The only grounds to appeal fines would if no reservations were displayed when the train departed from a terminus however its very easy to check if they were or no as there is lots of CCTV.

No Pants · 15-06-2014 07:10PM

Hilly Bill wrote: »

Its a problem with the wi-fi , it should come up when the driver inputs the train id but it doesnt always work. It can be done manually but sometimes it fails or staff dont get enough time due to train being late onto the platform .

Hmm, "it doesn't always work" he says. That suggests to me that it isn't working.

schemingbohemia · 16-06-2014 10:31AM

Hilly Bill wrote: »

Its a problem with the wi-fi , it should come up when the driver inputs the train id but it doesnt always work. It can be done manually but sometimes it fails or staff dont get enough time due to train being late onto the platform .

It's a problem with trains being left open to board by people before the driver is anywhere near the train. So is it drivers not arriving in proper time for the journey or other staff allowing people onto trains when the driver isn't there or both? Whichever, it's not the passengers fault.

The issue arises mostly with those using free travel passes or those buying at the station, should there not be a notice telling these people to travel in coach A and not leave that open to seat bookings in advance, depending on load factors?

Hilly Bill · 16-06-2014 11:15AM

No Pants wrote: »

Hmm, "it doesn't always work" he says. That suggests to me that it isn't working.

It does work but not always as it should.

Hilly Bill · 16-06-2014 11:33AM

schemingbohemia wrote: »

It's a problem with trains being left open to board by people before the driver is anywhere near the train. So is it drivers not arriving in proper time for the journey or other staff allowing people onto trains when the driver isn't there or both? Whichever, it's not the passengers fault.

The issue arises mostly with those using free travel passes or those buying at the station, should there not be a notice telling these people to travel in coach A and not leave that open to seat bookings in advance, depending on load factors?

When a train is left open then the train id would have already been entered and reservations should come on above the seats.
There is never a question of it being the passengers fault if the seat is not clearly marked as reserved. There are some that will sit in seats that are clearly marked as reserved anyway and get annoyed when asked to move.
Anyone with a ticket for a train should be allowed to sit anywhere on that train regardless what type of ticket they have if the seat is not reserved for someone else.
There are also those that have reserved a seat and choose to sit in a different seat altogether.

Jem72 · 16-06-2014 12:02PM

This issue with reservations not appearing is a real pain for long-distance commuters as well as we never have seat reservations. It is mostly an issue where the train arrives in late as there is a general scrum to board and then you are left on a lottery as to whether or not the seat is reserved.

It would be very helpful to regulars if they consistently left one or two cars unreserved. You can refuse to move on the 20-minute rule if somebody turns up demanding their seat 5 minutes before departure.

It would also be very helpful if there was a token charge for the seat reservation when booking on-line. I would think that a high enough percentage of people ignore their seat reservation because it is included for free.

Emme · 16-06-2014 12:33PM

VWD8 wrote: »

Sorry but you are being allowed to travel for Free. IE have to give priority to fare paying passengers in the interests of fairness.The fare paying passengers are also helping to subsidise your free travel.

I don't have a problem with pensioners traveling for free as many use the train to get to and from hospital appointments. If they have mobility or health problems they should get seats regardless of whether they booked one or not.

However it can be annoying when you get large groups of "young" pensioners (often more agile, less tired and in better health than the average exhausted stressed out commuter) taking over whole carriages while barely conscious commuters have to stand for the entire journey before doing a stressful days work to pay for these very people's privilege to sit in taxpayer funded train seats. The trains were inundated with such people for the Bloom garden festival and all traveling on already overcrowded peak time trains. Some of these travellers weren't inclined to move their legs out of the aisles to let standees stand comfortably or allow those vacating the train to pass. This probably occurs more on trains from the worse serviced lines such as Waterford. Passengers were left standing at Newbridge on at least one of those days - it was the 7.10 train from Waterford.

Emme · 16-06-2014 12:45PM

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Sorry but how is it not working, the signs clearly state for example if I board in Waterford, some seats will say Reserved from Kilkenny.

The train could well be full before Kilkenny - what happens then? People have to try to find their reserved seats on a packed train with people more than likely sitting there. Reservations might work on a relatively quiet train but some train lines are not suited to reserving seats.

Jamie2k9 · 16-06-2014 06:46PM

Emme wrote: »

The train could well be full before Kilkenny - what happens then? People have to try to find their reserved seats on a packed train with people more than likely sitting there. Reservations might work on a relatively quiet train but some train lines are not suited to reserving seats.

I fully understand however online bookings come first, all other tickets followed by social welfare. Generally they do add capacity if online bookings are very strong however standing if perfectly fine for welfare passes and walk up tickets however overall annual holders should for the most part have seats on services.

Hilly Bill · 17-06-2014 12:52AM

Its simple, one carriage designated as a reserve carriage per service like coach G on the Belfast service. If a train is packed and seats unreserved in the designated carriage ,then those seats would be free to sit in on a first come first served basis after the departure of the train .

Pretzill · 17-06-2014 01:18AM

The reserved signs are really hit and miss but shouldn't be - it happened to me recently boarding in Dublin and there was someone seating in the seat - no indication it was reserved except the seat number is on my ticket - anyway the person looked comfy enough so I just sat elsewhere. It can be embarrassing to move people if the sign above the seat isn't lit.

Hilly Bill · 17-06-2014 02:40AM

Pretzill wrote: »

The reserved signs are really hit and miss but shouldn't be - it happened to me recently boarding in Dublin and there was someone seating in the seat - no indication it was reserved except the seat number is on my ticket - anyway the person looked comfy enough so I just sat elsewhere. It can be embarrassing to move people if the sign above the seat isn't lit.

Thats part of the problem though, people too uncomfortable to move someone sitting in their seats. Would you move someone sitting in your seat at a show where your seats wouldnt be marked as reserved?

Ive seen reservation signs light but no actual seat there

.

schemingbohemia · 17-06-2014 10:44AM

Hilly Bill wrote: »

When a train is left open then the train id would have already been entered and reservations should come on above the seats.
There is never a question of it being the passengers fault if the seat is not clearly marked as reserved. There are some that will sit in seats that are clearly marked as reserved anyway and get annoyed when asked to move.
Anyone with a ticket for a train should be allowed to sit anywhere on that train regardless what type of ticket they have if the seat is not reserved for someone else.
There are also those that have reserved a seat and choose to sit in a different seat altogether.

What if, as happened to me, the train is left open, the train ID has not been entered so no reservation names come up but I know my seat number. I sat in Carriage A seat 21 (or whatever), another ten minutes go by, the train ID is entered and the carriages change! Mine went from A to C, queue a scramble of people from one carriage to another.

It's laziness on behalf of staff, either driver or gate staff, not passengers.

Simple solution, don't let passengers on until the Train ID is entered correctly.

Hilly Bill · 18-06-2014 10:49PM

schemingbohemia wrote: »

What if, as happened to me, the train is left open, the train ID has not been entered so no reservation names come up but I know my seat number. I sat in Carriage A seat 21 (or whatever), another ten minutes go by, the train ID is entered and the carriages change! Mine went from A to C, queue a scramble of people from one carriage to another.

It's laziness on behalf of staff, either driver or gate staff, not passengers.

Simple solution, don't let passengers on until the Train ID is entered correctly.

Was coach A displayed on the side of the train when you boarded?

Laziness????? far from it. Why would it be laziness by the passengers?

What if the reservation system had failed, do you want the passengers to wait until the departure time to board or would you prefer passengers to get on while they can to get a seat?

Five Lamps · 18-06-2014 11:07PM

FakeSheikh wrote: »

Hey all, just to give a quick update. I have received another email from IrishRail and they're still not budging.

At this stage it looks like I'll have to try getting a charge-back on my credit card. I'll let you know how it goes.

Get on to them on Twitter and link to this page.

I can't understand the logic of not allowing reserved seat holders on right up to the last minute as their seat is, surprisingly, reserved. Irish Rail had their cake and eat it here.

schemingbohemia · 19-06-2014 10:38AM

Hilly Bill wrote: »

Was coach A displayed on the side of the train when you boarded?

Laziness????? far from it. Why would it be laziness by the passengers?

What if the reservation system had failed, do you want the passengers to wait until the departure time to board or would you prefer passengers to get on while they can to get a seat?

No, I want IE to be organised enough that they have the reservation signs lit up before people are allowed on the train, it's not really too much to ask is it?

If the system fails, then you have a plan in place with staff telling people to sit in coach A if they don't have a reserved seat (or whatever), and they bring back the paper reserved signs and put them on the reserved seats, it's called customer service.

Jem72 · 19-06-2014 01:48PM

I can't understand either why they don't let you board right up until the last minute with a booking - that is the whole point of booking a seat. If you turn up 20 minutes early for almost any Sligo train, you will get a seat.

However, given how unreliable the system is, they should just give up on accepting bookings until they can make it work. The staff numbers just aren't there to provide the required level of customer service to manage reservations. On the Cork services where there is a train host, it might be OK, but on other lines, there is no possibility of having somebody go through the train with little paper tickets.

If Irish Rail doesn't have the time to key in a train ID, how are they going to have the time to print out 50 tickets and attach them to the appropriate seats?

Hilly Bill · 19-06-2014 02:36PM

schemingbohemia wrote: »

No, I want IE to be organised enough that they have the reservation signs lit up before people are allowed on the train, it's not really too much to ask is it?

If the system fails, then you have a plan in place with staff telling people to sit in coach A if they don't have a reserved seat (or whatever), and they bring back the paper reserved signs and put them on the reserved seats, it's called customer service.

All fine and dandy from a keyboard point of view and if there was plenty of staff to enforce it but its not always possible if that person has more important things to be doing like looking after wheelchair passengers or visually impaired passengers. Some people are more important to look after than someone who needs to be led by their hand to a reserved seat.
A train arrives late onto a platform for whatever reason and a platform full of people get ready to board, you tell the passengers that they cant board because you need to check if the reservations are up then prepare for a mouthful of abuse. If the name are not up then stand by for more abuse when you tell them that they cant board because you have to go and get 40 blank cards and fill the names on them and then put them on the seats.
Once those doors open then you havent a hope of making sure certain people get on a certain carriage only. Do you think the station controller will delay the train while you play around with the reservations and delay the train .
Regardless of the names being shown above seats there are those who will ignore it and sit in them seats and refuse to move anyway.

JayRoc · 20-06-2014 12:25AM

Hilly Bill wrote: »

Thats part of the problem though, people too uncomfortable to move someone sitting in their seats. Would you move someone sitting in your seat at a show where your seats wouldnt be marked as reserved?

If there were other seats free for me to sit in?
And the person sitting in the seat I'd reserved had no way of knowing since it wasn't displayed?

What kind of gob****e would try and move someone out of their seat under those circumstances??

And the cinema analogy is way off the mark.
EVERYONE is given a selected seat....or no-one is

Hilly Bill · 21-06-2014 12:27AM

JayRoc wrote: »

If there were other seats free for me to sit in?
And the person sitting in the seat I'd reserved had no way of knowing since it wasn't displayed?

What kind of gob****e would try and move someone out of their seat under those circumstances??

And the cinema analogy is way off the mark.
EVERYONE is given a selected seat....or no-one is

No its not. Someone could move seats to get a better view which does happen. Would you move them or go and sit at the back?
Its simple and i cant understand why some people travelling cant grasp it.
If i have a ticket for a certain seat in a certain carriage then i'll sit in it. If the names are not displayed and the seat is occupied then i'l tell them that i have that seat reserved and show them my ticket with the seat number .
It doesnt matter who it is be they old, young, or pregnant they will have to move. There are a certain ticket holders that think that their ticket allows them to sit anywhere they want regardless if the seats are clearly marked or not.

foggy_lad · 21-06-2014 09:03AM

Hilly Bill wrote: »

[/B]

No its not. Someone could move seats to get a better view which does happen. Would you move them or go and sit at the back?
Its simple and i cant understand why some people travelling cant grasp it.
If i have a ticket for a certain seat in a certain carriage then i'll sit in it. If the names are not displayed and the seat is occupied then i'l tell them that i have that seat reserved and show them my ticket with the seat number .
It doesnt matter who it is be they old, young, or pregnant they will have to move. There are a certain ticket holders that think that their ticket allows them to sit anywhere they want regardless if the seats are clearly marked or not.

When you reserve a seat there is no guarantee you will get that or any seat!

If your reserved seat is not shown to others as being reserved for you then any other person can legally sit in that seat.

The problem is that Irish Rail are so inconsistent with the reservations system that it rarely works properly and when it does work it only partly works. I have been on many trains with the seats from the previous journey still shown as reserved! or where reserved seats don't light up until after the stop they are reserved from! People can say this is due to X, Y or Z human or other fault etc but at the end of the journey the dam thing has not worked and passengers(whether they have a reservation or not) should not be penalised for that!

There is a facility in place for passengers to get a refund of the reservation fees paid if a seat can not be found on the train if their reserved seat is taken or if the reservation system does not work!

The reservations systen rarly works and until it is scrapped or sorted out then no passenger can be penalised or forced to find another seat if they have legitimately taken a seat that is not shown as reserved!

There is no obligation on any passenger to leave any seat which was not highlighted as reserved at least 20 minutes before departure and certainly no obligation when any reservation does not appear until the train has reached the first or subsequent stops!

Irish rail should fix their reservations which quite frankly are a disgrace but better than they were instead of trying to alienate the few remaining passengers they have!

mickydoomsux · 21-06-2014 09:18AM

foggy_lad wrote: »

Irish rail should fix their reservations which quite frankly are a disgrace but better than they were instead of trying to alienate the few remaining paying passengers they have!

Fixed that for you

Passenger numbers are up anyway. That was always going to happen with the country being out of recession i suppose.

Hilly Bill · 21-06-2014 10:09AM

foggy_lad wrote: »

When you reserve a seat there is no guarantee you will get that or any seat!

If your reserved seat is not shown to others as being reserved for you then any other person can legally sit in that seat.

The problem is that Irish Rail are so inconsistent with the reservations system that it rarely works properly and when it does work it only partly works. I have been on many trains with the seats from the previous journey still shown as reserved! or where reserved seats don't light up until after the stop they are reserved from! People can say this is due to X, Y or Z human or other fault etc but at the end of the journey the dam thing has not worked and passengers(whether they have a reservation or not) should not be penalised for that!

There is a facility in place for passengers to get a refund of the reservation fees paid if a seat can not be found on the train if their reserved seat is taken or if the reservation system does not work!

The reservations systen rarly works and until it is scrapped or sorted out then no passenger can be penalised or forced to find another seat if they have legitimately taken a seat that is not shown as reserved!

There is no obligation on any passenger to leave any seat which was not highlighted as reserved at least 20 minutes before departure and certainly no obligation when any reservation does not appear until the train has reached the first or subsequent stops!

Irish rail should fix their reservations which quite frankly are a disgrace but better than they were instead of trying to alienate the few remaining passengers they have!

They can legally sit in it until the rightful owner claims it.

There is no alienating anyone foggy.

When it works Foggy, it fully works.

Irish Rail - Handling of Complaints

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