Drink Driving

PLUG71 · 15-06-2014 10:25am

Chancer3001 wrote: »

I've driven after a few pints. Like maybe 3 maximum. Made no difference to my driving but obviously 3 pints is gonna affect different people in different ways.

It makes a difference to your reaction time wether you like the fact or not!!

Maphisto · 15-06-2014 10:25am

looking_around wrote: »

My parents live in a rural area.

Pub has maybe 5 people on a busy day. Local taxi, is well, a local from the surrounding area. 2 drivers actually, they take turns on the days and often only run the taxi around the entire area 2-3 times on a night.

So if we take your anecdote and my anecdote, could we agree that some percentage of rural areas have no public transport (buses or taxis)?

And even if there are some areas with no one. You do not need to drink.

OK well I won't but that makes very little difference to the auld fella living up the hill on his own, who's one bit of fun is a couple of pints 5 miles away. It's a problem. Doesn't mean I support him drinking and driving.

And saying things like "well, some areas don't have taxi's", is condoning drink driving. And it should not be acceptable, ever.

That's a bit of a leap of faith there. I'm not condoning drink driving at all just saying that there is a problem with rural isolation.

UCDVet · 15-06-2014 10:27am

Eh....first they told me drink driving was horrible. Practically a guarantee that someone will die.

Then they told me talk talking on the cell phone while driving was *just* as dangerous.

Then they told me driving while 'emotional' is just as dangerous as drink driving. Who hasn't driven while frustrated at the kids in the back or pissed off that your boss made you stay late?

Then they tell me driving while tired is just as dangerous as drink driving.

At some point, I'm starting to think that maybe drink driving wasn't nearly as dangerous as I've been lead to believe. I drove for years while chatting on cell phones (completely legal at the time). I've driven while emotional and tired too. I don't know anyone who hasn't. Now sure, in EXTREME cases, if I'm EXTREMELY tired, I'd stop driving. Just as if I was unable to walk because I was EXTREMELY DRUNK, I wouldn't drive.

But it really makes me reconsider the dangers of having a buzz and getting behind the wheel. I mean, it's *just* as dangerous as driving if I'm pissed that my team lost their world cup match. Just as dangerous as if I'm a little sleepy.

Heck, I remember when they used to tell us 'Your body processes one drink per hour' or some such formula. If you'd had a few to drink, stop drinking, wait around at the party, sober up, then drive home. That was the 'safe' thing to do. Now I learn that we weren't helping anything. Drunk at 1am isn't any better than sleepy at 3am.

coffee_cake · 15-06-2014 10:30am

The point is that your reflexes will be dulled and you won't react or process seeing things you encounter
Your motor skills will be less coordinated which may impact steering, doing other things like changing gear at the same time, etc

UCDVet · 15-06-2014 10:33am

PLUG71 wrote: »

It makes a difference to your reaction time wether you like the fact or not!!

So does being a woman.
So does being old.
http://www.brianmac.co.uk/pictures/physiology/reactiongraph.gif

So does playing the radio.
http://www.drdriving.org/misc/music_strick_report.html

I'd fully support a definition of what a safe minimum reaction time is, and adjust the laws accordingly, but I can't remember anyone ever telling me what reaction time I need to drive safely. I've just always been told, if I drink a beer, well....I'm *slower* than I would be otherwise. It's hard to put an meaningful value on that. Sure, okay. But If I turn 35, I'm *slower* than I was at 34.

At some point, it's a problem. I'm not saying otherwise. I just have no idea when it becomes a problem.

MajorMax · 15-06-2014 10:36am

I knew a man in the midlands, many years ago. A lifelong pioneer and leader of the community.

One night he's driving home, quite late and he has a crash. Totally and completely the fault of the other driver. A drunk driver. That drunk driver died of his injuries. The pioneer was unscathed.

That experience haunted the Pioneer, so even if you only kill yourself drink driving, you can affect other people

Drink drivers are scum. This is a non debatable point, this is a fact. Anyone that condones or excuses it are scum (Healy Rae, I'm looking at you, capboy)

If you drink and drive, I would reccomend you hop into a nice warm bath and bring a nice toaster in with you, Don't forget to make sure the toaster is plugged in (normally that would go without saying, but we're dealing with semi functional morons here), save everyone the time and effort of scraping your worthless carcess off the road or the bodies of your victims

Gannicus · 15-06-2014 10:42am

Banjo String wrote: »

There really isn't any excuse nowadays.

Badly Drunk Boy wrote: »

I'm sure some people would disagree with you, especially in rural areas. In urban areas there's no excuse because you've got more buses, taxis'n'stuff, but if you live in a rural area, in the middle of nowhere, and you want to socialise, I'm sure it'd be tempting to drive 2 or 3 miles to the local.

Sorry Badly Drunk Boy but thats bullshít. There is no excuse. Whats to stop them from rotating a designated driver.

I've been part of this argument country people (mainly the older generation) and they píss and moan about how the reduced limit has stopped them going for pints in the local at the weekend.

If you're going to meet 4 or 5 mates in the pub surely one of you can be a designated driver that weekend and someone else the weekend.

Its typical irish drink dependance. Make any excuse to have a pint.

corner of hells wrote: »

Call the Gardai if you see them driving after drinking.

I've done that before. The Gards don't do anything. I've been told by a Gard that the reasOn they nearly never show is because chances are the driver is home by the time they arrive and they can't arrest him based on a phone call if he's not in the car.

PLUG71 · 15-06-2014 10:44am

UCDVet wrote: »

So does being a woman.
So does being old.
http://www.brianmac.co.uk/pictures/physiology/reactiongraph.gif

So does playing the radio.
http://www.drdriving.org/misc/music_strick_report.html

I'd fully support a definition of what a safe minimum reaction time is, and adjust the laws accordingly, but I can't remember anyone ever telling me what reaction time I need to drive safely. I've just always been told, if I drink a beer, well....I'm *slower* than I would be otherwise. It's hard to put an meaningful value on that. Sure, okay. But If I turn 35, I'm *slower* than I was at 34.

At some point, it's a problem. I'm not saying otherwise. I just have no idea when it becomes a problem.

It becomes a problem as soon as you consume.

I really dont understand why anybody would risk leaving themselves wide open to a world of sh1t when things go pear shaped!

Maphisto · 15-06-2014 10:48am

MajorMax wrote: »

I knew a man in the midlands, many years ago. A lifelong pioneer and leader of the community.

One night he's driving home, quite late and he has a crash. Totally and completely the fault of the other driver. A drunk driver. That drunk driver died of his injuries. The pioneer was unscathed.

That experience haunted the Pioneer, so even if you only kill yourself drink driving, you can affect other people

Any death is a haunting experience. I'd suggest that the death is what haunts your friend rather than the drink driving aspect. If you were the first to come across a suicide victim - I think that image would stay with you - Scum?

Not far from here but years ago a fella over turned his tractor and trapped his leg. The Doctor amputated it there. Now I didn't see much but I can still see that image (20+ years ago).

Drink drivers are scum. This is a non debatable point, this is a fact. Anyone that condones or excuses it are scum (Healy Rae, I'm looking at you, capboy)

Its not a fact just because you say so. Its opinion.

If you drink and drive, I would reccomend you hop into a nice warm bath and bring a nice toaster in with you, Don't forget to make sure the toaster is plugged in (normally that would go without saying, but we're dealing with semi functional morons here), save everyone the time and effort of scraping your worthless carcess off the road or the bodies of your victims

You shouldn't have electrical sockets in a bathroom.

UCDVet · 15-06-2014 10:51am

PLUG71 wrote: »

It becomes a problem as soon as you consume.

I really dont understand why anybody would risk leaving themselves wide open to a world of sh1t when things go pear shape!

But that's a ridiculous argument.

It's really easy to say, 'ANY level of impairment is unacceptable', but *EVERYTHING* impairs us. Virtually everything anyway. Listening to the radio reduces our ability to respond to obstacles on the road. Having passengers in the car makes us more likely to crash (http://abcnews.go.com/Health/Healthday/story?id=4507310). Driving at night reduces visibility (even with headlights, it's no contest compared to the sun).

Alcohol does reduce someone's reaction time. So does age, gender, and a million other factors. A 20 year-old with one beer has a better reaction time than pretty much EVERYONE, except another 20 year-old who hasn't had a beer. But we still let everyone else drive. They are impaired, compared to the 20 year-old.

Beyond that, even as we age, while our reaction time does decrease, the rate of accidents decreases. Suggesting that a razor sharp reaction time is irrelevant when driving. 20 year old males have the best reaction times, but aren't the safest drivers.

PLUG71 · 15-06-2014 10:58am

UCDVet wrote: »

But that's a ridiculous argument.

It's really easy to say, 'ANY level of impairment is unacceptable', but *EVERYTHING* impairs us. Virtually everything anyway. Listening to the radio reduces our ability to respond to obstacles on the road. Having passengers in the car makes us more likely to crash (http://abcnews.go.com/Health/Healthday/story?id=4507310). Driving at night reduces visibility (even with headlights, it's no contest compared to the sun).

Alcohol does reduce someone's reaction time. So does age, gender, and a million other factors. A 20 year-old with one beer has a better reaction time than pretty much EVERYONE, except another 20 year-old who hasn't had a beer. But we still let everyone else drive. They are impaired, compared to the 20 year-old.

Beyond that, even as we age, while our reaction time does decrease, the rate of accidents decreases. Suggesting that a razor sharp reaction time is irrelevant when driving. 20 year old males have the best reaction times, but aren't the safest drivers.

You are correct!

However most of the factors the effect drivers are there anyway and are part of driving in general.

Drinking and getting into a vehicle is a personal choice which can be avoided with a bit of common sense and self control.

umop.episdn · 15-06-2014 10:58am

Switch off your radio, tell your passengers shut up, problem solved!

razorblunt · 15-06-2014 11:01am

What if you're thirsty? I'm not waiting till I get home to open my water!

Bench Press · 15-06-2014 11:02am

up to about 4 years ago, I would drink drive nearly every weekend.

PLUG71 · 15-06-2014 11:05am

Bench Press wrote: »

up to about 4 years ago, I would drink drive nearly every weekend.

So basically you dont give a toss about yourself, your family, other people that you may hurt and their familys?

Cant type what I really think about your comment due to infraction!!:mad:

UCDVet · 15-06-2014 11:22am

umop.episdn wrote: »

Switch off your radio, tell your passengers shut up, problem solved!

If any level of impairment is something we should absolutely avoid....why do we allow cars to have radios and more than one seat? We're encouraging people to do those activities.

UCDVet · 15-06-2014 11:24am

PLUG71 wrote: »

So basically you dont give a toss about yourself, your family, other people that you may hurt and their familys?

Cant type what I really think about your comment due to infraction!!:mad:

In fairness, that's not the only possible explanation for drink driving....

Herb Powell · 15-06-2014 11:35am

My dad sometimes drives back from the local pub. The most he would have is 3 pints, and it's about a mile down the road in the country, where the roads really are deserted at night. The fastest he would drive would be about 30km/h.

I wouldn't ever do it myself, but he seems to have it figured out. He says he wouldn't do it from any other pub.

Now go on and shoot me for defending a drink driver

PLUG71 · 15-06-2014 11:41am

UCDVet wrote: »

In fairness, that's not the only possible explanation for drink driving....

There is no defence for it IMO SO KEEP TRYING TO JUSTIFY IT :rolleyes:

c_man · 15-06-2014 11:56am

PLUG71 wrote: »

There is no defence for it IMO SO KEEP TRYING TO JUSTIFY IT :rolleyes:

What if I had to drink drive to save the world??? Eh? Eh?!

fasttalkerchat · 15-06-2014 12:03pm

Its not a valid excuse but I've noticed that some pub and hotel car parks have time limits or clamping signs up. If you decide to stay on and have a few pints you can't leave the car overnight for fear of getting clamped. This needs to be addressed.

mezuzaj · 15-06-2014 12:07pm

The King of Moo wrote: »

Have you ever done it?

Do you think it's ok?

Having recently started driving, I can now understand the temptation to do it. It's very easy to find yourself having drunk a little bit, and being left with options like having to wait for a bus or pay for a taxi, and maybe the hassle of having to pick up your car the next day.

In those situations I think about driving, and feel for a second like I could do it.
But then I think about the fact that I know I still have some thinks to learn and can still make mistakes as a new driver, and adding alcohol doesn't help. Even if I feel like I can drive, I know my judgement is being affected by the alcohol, and my reactions won't be so good.
And it's simply too easy to cause some serious harm with such a dangerous machine, so I don't think I'll ever do it. It's not worth the risk.
But I've been surprised by the number of people who are not bothered about driving after a drink or two, so I'm curious about the general consensus on the issue.

ANYONE who goes for a drink has to leave the car at home. People do stupid things when drunk, like thinking they are fine to drive. People don't think straight after a couple of drinks.

So leave the car at home.

Chattastrophe! · 15-06-2014 12:07pm

fasttalkerchat wrote: »

Its not a valid excuse but I've noticed that some pub and hotel car parks have time limits or clamping signs up. If you decide to stay on and have a few pints you can't leave the car overnight for fear of getting clamped. This needs to be addressed.

Or people could just plan ahead ...?

UCDVet · 15-06-2014 12:07pm

PLUG71 wrote: »

There is no defence for it IMO SO KEEP TRYING TO JUSTIFY IT :rolleyes:

I'm not defending trying to defend drink driving, I'm trying to attack everything else that is equally as dangerous. I find it incredibly hypocritical that we single out one thing, but not these others.

It's easy enough to condemn the 45 year-old man who has 2-3 pints over a few hours and drives home with a BAC of .03 as a horrible man who wants to kill himself and everyone else. But what about the Mum of four driving to the dance recital for her daughter? She's got crying children in the back, a lack of sleep, and is running late, she's in no condition for optimal driving, but we give her a free pass.

And the 55 year-old man who has the same reaction time as the 45 year old does after he's had 4 pints, we still let him drive. But he's impaired. He's *sober* but he's impaired.

In all of these other cases we say, 'Well, sure, it's not perfect, but people have to get on with their lives. Can't expect someone to sleep at the office just because they'd have a long and stressful day'. But studies have shown a *lot* of things are 'just as dangerous' as drink driving.

Texting is SIX TIMES more dangerous (http://www2.potsdam.edu/alcohol/files/Driving-while-Texting-Six-Times-More-Dangerous-than-Driving-while-Drunk.html#.U519DPldVIo)
Talking on a cell phone is as dangerous (http://www2.potsdam.edu/alcohol/DrivingIssues/20060830105036.html#.U519DPldVIo)
Being tired (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/05/31/drowsy-driving-dangerous-drunk-sleepy_n_1557200.html)
Being 'distracted' (http://www.streetdirectory.com/travel_guide/54346/car_accidents/distracted_driving_worse_than_drunk_driving.html)
Being 'emotional'
(http://www.dmv.org/how-to-guides/driving-and-emotions.php)
Being 'old'
(http://www.cdc.gov/motorvehiclesafety/older_adult_drivers/adult-drivers_factsheet.html)

It's just hard for me to view one thing as worse than another, if they're both equally dangerous. But our society doesn't seem to agree.

PLUG71 · 15-06-2014 12:11pm

UCDVet wrote: »

I'm not defending trying to defend drink driving, I'm trying to attack everything else that is equally as dangerous. I find it incredibly hypocritical that we single out one thing, but not these others.

It's easy enough to condemn the 45 year-old man who has 2-3 pints over a few hours and drives home with a BAC of .03 as a horrible man who wants to kill himself and everyone else. But what about the Mum of four driving to the dance recital for her daughter? She's got crying children in the back, a lack of sleep, and is running late, she's in no condition for optimal driving, but we give her a free pass.

And the 55 year-old man who has the same reaction time as the 45 year old does after he's had 4 pints, we still let him drive. But he's impaired. He's *sober* but he's impaired.

In all of these other cases we say, 'Well, sure, it's not perfect, but people have to get on with their lives. Can't expect someone to sleep at the office just because they'd have a long and stressful day'. But studies have shown a *lot* of things are 'just as dangerous' as drink driving.

Texting is SIX TIMES more dangerous (http://www2.potsdam.edu/alcohol/files/Driving-while-Texting-Six-Times-More-Dangerous-than-Driving-while-Drunk.html#.U519DPldVIo)
Talking on a cell phone is as dangerous (http://www2.potsdam.edu/alcohol/DrivingIssues/20060830105036.html#.U519DPldVIo)
Being tired (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/05/31/drowsy-driving-dangerous-drunk-sleepy_n_1557200.html)
Being 'distracted' (http://www.streetdirectory.com/travel_guide/54346/car_accidents/distracted_driving_worse_than_drunk_driving.html)
Being 'emotional'
(http://www.dmv.org/how-to-guides/driving-and-emotions.php)
Being 'old'
(http://www.cdc.gov/motorvehiclesafety/older_adult_drivers/adult-drivers_factsheet.html)

It's just hard for me to view one thing as worse than another, if they're both equally dangerous. But our society doesn't seem to agree.

Wow!

Ok I see your point but surely drink driving is a bigger problem?

Menas · 15-06-2014 12:13pm

UCDVet wrote: »

I'm not defending trying to defend drink driving, I'm trying to attack everything else that is equally as dangerous. I find it incredibly hypocritical that we single out one thing, but not these others.

It's easy enough to condemn the 45 year-old man who has 2-3 pints over a few hours and drives home with a BAC of .03 as a horrible man who wants to kill himself and everyone else. But what about the Mum of four driving to the dance recital for her daughter? She's got crying children in the back, a lack of sleep, and is running late, she's in no condition for optimal driving, but we give her a free pass.

And the 55 year-old man who has the same reaction time as the 45 year old does after he's had 4 pints, we still let him drive. But he's impaired. He's *sober* but he's impaired.

In all of these other cases we say, 'Well, sure, it's not perfect, but people have to get on with their lives. Can't expect someone to sleep at the office just because they'd have a long and stressful day'. But studies have shown a *lot* of things are 'just as dangerous' as drink driving.

Texting is SIX TIMES more dangerous (http://www2.potsdam.edu/alcohol/files/Driving-while-Texting-Six-Times-More-Dangerous-than-Driving-while-Drunk.html#.U519DPldVIo)
Talking on a cell phone is as dangerous (http://www2.potsdam.edu/alcohol/DrivingIssues/20060830105036.html#.U519DPldVIo)
Being tired (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/05/31/drowsy-driving-dangerous-drunk-sleepy_n_1557200.html)
Being 'distracted' (http://www.streetdirectory.com/travel_guide/54346/car_accidents/distracted_driving_worse_than_drunk_driving.html)
Being 'emotional'
(http://www.dmv.org/how-to-guides/driving-and-emotions.php)
Being 'old'
(http://www.cdc.gov/motorvehiclesafety/older_adult_drivers/adult-drivers_factsheet.html)

It's just hard for me to view one thing as worse than another, if they're both equally dangerous. But our society doesn't seem to agree.

I am not sure I see your point. You agree that Drink driving is bad but keep on stating that other things can also be a hamper to good driving?
Are you proposing we ban driving all together?
Or just get rid of the drink driving laws?
Or something else?

arybvtcw0eolkf · 15-06-2014 12:17pm

I enjoy a pint or two then riding home after work.

I also enjoy a few after training, two max then its a chipper and a few cans for the gaff

UCDVet · 15-06-2014 12:18pm

Trigger Happy wrote: »

I am not sure I see your point. You agree that Drink driving is bad but keep on stating that other things can also be a hamper to good driving?
Are you proposing we ban driving all together?
Or just get rid of the drink driving laws?
Or something else?

I'm not saying these other things are 'also' bad. As in 'less than perfect'. I'm saying there are studies that show they are AS BAD as drink driving.

Which means our society has some serious cognitive dissidence....having a few pints and driving is as dangerous as being upset and driving, or being tired and driving, or being old and driving. That's statistically a fact (according to several studies). So either they should all be equally illegal or equally legal. We should spend the same amount of resources advocating against one of them as we do the rest. We should vilify everyone who does any of those things, or we shouldn't. Our attitudes should reflect the reality of the situation.

trancemuzic · 15-06-2014 12:21pm

Come on , you know i drive great when IM wasted

K.Flyer · 15-06-2014 12:21pm

UCDVet wrote: »

I'm not defending trying to defend drink driving, I'm trying to attack everything else that is equally as dangerous. I find it incredibly hypocritical that we single out one thing, but not these others.

Thats a fair point, there are other potential contributors to motor accidents out there that, usually by way of distraction, can result in an accident.
But alcohol (and drugs) impairs judgement and can cause your reactions to something suddenly happening to be blurred.
I cannot understand why some people feel the need to try to justify having a few pints and driving is ok. As usual its not a problem until a problem occurs.

Drink Driving

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