As a society are we getting value for money?

steddyeddy · 17-06-2014 03:07PM #1

Yesterday I had to get the bus from Donnybrook to Dunlaoghaire and was charged 3.05 each way for the privilege. This is a relatively expensive country but I wouldn't mind that if we got good return for our money. The problem is we usually don't. The bus service is terrible, the drivers can be rude and the buses don't appear to follow a timetable :S.

That's just a small example but ultimately I wonder it's a microcosm of bigger issues. For instance considering the amount we pump into health, education or housing are we getting value for money?

Personally I think there is massive waste in our society and we definitely don't get good value for our money. The three biggest examples of this are third level education, health and transport.

Can you think of any massive wastes of money in this country or do you think we don't pay enough into certain services?

pundy · 17-06-2014 03:08PM

go to a canary island and then you will realise it is a LOT more than just tax that we pay extra for on our goods.

you can get a bottle of whiskey for 8euro in the supermarket for example. the same bottle here costs 32euro (on "special offer"). Pints for a euro, cigarette for 2euro... dinner for 7 including beers, whiskeys and wine was never more than 70euro.

Ireland's ridiculously expensive.

maguic24 · 17-06-2014 03:10PM

Hmmm, are ya working Steddy or should ya be? :pac:

L1m1tless · 17-06-2014 03:10PM

TV Licence

steddyeddy · 17-06-2014 03:11PM

maguic24 wrote: »

Hmmm, are ya working Steddy or should ya be? :pac:

I'm doing a PhD funded from an British science orginisation so I'm not wasting your money anyway :pac:

steddyeddy · 17-06-2014 03:12PM

CowboyDreams wrote: »

TV Licence

Oh dear Jesus yes!!! I forgot that one. The biggest culprit of all.

RoyalMarine · 17-06-2014 03:12PM

steddyeddy wrote: »

Personally I think there is massive waste in our society and we definitely don't get good value for our money. The two biggest examples of this are third level education, health and transport.

Clearly education, since that's three examples.

Elmo · 17-06-2014 03:14PM

steddyeddy wrote: »

Yesterday I had to get the bus from Donnybrook to Dunlaoghaire and was charged 3.05 each way for the privilege. This is a relatively expensive country but I wouldn't mind that if we got good return for our money. The problem is we usually don't. The bus service is terrible, the drivers can be rude and the buses don't appear to follow a timetable :S.

That's just a small example but ultimately I wonder it's a microcosm of bigger issues. For instance considering the amount we pump into health, education or housing are we getting value for money?

Personally I think there is massive waste in our society and we definitely don't get good value for our money. The two biggest examples of this are third level education, health and transport.

Can you think of any massive wastes of money in this country or do you think we don't pay enough into certain services?

Reports and consultants. Lots of stuff could be done without complication but for some reason we need a report and consultants to comprehend that report.

The leap card is a good example. The government should have used those travellers with bus passes to test the service. This would

1. Test the Leap Card services for fee paying passengers
2. It would show how often the free service is used by people
3. It would integrate free and paying passengers across all routes
4. It might mean the use of Leap cards in other cities and towns.

maguic24 · 17-06-2014 03:18PM

I'm no tax guru...but from where I'm standing the USC looks like a tax on tax....???

:mad:

William F · 17-06-2014 03:19PM

I was just discussing this with my partner the other day when our internet happened to break down.

I went into an internet cafe to get two scans and I was charged 3 euro. I used my laptop in Starbucks and was charged just under 3 euro for a bottle of water.

The laundry service next door to me charges 5 euro for a half an hour drying cycle and another five euro for a wash cycle.

Considering the price of rent in the city and compare all the above essentials with a minimum wage salary and you don't get value for your money.

The prices in this country are unjustified.

17-06-2014 03:27PM

CowboyDreams wrote: »

TV Licence

Hi TV License Inspector

Hadouken

Valetta · 17-06-2014 03:28PM

William F wrote: »

I was just discussing this with my partner the other day when our internet happened to break down.

I went into an internet cafe to get two scans and I was charged 3 euro. I used my laptop in Starbucks and was charged just under 3 euro for a bottle of water.

The laundry service next door to me charges 5 euro for a half an hour drying cycle and another five euro for a wash cycle.

Considering the price of rent in the city and compare all the above essentials with a minimum wage salary and you don't get value for your money.

The prices in this country are unjustified.

Starbucks and laundry shops have to pay rent too.

Also, bottled water and paying for laundry are not essentials, but discretionary spending.

I think we get reasonable value for money. In the example in the OP, I think €6.10 for a once off return journey from Donnybrook to Dun Laoghaire is very good value. I use buses and the luas regularly and have an annual tax-saver ticket which works out at about €13.50 per week- great value in my book.

There is obviously a lot of wastage in the system, but even if it was all eliminated the cost of public services would not be much cheaper.

Comparing us to the Canaries is just nonsense.

steddyeddy · 17-06-2014 03:30PM

Valetta wrote: »

Starbucks and laundry shops have to pay rent too.

Also, bottled water and paying for laundry are not essentials, but discretionary spending.

I think we get reasonable value for money. In the example in the OP, I think €6.10 for a once off return journey from Donnybrook to Dun Laoghaire is very good value. I use buses and the luas regularly and have an annual tax-saver ticket which works out at about €13.50 per week- great value in my book.

There is obviously a lot of wastage in the system, but even if it was all eliminated the cost of public services would not be much cheaper.

Comparing us to the Canaries is just nonsense.

Are you joking?? Do you think it's good value compared to other countries?

Vito Corleone · 17-06-2014 03:31PM

Third level education is extremely cheap in this country. I think we get good value for money.

uch · 17-06-2014 03:32PM

€9 for 24 jax rolls on Thomas street, now thats good value for money

Valetta · 17-06-2014 03:32PM

steddyeddy wrote: »

Are you joking?? Do you think it's good value compared to other countries?

What other countries?

What are the wages / social welfare rates in these other countries?

Eg. What would it cost for a similar length journey by bus or tube in London?

maguic24 · 17-06-2014 03:34PM

uch wrote: »

€9 for 24 jax rolls on Thomas street, now thats good value for money

€0 for 9 jax rolls stolen borrowed from the jax in Brown Thomas. :pac:

I never EVER done that when I was in college. Ever. :pac:

darkpagandeath · 17-06-2014 03:34PM

William F wrote: »

I was just discussing this with my partner the other day when our internet happened to break down.

I went into an internet cafe to get two scans and I was charged 3 euro. I used my laptop in Starbucks and was charged just under 3 euro for a bottle of water.

The laundry service next door to me charges 5 euro for a half an hour drying cycle and another five euro for a wash cycle.

Considering the price of rent in the city and compare all the above essentials with a minimum wage salary and you don't get value for your money.

The prices in this country are unjustified.

Problem here is peoples attitudes, if you as a business owner are not making over 100% profit you not making a good profit. And tbh i have no idea how most places are still open here well apart from food stores, You can go online and buy almost anything for a fraction of the price. Its no all rent, rates, wages it’s profiteering as well. How many businesses have taken the opportunity in the recession to get rid of the expensive employees to take on well lower paid replacements because it’s an employers market.

bear1 · 17-06-2014 03:35PM

pundy wrote: »

go to a canary island and then you will realise it is a LOT more than just tax that we pay extra for on our goods.

you can get a bottle of whiskey for 8euro in the supermarket for example. the same bottle here costs 32euro (on "special offer"). Pints for a euro, cigarette for 2euro... dinner for 7 including beers, whiskeys and wine was never more than 70euro.

Ireland's ridiculously expensive.

The Canary Islands are part of a special territory which lies outside the EU.
They are exempt from VAT, they have a tax for some goods and the rest are charged at 5% hence why things are cheaper there.
Can't really compare them tbh.
You would have to compare Ireland to a country of equal value to get an idea of living costs here.

http://www.lowtax.net/information/spain/spain-canary-islands-special-zone.html

steddyeddy · 17-06-2014 03:36PM

Valetta wrote: »

What other countries?

What are the wages / social welfare rates in these other countries?

Eg. What would it cost for a similar length journey by bus or tube in London?

London transport is certainly expensive but the service is a lot better. There are generally buses every ten minutes in a lot of areas. I wouldn't mind paying a lot if the service were up to scratch.

The_Captain · 17-06-2014 03:40PM

Valetta wrote: »

I think €6.10 for a once off return journey from Donnybrook to Dun Laoghaire is very good value.

That's insanity. The fact is that we don't live in a world where people can afford to pay Celtic Tiger rates anymore but a lot of businesses don't want to adjust their prices.
So now we have a situation where peoples wages have dropped or people have been made redundant, new taxes and charges have been introduced, but the cost of living hasn't fallen.
In order to 'make savings' (read: maintain an unsustainable profit margin) a load of businesses have reduced their quality of service to utter shít.

That's why Dublin Bus are losing money hand over fist.

But yeah, let's compare our cost of living to London, one of the most expensive cities in the world, where they have much higher employment rates and base wages.

Aglomerado · 17-06-2014 03:40PM

maguic24 wrote: »

€0 for 9 jax rolls stolen borrowed from the jax in Brown Thomas. :pac:

I never EVER done that when I was in college. Ever. :pac:

Nor did I. The dispensers had padlocks in NUIG.

maguic24 · 17-06-2014 03:42PM

Aglomerado wrote: »

Nor did I. The dispensers had padlocks in NUIG.

Oh. Sucks to be you. :P :pac:

All the toilet roll, yay!!

steddyeddy · 17-06-2014 03:42PM

Just to defend the business owners, the commercial rents in Dublin are mental. Many haven't dropped significantly since the Celtic tiger. That's another example of absorbent prices being charged. The higher commercial rents also have an affect on the amount we pay for goods and services.

Valetta · 17-06-2014 03:43PM

steddyeddy wrote: »

London transport is certainly expensive but the service is a lot better. There are generally buses every ten minutes in a lot of areas. I wouldn't mind paying a lot if the service were up to scratch.

But there are generally buses every 10 minutes in a lot of areas in Dublin as well.

How long did you have to wait for your bus to Dun Laoghaire?

Value is just a perception.

Valetta · 17-06-2014 03:45PM

The_Captain wrote: »

That's insanity. The fact is that we don't live in a world where people can afford to pay Celtic Tiger rates anymore but a lot of businesses don't want to adjust their prices.
So now we have a situation where peoples wages have dropped or people have been made redundant, new taxes and charges have been introduced, but the cost of living hasn't fallen.
In order to 'make savings' (read: maintain an unsustainable profit margin) a load of businesses have reduced their quality of service to utter shít.

That's why Dublin Bus are losing money hand over fist.

But yeah, let's compare our cost of living to London, one of the most expensive cities in the world, where they have much higher employment rates and base wages.

Where would you like to compare us to?

A pint o Guinness · 17-06-2014 03:47PM

TV licences are terrible.
When I initially arrived, I legitimately thought it was a joke. The concept would baffle just about anyone from outside here.

darkpagandeath · 17-06-2014 03:48PM

Valetta wrote: »

Where would you like to compare us to?

Don't we get compared to New Zealand?

A pint o Guinness wrote: »

TV licences are terrible.
When I initially arrived, I legitimately thought it was a joke. The concept would baffle just about anyone from outside here.

Ah sure just wait for your internet tax, Sorry i mean broadcast charge.

steddyeddy · 17-06-2014 03:54PM

Valetta wrote: »

But there are generally buses every 10 minutes in a lot of areas in Dublin as well.

How long did you have to wait for your bus to Dun Laoghaire?

Value is just a perception.

I'll put it this way. I live in and around Donnybrook. The cost from here to Dunlaoghaire would put me off going again. Dunlaoghaire as a town is dying. Many businesses had to shut down due to lack of business and commercial rents. The fact that I have to pay six euro to get to Dunlaoghaire would definitely put me off going any time soon. It pays for the government to subsidise travel where they can. Even when I'm going into Dublin city I walk in and out to avoid the ridiculous bus fare of 2.60 each way for a 20 minute or less drive.

ancapailldorcha · 17-06-2014 04:04PM

steddyeddy wrote: »

London transport is certainly expensive but the service is a lot better. There are generally buses every ten minutes in a lot of areas. I wouldn't mind paying a lot if the service were up to scratch.

The service I've experienced on non-Irish public transport is incredible compared to Bus Éireann and Dublin Bus. I understand that Ireland isn't the cheapest place to provide these services but when the staff are so horrible to customers it just makes for another reason why I'm glad I left.

steddyeddy · 17-06-2014 04:06PM

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

The service I've experienced on non-Irish public transport is incredible compared to Bus Éireann and Dublin Bus. I understand that Ireland isn't the cheapest place to provide these services but when the staff are so horrible to customers it just makes for another reason why I'm glad I left.

I get the impression some bus drivers think they're doing me a favour

As a society are we getting value for money?

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