Foal beaten to death, then set alight by gang of kids in Galway

Awkward Badger · 19-06-2014 07:00PM

sup_dude wrote: »

We are omnivores. For those of you who don't know what that means, it involves eating meat and vegetation.
Killing for fun (through causing immense amounts of suffering) and killing for food are completely different and killing for food is not relevant in a thread about a horse that was beaten to death.

We are whatever we want to be. Plenty of people don't eat meat. There is no need to eat meat and this argument that humans are animals and as animals we kill and eat other animals is nothing but a simplistic justification for doing whatever it is you want to do regardless of how it affects other things.

This thread is about an incident of animal cruelty. I don't think its much of a tangent to discuss a wider issue of animal cruelty in it or how its seen. The meat industry and the demand to eat meat undoubtedly is a huge cause of animal cruelty. But if its going to cause problems or take away from the tragic and cruel nature of this particular crime I'll drop it.

Ave Sodalis · 19-06-2014 07:06PM

Pugsly wrote: »

We are whatever we want to be. Plenty of people don't eat meat. There is no need to eat meat and this argument that humans are animals and as animals we kill and eat other animals is nothing but a simplistic justification for doing whatever it is you want to do regardless of how it affects other things.

This thread is about an incident of animal cruelty. I don't think its much of a tangent to discuss a wider issue of animal cruelty in it or how its seen. The meat industry and the demand to eat meat undoubtedly is a huge cause of animal cruelty.

People can choose not to eat meat, and that's fine but it's not an argument to say that humans are animals so eat meat. Plenty of animals are herbivores. We are not. We an omnivores. There is no justification for anything, we are what we are. Yes there are alternatives to meat but that doesn't change the fact that we are omnivores and we are designed to eat a certain amount of meat.
Sure there's cruelty in the meat production sector but I do not believe in Ireland, that it's as wide spread as you think. Any animal I know gone for slaughter has been dead before it even hits the ground, so very little suffering. This cannot be compared to a horse that was beaten to death. If we beat our animals to death for food, you would have a point. However, we don't.

shruikan2553 · 19-06-2014 07:08PM

I knew my butcher was going out the back to punch up some steak. That's why they're so tender.

darkpagandeath · 19-06-2014 07:09PM

Pugsly wrote: »

We are whatever we want to be. Plenty of people don't eat meat. There is no need to eat meat and this argument that humans are animals and as animals we kill and eat other animals is nothing but a simplistic justification for doing whatever it is you want to do regardless of how it affects other things.

This thread is about an incident of animal cruelty. I don't think its much of a tangent to discuss a wider issue of animal cruelty in it or how its seen. The meat industry and the demand to eat meat undoubtedly is a huge cause of animal cruelty. But if its going to cause problems or take away from the tragic and cruel nature of this particular crime I'll drop it.

No it's not maybe you have heard a few Scientist over the years saying we are omnivores. And Tbh this incident is slightly different to animals processed for human consumption. Please enlighten us how our bodies digest cellulose if we don’t need to eat meat.

whisky_galore · 19-06-2014 07:09PM

Can we not talk about the wanton cruelty of the thread title and not indulge in whataboutery?

Zzippy · 19-06-2014 07:12PM

Joe Duffy.. wrote: »

Rahoon/ Westside/ Doughiska.

Seriously? You clearly have no idea what you're talking about.

OneEightSeven · 19-06-2014 07:13PM

--LOS-- wrote: »

I'm so sick of all these threads. How can you expect people to treat animals with respect when so much of our lives revolve around the unnecessary torture and killing of animals.

It's hypocritical to care about them for one thing and not for others.

So yeah, another isolated instance of animal cruelty against an animal that people generally decide to like, whoopdeedooo

Farming and harvesting involves killing insects. When you're spraying pesticides on your veggies, you're killing insects and when you're harvesting grains, you're destroying ecosystems for animals.

SAVE THE CATERPILLARS, MAN!!

--LOS-- · 19-06-2014 07:13PM

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

Is this a veggie thing? To be honest, if you can't see a difference between beating an animal to death for fun and slaughtering it for food then I can't see how anyone can expect to have a proper discussion with you.

It's a respect thing, it's a moral thing.

Both are unnecessary, one is a lot more prevalent than the other.

sup_dude wrote: »

This isn't a case of killing for food and nutrition... This was an act for entertainment purposes and causing as much suffering as possible. They are two seperate issues, the former is irrelevant here

Both are unnecessary so same thing.

Lu Tze wrote: »

The big revelation comes when it turns out she has some leather products, belt or shoes or some such, which leads to the logic that its ok to peel animals, just not to eat the insides

I don't own or purpose or use anything that contains any animal, but thanks for the judgement.

Scrappy600 wrote: »

I believe your soapbox may be in the wrong location.....

Where would it be better off? In the veggie forum preaching to the choir?

Pugsly wrote: »

I think its a lot more complex than that and I don't think it really lends to your argument to approach it in this way. I think there is an argument to be made though along the lines of what you say. Animal cruelty is tragic and horrific and people see that in some situations but it can also be easily dismissed in others.

Don't really understand where you're coming from. There's no point saying things in a nicey nicey way, it's the truth and it's easy to be offended by the truth but just realise that that's what peoples reactions are here.

This is where I gave up quoting.

Little CuChulainn · 19-06-2014 07:14PM

Pugsly wrote: »

No you eat it because you want to eat it and enjoy it, its not necessary. Its not that hard to find healthy alternatives to meat either.

That's your opinion. One I do not agree with.

Pugsly wrote: »

So your point that anyone who doesn't differentiate between killing for enjoyment and killing for food isn't worth talking to just highlights the fact you're not really likely to be on the other end of any meaningful discussion yourself anyway. But like flies to shít people will thank your worthless post in their droves no doubt.

Obviously it's worthless because you disagree with it. :rolleyes: God forbid your dogma should not be accepted by others. The reason my post was thanked was because most people understand the difference between intentionally inflicting pain and death for amusement and killing something for food. You obviously don't.

Joe Duffy.. · 19-06-2014 07:15PM

Zzippy wrote: »

Seriously? You clearly have no idea what you're talking about.

What makes you say that?

Ave Sodalis · 19-06-2014 07:15PM

--LOS-- wrote: »

Both are unnecessary so same thing.

I really wouldn't say eating meat is unnecessary however that is my opinion. It's in no league what so ever to the necessity of beating a foal to death.

--LOS-- · 19-06-2014 07:18PM

sup_dude wrote: »

I really wouldn't say eating meat is unnecessary however that is my opinion. It's in no league what so ever to the necessity of beating a foal to death.

well it wasn't my opinion, it's a fact

risteard7 · 19-06-2014 07:19PM

I'm sick of these stories!! Fukn travellers again. They should be banned from having horses! Absolute scum a hateful community!

Go on go ahead ban me for speaking my mind and the truth!

Little CuChulainn · 19-06-2014 07:19PM

--LOS-- wrote: »

It's a respect thing, it's a moral thing.

Both are unnecessary, one is a lot more prevalent than the other.

Both are unnecessary so same thing.

I don't own or purpose or use anything that contains any animal, but thanks for the judgement.

Where would it be better off? In the veggie forum preaching to the choir?

This is where I gave up quoting.

So a vegan thing then? Are your principles limited to people are do you apply them to all omnivores?

darkpagandeath · 19-06-2014 07:20PM

--LOS-- wrote: »

It's a respect thing, it's a moral thing.

Both are unnecessary, one is a lot more prevalent than the other.

Both are unnecessary so same thing.

I don't own or purpose or use anything that contains any animal, but thanks for the judgement.

Where would it be better off? In the veggie forum preaching to the choir?

Don't really understand where you're coming from. There's no point saying things in a nicey nicey way, it's the truth and it's easy to be offended by the truth but just realise that that's what peoples reactions are here.

This is where I gave up quoting.

You do know that millions and millions of tones of insects are killed to produce your vegetarian alternatives infinitely more than any amount of cattle or farmed animals. Little hard to see the moral high ground here.

--LOS-- wrote: »

well it wasn't my opinion, it's a fact

Your body cannot digest cellulose if you ate only vegetable alternative and no protein supplemented food you would die because you could not digest the nutrients fast enough to support your metabolism. That is a fact.

Awkward Badger · 19-06-2014 07:22PM

sup_dude wrote: »

People can choose not to eat meat, and that's fine but it's not an argument to say that humans are animals so eat meat. Plenty of animals are herbivores. We are not. We an omnivores. There is no justification for anything, we are what we are. Yes there are alternatives to meat but that doesn't change the fact that we are omnivores and we are designed to eat a certain amount of meat.
Sure there's cruelty in the meat production sector but I do not believe in Ireland, that it's as wide spread as you think. Any animal I know gone for slaughter has been dead before it even hits the ground, so very little suffering. This cannot be compared to a horse that was beaten to death. If we beat our animals to death for food, you would have a point. However, we don't.

We are not designed to eat meat, we are not designed to do anything, we simply are the way we are. And we have the capability to eat all manner of things. Which means we have options when it comes to our diet. We choose what we want to eat and you don't have to choose meat.

I think its a lot more widespread than you think. I think in even the most stringently regulated industry there will always be those who will seek to squeeze out more profit. And in an industry like the meat industry that often comes at the expense of the welfare of animals. And is that even that strictly regulated and enforced here ?

You also have to factor in the meat coming from outside Ireland. Frozen meats, packaged food etc. There is a reason you can buy meat so cheap. Its because its produced very cheaply.

And the point is people are horrified at an animal being cruelly treated and killed in some situations but wouldn't care less in others. So in that sense it is comparable. Its the abuse and death of an animal for human enjoyment. Which in my opinion is wrong regardless of the animal or situation or mindset of whoever it is that feels justified in doing it.

Ave Sodalis · 19-06-2014 07:22PM

--LOS-- wrote: »

well it wasn't my opinion, it's a fact

It really isn't a fact. Yes, there are alternatives. No, not all of those alternatives are as good for you as meat. One of the most popular meat alternatives is soy. Soy, however, seriously messes with your hormone levels.

Little CuChulainn · 19-06-2014 07:25PM

Pugsly wrote: »

We are not designed to eat meat, we are not designed to do anything, we simply are the way we are. And we have the capability to eat all manner of things. Which means we have options when it comes to our diet. We choose what we want to eat and you don't have to choose meat.

I think its a lot more widespread than you think. I think in even the most stringently regulated industry there will always be those who will seek to squeeze out more profit. And in an industry like the meat industry that often comes at the expense of the welfare of animals. And is that even that strictly regulated and enforced here ?

You also have to factor in the meat coming from outside Ireland. Frozen meats, packaged food etc. There is a reason you can buy meat so cheap. Its because its produced very cheaply.

And the point is people are horrified at an animal being cruelly treated and killed in some situations but wouldn't care less in others. So in that sense it is comparable. Its the abuse and death of an animal for human enjoyment. Which in my opinion is wrong regardless of the animal or situation or mindset of whoever it is that feels justified in doing it.

You're equating a lack of knowledge of the origin of your meat with deliberate animal cruelty. Do you actually not see a difference?

Super-Rush · 19-06-2014 07:26PM

Why didn't all these witnesses do something?

Ave Sodalis · 19-06-2014 07:27PM

Pugsly wrote: »

We are not designed to eat meat, we are not designed to do anything, we simply are the way we are. And we have the capability to eat all manner of things. Which means we have options when it comes to our diet. We choose what we want to eat and you don't have to choose meat.

I think its a lot more widespread than you think. I think in even the most stringently regulated industry there will always be those who will seek to squeeze out more profit. And in an industry like the meat industry that often comes at the expense of the welfare of animals. And is that even that strictly regulated and enforced here ?

You also have to factor in the meat coming from outside Ireland. Frozen meats, packaged food etc. There is a reason you can buy meat so cheap. Its because its produced very cheaply.

And the point is people are horrified at an animal being cruelly treated and killed in some situations but wouldn't care less in others. So in that sense it is comparable. Its the abuse and death of an animal for human enjoyment. Which in my opinion is wrong regardless of the animal or situation or mindset of whoever it is that feels justified in doing it.

We are designed to eat meat. Same way as some animals are designed to only eat vegetation and some are only designed to eat meat which is why the digestive systems of each of the three are similar (i.e. omnivorous mammals have similar digestive systems to other omnivorous mammals)

I am not denying that there is cruelty in the meat sector. There most definitely is. However, I highly doubt you have ever been in a butchers if you think animals spend hours dying.

Roquentin · 19-06-2014 07:29PM

Super-Rush wrote: »

Why didn't all these witnesses do something?

You know who you dealing with in castle park....... a lot of trouble........ it would be the garda who would have to deal with it

Ave Sodalis · 19-06-2014 07:30PM

Roquentin wrote: »

You know who you dealing with in castle park....... a lot of trouble........ it would be the garda who would have to deal with it

And they won't

My name is URL · 19-06-2014 07:30PM

sup_dude wrote: »

We are designed to eat meat.

I'm a meat eater, but what exactly is your statement based on?

darkpagandeath · 19-06-2014 07:30PM

I love this 1st world attitude I chose what food I eat, Unfortunately not everyone has that choice. Come back to us after living in an area with very little to eat and tell us the benefits of a veg only diet..

tayto lover · 19-06-2014 07:31PM

Cowards did this and cowards looked on.

Awkward Badger · 19-06-2014 07:31PM

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

That's your opinion. One I do not agree with.

Its not my opinion its a simple fact. Eating meat is a choice and there are healthy alternatives to meat. What do you disagree with ? The fact you have the ability to make decisions ?

Obviously it's worthless because you disagree with it. :rolleyes: God forbid your dogma should not be accepted by others. The reason my post was thanked was because most people understand the difference between intentionally inflicting pain and death for amusement and killing something for food. You obviously don't.

Its worthless because its simply dismissing someone's opinion by saying they are not worth discussing anything with. The reason is was thanked is because you were being a dick to someone who most people will disagree with. Rather than making any attempt to understand or discuss anything. People don't like thinking, they like talking and being right.

Tar.Aldarion · 19-06-2014 07:32PM

My name is URL wrote: »

I'm a meat eater, but what exactly is your statement based on?

They show a lack of understanding. Evolution and all that jazz. Populations bodies adapt to what they eat, people don't eat a way because they are "designed" to.

Roquentin · 19-06-2014 07:32PM

sup_dude wrote: »

And they won't

True. They wont get involved unless it was huge.

We should set up a petition to demand justice

Ave Sodalis · 19-06-2014 07:34PM

My name is URL wrote: »

I'm a meat eater, but what exactly is your statement based on?

First and most basically, we are omnivores, as stated. Based on this, look at our digestive system compared to that of a herbivore or even a carnivore. Different, yes? And yet we share some similarities. Herbivores don't have canines (except the odd male, used to fight) but they do have the ability to digest cellulose. Carnivores have canines, as do we, but they don't have anything to digest vegetation. We have the same digestive system as other omnivores. Our entire system is based around eating meat and vegetation.

--LOS-- · 19-06-2014 07:34PM

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

So a vegan thing then? Are your principles limited to people are do you apply them to all omnivores?

It's not a 'vegan thing'. My values apply to all of my life, I respect people the same as I respect all animals, I don't discriminate against any animals, be they human or non-human. I know people find that strange but it's pretty logical. I just find it a little hard to relate to the concern for one animal while using animals in other ways is fine.

darkpagandeath wrote: »

You do know that millions and millions of tones of insects are killed to produce your vegetarian alternatives infinitely more than any amount of cattle or farmed animals. Little hard to see the moral high ground here.

ok that's a misunderstanding and a common one at that so I'll happily clear that up.

This is simply not true.

1. Most of the grain we grow is fed to animals, so that we can eat the animals, thus a waste of grain, instead of eating it ourselves. I think when people think of meat, they forget about all the plants it took to make that meat. We consume more plants through animal consumption than by eating vegetarian/vegan :P

2. There is a difference between accidental killing and purposeful killing, heck we all know that. So if you're concerned about the accidental killing of insects, rodents, snakes etc through harvesting of plants, then you should be especially concerned about animal consumption, since that is what is using the most plants, causing the most accidental deaths!

Foal beaten to death, then set alight by gang of kids in Galway

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