Helping Opponent Search

PARlance · 10-06-2014 01:59PM

GreeBo wrote: »

If he doesnt declare it a provisional there is no benefit to either of you looking for it (well other than the fact he might get his ball back)

Probably not, unless the gamesmanship had already started.
It happened in a match I was I before though, our clubmembers who had been watching the match knew our ball was in the hay, our provo was on the green. Opponent and his crew went looking and found our ball buried...

I'd have been cursing myself walking off the tee....
"why do I ALWAYS hit it out there... twas only last week when I stuck 2 balls in there"

Joking of course.

Russman · 10-06-2014 03:54PM

PARlance wrote: »

I'd have been cursing myself walking off the tee....
"why do I ALWAYS hit it out there... twas only last week when I stuck 2 balls that I marked exactly the same as today's one in there"

Joking of course.

:D

Dbu · 10-06-2014 04:14PM

Probably not, unless the gamesmanship had already started.
It happened in a match I was I before though, our clubmembers who had been watching the match knew our ball was in the hay, our provo was on the green. Opponent and his crew went looking and found our ball buried...[/QUOTE]

Declare it unplayable?

Seve OB · 10-06-2014 05:13PM

What if you were playing in the club championship tournament final and the match was halved at the end of 17 holes. You had the honour and hit your ball a modest 250 yards to the middle of the fairway, leaving a simple six iron to the pin. Your opponent then hits his ball, lofting it deep into the woods to the right of the fairway.

Being the golfing gentleman that you are, you help your opponent look for his ball. Just before the permitted five minute search period ends, your opponent
says: "Go ahead and hit your second shot and if I don't find it in time, I'll concede the match."

You hit your ball, landing it on the green, stopping about 10 feet from the pin. About the time your ball comes to rest, you hear your opponent exclaim from deep in the woods: "I found it!" The second sound you hear is a click, the sound of a club striking a ball and the ball comes sailing out of the woods and lands on the green, stopping no more than six inches from the hole.

Now here is the ethical dilemma:

Do you pull the cheating bastard's ball out of your pocket and confront him with it or do you keep your mouth shut?

slave1 · 10-06-2014 06:06PM

alxmorgan wrote: »

You can take a drop even if not in hazard in unplayable case. Directly in line with pin as far back as you like or two club lengths not nearer the hole.

http://www.randa.org/en/Playing-Golf/Quick-Guide-to-the-Rules/Ball-Unplayable.aspx

Oh agreed, was linking 'drop' with not finding the first ball and just dropping one and carrying on, brainfart as I read your/greebo's post to quickly and failed to notice you mention first ball found...

whatstherush · 10-06-2014 07:06PM

GreeBo wrote: »

If he finds the first then the provisional is null and void, irregardless of its playability; you cant declare the original unplayable and then continue with the provo, you drop or replay the original shot.
.

I had case where my first ball landed within a marked water hazard, but it looked like it was in tall grass just on edge, I then played a provo. I then found ball in long grass still within hazard and managed to play it out. Could I have played my provo in this case as it was within hazard even though I found other?

GreeBo · 10-06-2014 07:08PM

Dbu wrote: »

Probably not, unless the gamesmanship had already started.
It happened in a match I was I before though, our clubmembers who had been watching the match knew our ball was in the hay, our provo was on the green. Opponent and his crew went looking and found our ball buried...

Declare it unplayable?[/QUOTE]

Then you are back to the tee...

Once you find the original the provisional is non existent in the rules of golf.

GreeBo · 10-06-2014 07:11PM

whatstherush wrote: »

I had case where my first ball landed within a marked water hazard, but it looked like it was in tall grass just on edge, I then played a provo. I then found ball in long grass still within hazard and managed to play it out. Could I have played my provo in this case as it was within hazard even though I found other?

Can't play a Provo for a ball in a hazard, I.e. behind the markers, second ball is now ball in play.

SnowDrifts · 10-06-2014 07:15PM

GreeBo wrote: »

Then you are back to the tee...

Once you find the original the provisional is non existent in the rules of golf.

I presume that's exactly what Dbu meant... that instead of having no shot with the found 1st ball - you still could have went back to the tee and played another or, if possible, drop within 2/go back in line with flag.

GreeBo · 10-06-2014 07:18PM

SnowDrifts wrote: »

I presume that's exactly what Dbu meant... that instead of having no shot with the found 1st ball - you still could have went back to the tee and played another or, if possible, drop within 2/go back in line with flag.

Possibly...but then I don't see the point of the comment...?
Thread is about opponents looking for each other's balls, especially when the provisional is in great position.

SnowDrifts · 10-06-2014 07:26PM

GreeBo wrote: »

Possibly...but then I don't see the point of the comment...?
Thread is about opponents looking for each other's balls, especially when the provisional is in great position.

I guess he just read your post below which sort of reads as if it was game over once they found your original when indeed an unplayable lie was an option to take. (which I presume was the option you took)

GreeBo wrote: »

It happened in a match I was I before though, our clubmembers who had been watching the match knew our ball was in the hay, our provo was on the green. Opponent and his crew went looking and found our ball buried...

whatstherush · 10-06-2014 07:54PM

GreeBo wrote: »

Can't play a Provo for a ball in a hazard, I.e. behind the markers, second ball is now ball in play.

So by playing first, should I have been penalised or even by declaring my second shot a provo? Also in case like this that it's not clear cut that ball is in hazard, the provo is no good as it's either your third shot off tee or hope you find first?

GreeBo · 10-06-2014 10:26PM

whatstherush wrote: »

So by playing first, should I have been penalised or even by declaring my second shot a provo? Also in case like this that it's not clear cut that ball is in hazard, the provo is no good as it's either your third shot off tee or hope you find first?

You can only play a provo if you think it may be lost outside a hazard.
If its clearly going to be in the hazard or fine (ie not lost outrside the hazard)

It doesnt have to be clearly in the hazard, remember that you dont have to find it in the hazard. But if you dont have any reason to believe it would be lost outside of the hazard, you cant play a provisional.

A provo is only for a ball that may be lost outside of a hazard.

Its a bit of a messy confusing rule tbh.

ForeRight · 11-06-2014 02:21AM

I played in my club championship matchplay today and actually found my partners ball 3 times when he went way off line.

He was looking in the wrong place, I could tell as I knew where his ball entered the trouble. I went over and found his ball for him.

Id find it a bit sad standing there and not helping him out no matter what way the match was going.

Anatom · 11-06-2014 10:55AM

I would always help my opponent search for his ball. Can't understand why you wouldn't to be honest...

Tiger Mcilroy · 11-06-2014 10:57AM

Anatom wrote: »

I would always help my opponent search for his ball. Can't understand why you wouldn't to be honest...

Yep its the decent thing to do.

Was playing the 18th of an all square singles match last year and my opponent hits a second shot through the back the green with OOB not far away..he was in the rough and i found his ball after a minute or two..he gets up and down for par and takes the match.

Sucks but he was looking in the wrong spot and i could have left him at it.

GreeBo · 11-06-2014 11:03AM

Winning at all costs has a cost imo.

Play the game for what it is, a game.
If a child of mine acted like that in a match I'd clip them around the ear.

Anatom · 11-06-2014 11:13AM

^^ Exactly.

You have to be able to live with yourself as well, and making excuses about "well, he acted like a prat, so it's OK for me to do the same" just don't wash with me.

Wichita Lineman · 11-06-2014 11:23AM

I'd always help to look for a lost ball. What goes around comes around.

PARlance · 11-06-2014 11:28AM

GreeBo wrote: »

Winning at all costs has a cost imo.

Play the game for what it is, a game.
If a child of mine acted like that in a match I'd clip them around the ear.

And a two week ban no doubt

I've only encountered one guy that didn't help a search. It was on the first hole and only 10 mins previously, he had asked us could he join us as his partners had let him down....
He stood at his ball 20 yards away as we searched.

I had asked him on the first tee if he had checked with the Pro Shop to be sure that his partners weren't coming. Of course was the response.

By the time we were on the first green the ranger was out to inform him that his partners were at the first tee waiting on him. He hadn't checked at all. The lads were on the putting green for 20 mins previous.

We were kinda counting our blessings on walk to the second tee as he waited behind.

Helping Opponent Search

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