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Game of Thrones - Episode 4 x 09; 'The Watchers on the Wall' - HAVE read the books

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Comments

  • #152
    Man In The Nip
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11 ✭Man In The Nip


    This show recently surpassed the Sopranos as the most watched TV show in HBO's history. Surely the budget is there for an extra episode or two ? Or even a two hour special finale ?

    It's still gonna be rushed with 66 minutes I think. Between the Hound's fate, Arya going to Braavos, Tyrion and Tywin's showdown, Stannis arriving at the wall, Dany and the dragons, Lady Stoneheart, Bran and the Reeds making it to the red Weirwood in the north.


  • #153
    Witcher
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,480 ✭✭✭✭Witcher


    December2012 wrote: »
    Ah gwan! Remind them of the burnt hand.

    Some of the other people have rubbished the theory so other non readers that see it might doubt it a bit too.

    Doesn't seem like your man is really a reader just that he connected Jon and fire and the fact that Dany survived the pyre. They've nevet explained that Targaryens aren't fireproof in the show so it's a reasonable assumption for people really.


  • #154
    Washington Irving
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,066 ✭✭✭Washington Irving


    spacefly123 wrote: »
    that would be me ;)

    Sneaky...


  • #155
    Duckworth_Luas
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,735 ✭✭✭Duckworth_Luas


    Thread locked!

    Someone posted theories he had read online!


  • #156
    Witcher
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,480 ✭✭✭✭Witcher


    Thread locked....warhammer is coming down:pac:

    This forum will be known as the Ruby Forum from now on.


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  • #157
    spacefly123
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24 ✭spacefly123


    hahaha im pretty sure they closed the thread because of me. oh well, they probably hate Stannis too.


  • #158
    TheGlass
    Closed Accounts Posts: 54 ✭✭TheGlass


    spacefly123 wrote: »
    that would be me ;)

    Book readers shouldn't be commenting on theories at all, poor form


  • #159
    spacefly123
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24 ✭spacefly123


    TheGlass wrote: »
    Book readers shouldn't be commenting on theories at all, poor form

    well its hard not to think of it tbh, even when first reading the books without hearing these theories you cant ignore Jon's heritage like


  • #160
    TheGlass
    Closed Accounts Posts: 54 ✭✭TheGlass


    spacefly123 wrote: »
    well its hard not to think of it tbh, even when first reading the books without hearing these theories you cant ignore Jon's heritage like

    Except nobody has read the books. Clarifying things like who someone is or who's related to who is fine, posting up theories from the books is being a dick


  • #161
    spacefly123
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24 ✭spacefly123


    TheGlass wrote: »
    Except nobody has read the books. Clarifying things like who someone is or who's related to who is fine, posting up theories from the books is being a dick

    what you dont realise is that if you are smart enough you can see this theory from paying attention to the God damn episodes


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  • #162
    TheGlass
    Closed Accounts Posts: 54 ✭✭TheGlass


    spacefly123 wrote: »
    what you dont realise is that if you are smart enough you can see this theory from paying attention to the God damn episodes

    I don't think its been alluded to at all in the series, probably the opposite, with emphasis on how he's Neds bastard, wants to fight for his brothers and Catelyn didn't like him because it reminded her of Neds infidelity


  • #163
    spacefly123
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24 ✭spacefly123


    TheGlass wrote: »
    I don't think its been alluded to at all in the series, probably the opposite, with emphasis on how he's Neds bastard, wants to fight for his brothers and Catelyn didn't like him because it reminded her of Neds infidelity

    from seeing how honourable Ned is, he was married at the time, i doubt he would go and sleep with another woman


  • #164
    FunLover18
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,793 ✭✭✭FunLover18


    Man In The Nip wrote: »
    This show recently surpassed the Sopranos as the most watched TV show in HBO's history. Surely the budget is there for an extra episode or two ? Or even a two hour special finale ?

    It's still gonna be rushed with 66 minutes I think. Between the Hound's fate, Arya going to Braavos, Tyrion and Tywin's showdown, Stannis arriving at the wall, Dany and the dragons, Lady Stoneheart, Bran and the Reeds making it to the red Weirwood in the north.

    I've been thinking that Stannis's arrival may actually be a cliffhanger ending

    Judging by the trailer for the finale
    there's be focusing on Jon's negotiations with Mance
    so I could the final Wall scene being something along the lines of a watcher on the Wall seeing Stannis's banners in the distance or something like that


  • #165
    spacefly123
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24 ✭spacefly123


    i have a feeling its going to be very summarised, D&D gonna ruin it


  • #166
    Witcher
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,480 ✭✭✭✭Witcher


    FunLover18 wrote: »
    I've been thinking that Stannis's arrival may actually be a cliffhanger ending

    Judging by the trailer for the finale
    there's be focusing on Jon's negotiations with Mance
    so I could the final Wall scene being something along the lines of a watcher on the Wall seeing Stannis's banners in the distance or something like that

    Generally if an episode closes like that they'll open the next episode with the follow on...they did it with the aftermath of Blackwater. I think it would be jarring to have a whole episode on one aspect of the story then cut to Dany sitting on her arse in Meereen sulking or something. After an episode like that I think they have to give the payoff quickly.

    If Stannis had turned up the other night it would have been exactly how Blackwater went(saviour swooping in) and I think tht's what the non readers were expecting. They're a bit more doubtful now that someone will turn up so when Stannis comes through in a scene that's not even a battle at first, just Jon and Mance talking it will catch them off guard.


  • #167
    Dyr
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,246 ✭✭✭✭Dyr


    Man In The Nip wrote: »
    It's still gonna be rushed with 66 minutes I think. Between the Hound's fate, Arya going to Braavos, Tyrion and Tywin's showdown, Stannis arriving at the wall, Dany and the dragons, Lady Stoneheart, Bran and the Reeds making it to the red Weirwood in the north.


    I think it could be a good thing, like bang bang bang, every scene a climactic point, with ol lady stoneheart showing up as the sting in the tail


  • #168
    bopper
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,021 ✭✭✭bopper


    I can't see them being able to end the series with anything other than Lady Stonehearts reveal. It would just not flow well if they were to reveal her and then switch to another scene as viewers are still busy picking their jaws up off the floor.


  • #169
    Rips
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 416 ✭✭Rips


    I don't think I'm going to be a fan of season 4, the way its playing out ... they are cramming too much in at the end.

    I thought the pace of the whole episode was very slow, just because there was too much emphasis on the wrong people. There was too much time devoted to Ser Allister, Gilly, Sam shuffling about, too numerous scenes of Sam and Pip, and the big finale of this whole episode devoted to the wall, was ... the death of Ygritte??

    I liked her as a character, I guess I just don't feel it was important enough to have it as the big bang in the second last episode when there is so much left to happen... when the slow motion started ... I got really annoyed!

    I'm going to have to re-watch season 4 just because I'm annoyed with it!


  • #170
    Witcher
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,480 ✭✭✭✭Witcher


    Rips wrote: »
    There was too much time devoted to Ser Allister, Gilly, Sam shuffling about, too numerous scenes of Sam and Pip, and the big finale of this whole episode devoted to the wall, was ... the death of Ygritte??

    Who else would they have focused on? We only know about 10 people in the Watch. The time was well spent on Thorne, proved he could actually back up all his talk from the last few seasons. I know that I always thought book Thorne was the type of person who can only brutalise peasant boys that have never held a sword before but couldn't hack it in a proper scrap.

    We never get to see him fight in the books but Owen Teale did wonders with the character, gave him layers of characterisation that we never saw in the book. I think anyone would have followed him after that speech.


  • #171
    Burt Macklin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 433 ✭✭Burt Macklin


    Blay wrote: »
    We never get to see him fight in the books but Owen Teale did wonders with the character, gave him layers of characterisation that we never saw in the book. I think anyone would have followed him after that speech.

    To be fair, his character was basically merged with Donal Noye. Except Grenn took the heroic death fighting the giant.
    I liked the change though. He reminded me a bit of Bill Rawls in the Wire; comes across as an asshole, but is still concerned about the welfare of his men.


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  • #172
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 19,923 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Was Donal Noye not in an episode recently? Why not just have him die in the tunnel and keep Grenn alive? The showrunners really do make some pointless decisions.


  • #173
    Witcher
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,480 ✭✭✭✭Witcher


    Liam O wrote: »
    Was Donal Noye not in an episode recently? Why not just have him die in the tunnel and keep Grenn alive? The showrunners really do make some pointless decisions.

    Donal Noye isn't in the show. I don't think the non readers would have believed a one armed man could take down a giant.

    They're trying to keep character numbers down atm because there will be a lot of new ones next season ontop of those we already have.


  • #174
    Mickeroo
    Administrators, Computer Games Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 32,607 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Mickeroo


    Liam O wrote: »
    Was Donal Noye not in an episode recently? Why not just have him die in the tunnel and keep Grenn alive? The showrunners really do make some pointless decisions.

    They did the same with Dany's blood riders in season 2, most of them are still ticking in the book too or at least were until recently.


  • #175
    Rips
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 416 ✭✭Rips


    Blay wrote: »
    Who else would they have focused on? We only know about 10 people in the Watch. The time was well spent on Thorne, proved he could actually back up all his talk from the last few seasons. I know that I always thought book Thorne was the type of person who can only brutalise peasant boys that have never held a sword before but couldn't hack it in a proper scrap.

    We never get to see him fight in the books but Owen Teale did wonders with the character, gave him layers of characterisation that we never saw in the book. I think anyone would have followed him after that speech.

    That's exactly why though, the last few seasons the character has been developed to literally be a thorn, a thorn in Jon Snow's side. He's irritating throughout, more so in the books, it makes no sense at all for him to turn into a badass especially in this episode so near the end. The only way that could have made sense would have been if it was just one moment of redemption after he'd realised his errors and had died in the fight.

    It actually undermines Jon's character I think. Its still a hard leap for viewers for Jon to go to commander of the watch, given that one of his harshest critics all along is Thorne, to show that he's actually worth something? Is pointless. One minute he is acknowledging his poor decisions and judgement, the next he is kicking ass. When they have so many major players to deal with?

    And shortly Jon will be commander and Thorne will fizzle off...
    Leaves me asking, what did Jon actually do? He didn't really start to shine until the end, after he came down off the wall, and then he goes to pieces over Ygritte.

    It certainly wasn't the right episode for Sam to shine, they basically used him, to get air time for all the other minor characters, shuffling him around from one to the next, no interesting dialogue really, and it was boring. They could have used Jon for that, seeing as he was to take command, and garner support/respect for whats to come...


  • #176
    Witcher
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,480 ✭✭✭✭Witcher


    Rips wrote: »
    One minute he is acknowledging his poor decisions and judgement, the next he is kicking ass. When they have so many major players to deal with?

    And shortly Jon will be commander and Thorne will fizzle off...
    Leaves me asking, what did Jon actually do? He didn't really start to shine until the end, after he came down off the wall, and then he goes to pieces over Ygritte.

    His speech about leadership was very true though, sometimes you just have to go with one course of action and follow it through. He made the wrong one but sitting and crying about it like Slynt won't save the Wall, he has to do his best to steel the men and the best way to do that is for them to see their leader fighting with them and not hiding at the top of the Wall. Look at what happened in Blackwater when the royal army saw Joffrey leave the city walls; they lost heart.

    Sure what does he do in the books either? Noye kills the giant, Jon just fires arrows from one of the towers and oversees the men at the top throwing barrels of rocks down on the wildlings.

    The men would have seen him fighting in the yard after Thorne had been put out of action, just as he took over when Noye left for the tunnel in the book. Aemon will be able to back him for having helped to save the Wall. Add in Stannis' influence and Sam's behind the scenes deals and he'll be elected just as he was in the book.


  • #177
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 19,923 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    TheGlass wrote: »
    Book readers shouldn't be commenting on theories at all, poor form

    It's getting annoying how this thread is turning into "look at what the tv guys think" and "they don't have a clue", "oh I think he might be a book reader doing secret conspiracy posts". Is it so hard to just discuss the episode in relation to the books without all of this shíte?


  • #178
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 19,923 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Blay wrote: »
    Donal Noye isn't in the show. I don't think the non readers would have believed a one armed man could take down a giant.

    They're trying to keep character numbers down atm because there will be a lot of new ones next season ontop of those we already have.
    Who was it that Ser Alliser consulted a few episodes back about sealing the tunnel? Could have sworn it was him, was expecting him to disagree with Thorne and become the leader.

    Also they are losing Charles Dance, Rose Leslie, Pedro Pascal, Rory McCann and a good few more, McCann and Dance are probably on pretty big money. I don't care about the numbers of characters, don't have meaningless whore characters then.


  • #179
    Witcher
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,480 ✭✭✭✭Witcher


    Liam O wrote: »
    Who was it that Ser Alliser consulted a few episodes back about sealing the tunnel? Could have sworn it was him, was expecting him to disagree with Thorne and become the leader.

    Also they are losing Charles Dance, Rose Leslie, Pedro Pascal, Rory McCann and a good few more, McCann and Dance are probably on pretty big money. I don't care about the numbers of characters, don't have meaningless whore characters then.

    He was the first builder Yarwyck.


  • #180
    Turtyturd
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,404 ✭✭✭✭Turtyturd


    No matter how good the episode is you can predict the 1 or 2 posters who will complain about it.

    Loved it myself. There were so many highlights; the scythe, lowering the brothers over the wall, the recital of the oath in the tunnel, the camera shot panning all of castle black, Jon's entrance to the battle in the courtyard, Jon's hammer skills (which I was convinced they were going to ruin by having Ygritte take out the Thenn when he was about to kill Jon), and the 'I need him more than you' line. No Stannis was a shame but not the show ruining moment that some are claiming.


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  • #181
    Tzar Chasm
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,069 ✭✭✭Tzar Chasm


    A lot of people are complaining about the sam and gilly storyline, but I thout that was one of the better parts of the episode, I felt they had done sam an injustice last season by having him fail with the ravens, so it was great to see him step up to the mark and release his inner zen badass


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