Season 4, Episode 9; HAVE NOT Read the Books MOD NOTE Post 347

Iwasfrozen · 11-06-2014 11:54AM

Dan_Solo wrote: »

So the only two wargs in the wildling army were both sent over the wall?
Now that doesn't make any sense tactically...

Wildlings and tactics don't exactly go hand in hand.

Adamocovic · 11-06-2014 12:02PM

Even if Jon kills Mance would the wildlings not still try get over the wall? Like I doubt they'll all just fall into fighting with each other and just wait for the walkers to come and kill them, surely they'll still go for the wall won't they?

Timmyctc · 11-06-2014 12:03PM

GalwayGuy2 wrote: »

I'm going to go into the book a little bit for this scene. It won't spoil anything that hasn't already happened.

The original was for the raiding party to attack a few days beforehand and take the castle. Then, they could open the gate and let Mance in.

Lost a little in translation, but still a sound enough plan.

Maybe you missed the last few pages and/or haven't seen the charter but book talk in here is strictly forbidden no matter how big or small but there was a fairly substantial amount of time devoted to talking about it the last few pages. :P I'd edit that fairly sharpish unless you want to reignite that flame.

bren2001 · 11-06-2014 12:04PM

Adamocovic wrote: »

Even if Jon kills Mance would the wildlings not still try get over the wall? Like I doubt they'll all just fall into fighting with each other and just wait for the walkers to come and kill them, surely they'll still go for the wall won't they?

Mance is what united them. He is their leader. If he goes, there would be a grab for power and the whole thing would fall apart. Kill Mance, you stop the threat.

Adamocovic · 11-06-2014 12:06PM

bren2001 wrote: »

Mance is what united them. He is their leader. If he goes, there would be a grab for power and the whole thing would fall apart. Kill Mance, you stop the threat.

Yeah I understand that they will fall apart without him, but even when there are people fighting over who should lead them will a good percent of the wildlings not realise that if they stay they are pretty much dead and so would they not try get over the wall still? Maybe just looking too much in to it but i would still call an unorganised few hundred thousand attackers still tough for the wall to handle.

Dan_Solo · 11-06-2014 12:07PM

bren2001 wrote: »

Mance is what united them. He is their leader. If he goes, there would be a grab for power and the whole thing would fall apart. Kill Mance, you stop the threat.

I thought wildlings didn't have any tactics so why would it matter? They're all assembled at the wall now and they still have no choice except to push south.

OneOfThem Stumbled · 11-06-2014 12:12PM

FearDark wrote: »

Christ, could the people who have read the books just piss off? Seriously. I have to listen to ye in work, in the pub and now here in the "HAVE NOT READ THE BOOKS" thread.

dave3004 wrote: »

Surely the mods can just ban them from the thread

Little unfair imo - the HAVE READ the book thread is predominantly about the books: most discussion in relation to A Dance With Dragons (which I haven't read) and theories about Winds of Winter. Insofar that it discusses the show it does so to compare what was shown to what was written.

The HAVE NOT READ discusses the show in isolation, which is a bit refreshing.

When I was only a show watcher I wanted to know more about stuff that had chronologically passed but had not been shown on the show (cut due to time restraints etc.). Stumbled across Red Wedding and Joffrey's Wedding accidentally and was sorely pissed.

Don't get the arrogant pricks of youtube who say "X, Y, Z will happen. Didn't know? Go read the books." Secretly suspect that a lot of them have no interest in GOT and just read wiki articles and spoil for the hell of it. Fake spoilers help somewhat to mitigate the damage, but you'll always get the Dwight Schrute guy who'll make it worse! For people who are interested in youtube materials (like the excellent Game of Thrones Complete History Compilation), don't read the comments! Youtubers like comicbookgirl19, who are really conscientious about spoilers, have deliberately disabled commenting for this reason.

bren2001 · 11-06-2014 12:18PM

Adamocovic wrote: »

Yeah I understand that they will fall apart without him, but even when there are people fighting over who should lead them will a good percent of the wildlings not realise that if they stay they are pretty much dead and so would they not try get over the wall still? Maybe just looking too much in to it but i would still call an unorganised few hundred thousand attackers still tough for the wall to handle.

Dan_Solo wrote: »

I thought wildlings didn't have any tactics so why would it matter? They're all assembled at the wall now and they still have no choice except to push south.

Well first off, Mance is the tactician. Trained by the Nights Watch. He is the only one who knows their strengths and weaknesses. How to tackle the wall, how things operate south of the wall etc.

Secondly, the giant army is made up of thousands of tiny clans. Clans that for years have hated each other and were united by Mance. They believe in him. If he dies, the clans will start to fight again. Thus, the army falls apart. If they are not organised and united they cause the wall no problem.

They have always had the power to trouble the wall. Certain clans will decide not to ride with each other etc. Of course, it is possible for another leader to emerge. But Mance is the first in a VERY long time.

Timmyctc · 11-06-2014 12:22PM

OneOfThem Stumbled wrote: »

Little unfair imo - the HAVE READ the book thread is predominantly about the books: most discussion in relation to A Dance With Dragons (which I haven't read) and theories about Winds of Winter. Insofar that it discusses the show it does so to compare what was shown to what was written.

The HAVE NOT READ discusses the show in isolation, which is a bit refreshing.

When I was only a show watcher I wanted to know more about stuff that had chronologically passed but had not been shown on the show (cut due to time restraints etc.). Stumbled across Red Wedding and Joffrey's Wedding accidentally and was sorely pissed.

Don't get the arrogant pricks of youtube who say "X, Y, Z will happen. Didn't know? Go read the books." Secretly suspect that a lot of them have no interest in GOT and just read wiki articles and spoil for the hell of it. Fake spoilers help somewhat to mitigate the damage, but you'll always get the Dwight Schrute guy who'll make it worse! For people who are interested in youtube materials (like the excellent Game of Thrones Complete History Compilation), don't read the comments! Youtubers like comicbookgirl19, who are really conscientious about spoilers, have deliberately disabled commenting for this reason.

Its fine talking about the show in isolation. But in the past two pages alone three different people have referenced the books, Galwayguy did it just a few posts above. While its fine book people coming in and talking about the show in isolation theres still far too many coming in and referencing the book then complaining that people give out to them

Iwasfrozen · 11-06-2014 12:28PM

Timmyctc wrote: »

Its fine talking about the show in isolation. But in the past two pages alone three different people have referenced the books, Galwayguy did it just a few posts above. While its fine book people coming in and talking about the show in isolation theres still far too many coming in and referencing the book then complaining that people give out to them

What's wrong with referencing the books?

Dan_Solo · 11-06-2014 12:37PM

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

What's wrong with referencing the books?

The problem is that it inevitably leads to conclusions which add to the information available only from the show. As soon as you do that you risk informing the future happenings in the show.
There might be reasons why the don't tell us certain things as the show isn't exactly like the books apparently.

Timmyctc · 11-06-2014 12:38PM

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

What's wrong with referencing the books?

This is the *not read* thread? Its not allowed in here.

Gadgie · 11-06-2014 12:39PM

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

What's wrong with referencing the books?

Because this thread is for people who *HAVE NOT* read the books!

What is so difficult to understand about this?

calex71 · 11-06-2014 12:39PM

I am now locking this thread because of the farce it has descended into.

I will update later when I have time to clean up this mess.

under no circumstances attempt to start another thread to discuss this episode

calex71 · 12-06-2014 08:49PM

Thread Re-opened !!! I'll hang up a magic tree or something to clear the stink of recent discussion :pac:
No book discussion, and no OT chat re: book readers etc etc etc .

Edit : Please read the shiny new sticky at the top of the forum.

Also had to rejig the title of this thread to fit the mod note thingy

GottaGetGatt · 12-06-2014 08:53PM

So, ah yeah.....that wall was pretty high.

dinorebel · 12-06-2014 08:57PM

It was taller in the ...........oh wait

Links234 · 12-06-2014 09:04PM

So, damn good episode!

Seriously annoyed we didn't see the action in the tunnel, but otherwise amazing stuff.

Adamocovic · 12-06-2014 09:11PM

Links234 wrote: »

So, damn good episode!

Seriously annoyed we didn't see the action in the tunnel, but otherwise amazing stuff.

Was hoping Grenn had survived, was raging he didn't was a fearless character at the end.

Awkward Badger · 12-06-2014 10:49PM

It was a brilliant episode, best of of the show so far imo. I've never seen an episode of a show like it tbh.

Not sure about John going after Mance though. Surely they could now seal the tunnel and focus all men on defending on one front while sending word to anyone and everyone that an army of 100,000 wildlings are attacking the wall.

Its not like anyone would ignore it. 100k Wildlings come through and the North is gone. They could surely hold it long enough for re-enforcements to arrive.

wp_rathead · 12-06-2014 11:59PM

True, if Bolton was any way a decent "Warden of the North" he'd have his men up at the wall right now and not flaying the Ironborn lads

Pat Mustard · 13-06-2014 12:41AM

DM addict wrote: »

I really liked that as well - Ser Alliser has always come across as a gobsh*te, but this showed that he's actually being the best leader he can be in sh*tty circumstances.

Ser Alliser is a sarcastic, contemptuous, stubborn, arrogant prick. He screwed up royally when he ignored Jon Snow and refused to block the tunnel.

He's a second rate leader and he knows it.

I like him.

bluesfan · 13-06-2014 01:09AM

The Mustard wrote: »

I like him.

No you don't, you only said that to get him killed.

krudler · 13-06-2014 01:10AM

The Mustard wrote: »

Ser Alliser is a sarcastic, contemptuous, stubborn, arrogant prick. He screwed up royally when he ignored Jon Snow and refused to block the tunnel.

He's a second rate leader and he knows it.

I like him.

His fight with the red haired dude was cool, loved how he leaned around the part of the walkway he was on to give himself some protection and distance against your man, was a great scrap.

Whopper75 · 13-06-2014 01:20AM

I loveed the huge fekin' ANCHOR they had obliterate the climbers on their way up. I didn't see that coming [and neither did they, until it was too late]!

Timmyctc · 13-06-2014 01:47AM

I know a lot say the fight in the tunnel was cut due to budget restrants et al. But I felt it was much better as a result. Raging they died but they held the gate like heroes.

wp_rathead · 13-06-2014 07:39AM

Timmyctc wrote: »

I know a lot say the fight in the tunnel was cut due to budget restrants et al. But I felt it was much better as a result. Raging they died but they held the gate like heroes.

Agree, thought it was very well done and i actually felt more emotional over Gren dying than Ygritte - remember it was Gren who got yer man who was left in charge after Alister when down to castle black to feck off down after him (his name escapes me- the lad that killed the baby in the brothel)

Dan_Solo · 13-06-2014 07:59AM

Timmyctc wrote: »

I know a lot say the fight in the tunnel was cut due to budget restrants et al. But I felt it was much better as a result. Raging they died but they held the gate like heroes.

What? We have no idea how they fought. Maybe they ran around a bit and the giant had a coronary and fell on top of them. :-)
CGI v human fights are always tough ones to film.

GalwayGuy2 · 13-06-2014 09:00AM

krudler wrote: »

His fight with the red haired dude was cool, loved how he leaned around the part of the walkway he was on to give himself some protection and distance against your man, was a great scrap.

It looked cool...but I did kind of luagh at how stylish it looked :P

GerB40 · 13-06-2014 09:02AM

wprathead wrote: »

Agree, thought it was very well done and i actually felt more emotional over Gren dying than Ygritte - remember it was Gren who got yer man who was left in charge after Alister when down to castle black to feck off down after him (his name escapes me- the lad that killed the baby in the brothel)

Janos Slynt..
Slynt: "Are you questioning my honour?"
Tyrion: "I'm not questioning your honour Ser Janos, I'm denying its existence".
I think this was the moment Tyrion became my favourite character..

Season 4, Episode 9; *HAVE NOT* Read the Books MOD NOTE Post 347

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Season 4, Episode 9; HAVE NOT Read the Books MOD NOTE Post 347