Opting out of School Prayer

brianon · 12-06-2014 11:26AM #1

Hi All,

Just looking for an opinion on this. My daughter is in 1st class (she is 7) in the local parish school. She is not baptised and will not be making her first communion next year.

My question is relating to the morning (and home time) prayer they all stand and say each day at school. I am going to see if it is ok if she no longer has to stand and say these prayers. I am not crazy asking for this am I ?

Cabaal · 12-06-2014 11:31AM

Your request is perfectly reasonable and legal...especially as the school accepted her into the school knowingly she had no faith so they have no excuse to deny your request

They can't force her to take part in parts of a faith she's not part of. As a parent you have a say in what she's involved in so if you don't want her taking part in prayer or religion class the must respect this....though depending on the school they may fight you and make excuses for why she can't opt ou etc.

eviltwin · 12-06-2014 11:32AM

brianon wrote: »

Hi All,

Just looking for an opinion on this. My daughter is in 1st class (she is 7) in the local parish school. She is not baptised and will not be making her first communion next year.

My question is relating to the morning (and home time) prayer they all stand and say each day at school. I am going to see if it is ok if she no longer has to stand and say these prayers. I am not crazy asking for this am I ?

I don't think so, she's not a Catholic after all. Its not too much hassle for the teacher either as you're not asking for her to leave the class. I think if you explain then the school should respect your position.

LostinKildare · 12-06-2014 11:38AM

Not crazy at all. She's not Catholic, why should she pretend to be? Sitting quietly and respectfully seems perfectly reasonable. That's what adult non-Catholics do in churches at weddings, funerals, etc.

Nick Park · 12-06-2014 11:51AM

Your child has a Constitutional right (Article 44.4) to attend a school that receives public funding without attending religious instruction. It would be reasonable to argue that participation in prayer falls under the heading of 'religious instruction.'

brianon · 12-06-2014 11:53AM

Thanks all for the replies. Very much appreciated. Going to go ahead and ask.

The Diddakoi · 12-06-2014 12:01PM

Never really gave it much thought before, but i'm not Catholic, and during church services that I have attrended I tend to sit/stand when others do, and just leave out the whole praying bit

I'd tend to back whatever your daughter feels most comfortable with

Cabaal · 12-06-2014 12:06PM

brianon wrote: »

Thanks all for the replies. Very much appreciated. Going to go ahead and ask.

Be interested to know what their response is to you, keep us updated if you can

kylith · 12-06-2014 01:25PM

brianon wrote: »

Thanks all for the replies. Very much appreciated. Going to go ahead and ask.

Don't ask - tell. Tell them that your daughter will not be praying and is not to be expected to, as she is not Catholic.

One of this countries' problems is our tendency to ask for permission to avail of our rights.

alf66 wrote: »

Never really gave it much thought before, but i'm not Catholic, and during church services that I have attrended I tend to sit/stand when others do, and just leave out the whole praying bit I'd tend to back whatever your daughter feels most comfortable with

I'll stand and sit, but I won't kneel. I'll never bend my knee to those bastards.

Cabaal · 12-06-2014 01:28PM

kylith wrote: »

I'll stand and sit, but I won't kneel. I'll never bend my knee to those bastards.

I'd be the same,

Some people say its disrespectful, but they forget that respect is earned, not simply given for no reason.

kylith · 12-06-2014 01:30PM

Cabaal wrote: »

I'd be the same,

Some people say its disrespectful, but they forget that respect is earned, not simply given for no reason.

Very true. Personally I see standing as respectful. Kneeling is, imo, a show of subservience.

shruikan2553 · 12-06-2014 09:40PM

kylith wrote: »

Very true. Personally I see standing as respectful. Kneeling is, imo, a show of subservience.

If a hobbit doesnt have to kneel to a king the I have to kneel to no one. Does anyone know the reason for kneeling?

endacl · 12-06-2014 09:43PM

alf66 wrote: »

Never really gave it much thought before, but i'm not Catholic, and during church services that I have attrended I tend to sit/stand when others do, and just leave out the whole praying bit /QUOTE]

No harm in a bit of exercise. The aul' 'catholic callisthenics'!

:pac:

PopePalpatine · 12-06-2014 10:25PM

kylith wrote: »

Don't ask - tell. Tell them that your daughter will not be praying and is not to be expected to, as she is not Catholic.

One of this countries' problems is our tendency to ask for permission to avail of our rights.

I'll stand and sit, but I won't kneel. I'll never bend my knee to those bastards.

Now I'm remembering that scene from Game of Thrones were Joffrey demands that Tyrion kneels before him.

Sulla Felix · 12-06-2014 11:12PM

kylith wrote: »

I'll stand and sit, but I won't kneel. I'll never bend my knee to those bastards.

I'm a bit more pragmatic than that. With a sore head from the night before the wedding/funeral revelry, it's usually less painful to park knees on cushion, arse on seat and rest head on hands than it is to sit upright on those torture contraptions.

kylith · 13-06-2014 08:30AM

PopePalpatine wrote: »

Now I'm remembering that scene from Game of Thrones were Joffrey demands that Tyrion kneels before him.

I was feeling a bit more Baylon Greyjoy than that.

Sulla Felix wrote: »

I'm a bit more pragmatic than that. With a sore head from the night before the wedding/funeral revelry, it's usually less painful to park knees on cushion, arse on seat and rest head on hands than it is to sit upright on those torture contraptions.

Hmmm, that's a fair plan. They keep the seats well polished, but it's possible to wedge your feet under the knee rest in such a way that you can snooze while sitting and not slide off.

robindch · 13-06-2014 09:38AM

shruikan2553 wrote: »

Does anyone know the reason for kneeling?

It's a gesture of submission. Same as the hands-together gesture used when praying which I believe derives from having one's wrists bound together.

I Heart Internet · 13-06-2014 10:26AM

kylith wrote: »

I'll stand and sit, but I won't kneel. I'll never bend my knee to those bastards.

Yeah, it's an act of submission and adoration.

But who do you think people are kneeling before kylith? Who are "those bastards"?

kylith · 13-06-2014 10:36AM

I Heart Internet wrote: »

Yeah, it's an act of submission and adoration.

But who do you think people are kneeling before kylith? Who are "those bastards"?

The priesthood, the Catholic hierarchy, the holy fecking trinity. Bastards the whole bally lot of them.

Cabaal · 13-06-2014 10:37AM

I Heart Internet wrote: »

Yeah, it's an act of submission and adoration.

But who do you think people are kneeling before kylith? Who are "those bastards"?

I'd imagine those bastards are the Catholic Church, incase you've been missing for the last few decades the church carried out numerous crimes and then covered them up, they continue to stone wall current investigation into their crimes/cover ups.

So understandably not every one can be bothered with the organisation and it's representing. Never mind kneeling to them.

I Heart Internet · 13-06-2014 10:38AM

kylith wrote: »

The priesthood, the Catholic hierarchy, the holy fecking trinity. Bastards the whole bally lot of them.

At mass one is only kneeling in reverence to God...not people.

You're dead right not to kneel if you either a) don't beleive in God or b) don't deem Him worthy of reverence.

robindch · 13-06-2014 10:38AM

kylith wrote: »

The priesthood, the Catholic hierarchy, the holy fecking trinity. Bastards the whole bally lot of them.

*cough*

a little chill, please

robindch · 13-06-2014 10:39AM

I Heart Internet wrote: »

At mass one is only kneeling in reverence to God...not people. You're dead right not to kneel if you either a) don't beleive in God or b) don't deem Him worthy of reverence.

What about wearing a hat?

I Heart Internet · 13-06-2014 10:40AM

Cabaal wrote: »

I'd imagine those bastards are the Catholic Church, incase you've been missing for the last few decades the church carried out numerous crimes and then covered them up, they continue to stone wall current investigation into their crimes/cover ups.

So understandably not every one can be bothered with the organisation and it's representing. Never mind kneeling to them.

Yeah, I know people don't like the RCC. But the point is, people at mass kneel in reverence and adoration to God, not the RCC or any humans.

I Heart Internet · 13-06-2014 10:41AM

robindch wrote: »

What about wearing a hat?

I've had debates on boards about this before.

Uncovering one's head in a sacred space is for lay men in the western, christian tradition an act of reverence and respect for God.

kylith · 13-06-2014 10:42AM

I Heart Internet wrote: »

At mass one is only kneeling in reverence to God...not people.

You're dead right not to kneel if you either a) don't beleive in God or b) don't deem Him worthy of reverence.

He isn't worthy of the least bit of reverence. A being who claims to have boundless mercy and compassion who would rather help footballers score goals than help children dying of malaria isn't worth a moment of my, or anyone else's time.

robindch wrote: »

*cough*

a little chill, please

Apologies.

I Heart Internet · 13-06-2014 10:46AM

kylith wrote: »

He isn't worthy of the least bit of reverence. A being who claims to have boundless mercy and compassion who would rather help footballers score goals than help children dying of malaria isn't worth a moment of my, or anyone else's time.

Like I said, you're right not to kneel so, if that's what you think of Him.

Wait.....can you deliberatly choose not to show revernce to something you believe doesn't exist? Isn't that acknowledging it's existance?

Delirium · 13-06-2014 10:47AM

I Heart Internet wrote: »

Like I said, you're right not to kneel so, if that's what you think of Him.

Wait.....can you deliberatly choose not to show revernce to something you believe doesn't exist? Isn't that acknowledging it's existance?

damned if you do, damned if you don't

kylith · 13-06-2014 10:48AM

I Heart Internet wrote: »

Like I said, you're right not to kneel so, if that's what you think of Him.

Wait.....can you deliberatly choose not to show revernce to something you believe doesn't exist? Isn't that acknowledging it's existance?

It is more than possible to show irreverence to an idea.

I Heart Internet · 13-06-2014 10:48AM

SW wrote: »

damned if you do, damned if you don't

Not quite....;)

I Heart Internet · 13-06-2014 10:50AM

kylith wrote: »

It is more than possible to show irreverence to an idea.

But you spoke of him above as a "being" not an idea.

Opting out of School Prayer

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