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Milk Price- Please read Mod note in post #1

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Comments

  • #1172
    frazzledhome
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,278 ✭✭✭frazzledhome


    Agree with Freedom not too sure sbout MBA though. Lots of very successful people don't have them or place any meas on them either


  • #1173
    Viewtodiefor
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,217 ✭✭✭Viewtodiefor


    5live wrote: »
    Then you probably shouldn't get the job:-)

    Sure how do you know I'm not already on the board? :-)


  • #1174
    freedominacup
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,920 ✭✭✭freedominacup


    frazzledhome wrote: »
    Agree with Freedom not too sure sbout MBA though. Lots of very successful people don't have them or place any meas on them either

    It's training for the type of work they will be doing. The very successful people you talk about have grown into the roles they have and have acquired the skills along the way. I know many MBA s are not that highly regarded but some form of training is vital for board members esp in the larger co-ops.


  • #1175
    frazzledhome
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,278 ✭✭✭frazzledhome


    freedominacup wrote: »
    It's training for the type of work they will be doing. The very successful people you talk about have grown into the roles they have and have acquired the skills along the way. I know many MBA s are not that highly regarded but some form of training is vital for board members esp in the larger co-ops.


    Training deffo required but I feel MBA over valued. It has actually become a bit if s gravy train


  • #1176
    Greengrass1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,493 ✭✭✭Greengrass1


    http://www.agriland.ie/news/first-meeting-milk-market-observatory/


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  • #1177
    sheebadog
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,246 ✭✭✭sheebadog


    Panch18 wrote: »
    I think this is a good point

    You need top class business men in charge of the coops - not top class farmers. It's a different ball game

    It shouldn't be. Top class farmer has to be a top class businessman.
    Also the farmer is playing with his own money while employees play with someone else's money.


  • #1178
    frazzledhome
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,278 ✭✭✭frazzledhome


    sheebadog wrote: »
    It shouldn't be. Top class farmer has to be a top class businessman.
    Also the farmer is playing with his own money while employees play with someone else's money.

    +++++1


  • #1179
    Panch18
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,471 ✭✭✭Panch18


    sheebadog wrote: »
    It shouldn't be. Top class farmer has to be a top class businessman.
    Also the farmer is playing with his own money while employees play with someone else's money.

    I disagree on two points
    • we would have much better run Coops if the boards, made up of independent non farmers, were given specific criteria and targets to achieve and the parameters around which these should be achieved. There is too much politics around appointing farmers to boards - look no further than Glanbia and whats been going on with some of their appointments. Look at the political nature of the Glanbia vote last year, the friction in Wexford. It's a joke. You look at the likes of Maloney and Brosnan and see what they can do and how they pushed their companies forward. Let them do it
    • I disagree completely about top class farmers being top class businessmen. Maybe going forward it will turn into that but certainly not the case at the moment. We have a farmer near us who Teagasc would herald as a "pioneer" because he has entered a couple of partnerships. Whilst he is a good farmer, (grass, cows, solids all good) these partnerships are 1 of the most stupid business decisions I have ever seen. And I am not using the word stupid lightly here. But yet you question the decision and everyone says he's doing great bla bla bla. Very few farmers have real vision or real plans IMO, And very few have the ability to truly weigh up a good decision versus a bad 1. Our Coops need vision, they need joined up thinking, they need long term plans.


  • #1180
    frazzledhome
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,278 ✭✭✭frazzledhome


    Could you elaborate on the stupidity of partnerships and collaborations?


  • #1181
    freedominacup
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,920 ✭✭✭freedominacup


    Panch18 wrote: »
    I disagree on two points
    • we would have much better run Coops if the boards, made up of independent non farmers, were given specific criteria and targets to achieve and the parameters around which these should be achieved. There is too much politics around appointing farmers to boards - look no further than Glanbia and whats been going on with some of their appointments. Look at the political nature of the Glanbia vote last year, the friction in Wexford. It's a joke. You look at the likes of Maloney and Brosnan and see what they can do and how they pushed their companies forward. Let them do it
    • I disagree completely about top class farmers being top class businessmen. Maybe going forward it will turn into that but certainly not the case at the moment. We have a farmer near us who Teagasc would herald as a "pioneer" because he has entered a couple of partnerships. Whilst he is a good farmer, (grass, cows, solids all good) these partnerships are 1 of the most stupid business decisions I have ever seen. And I am not using the word stupid lightly here. But yet you question the decision and everyone says he's doing great bla bla bla. Very few farmers have real vision or real plans IMO, And very few have the ability to truly weigh up a good decision versus a bad 1. Our Coops need vision, they need joined up thinking, they need long term plans.

    Who polices the police though panch? We still have to have someone directly appointed by the shareholders giving these independents direction. What would be your criteria for selecting/electing these people?


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  • #1182
    Panch18
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,471 ✭✭✭Panch18


    frazzledhome wrote: »
    Could you elaborate on the stupidity of partnerships and collaborations?

    Sure.

    Married into a very well run dairy farm. Probably 150 acres, 80-90 good cows and a calf to year and half system. No borrowings, set up pretty good

    Gets into a partnership with a guy, about 50 acres 35-40k gallons. All milk on the main place, calves and heifers in the smaller place. Gets into another partnership again 50-60 acres 40k gallons. Silage being cut from this place

    So now he's milking circa 160 cows but it's being divided in 3, he getting no more than half, the cows are paying rent for the out farms to the other partners, they are paying 1 of the partners for all the machinery work he does.

    And the other partners never milk the cows, 1 of them is absolutely never, the other a very odd day but won't cover the guys holidays

    I think that about covers it


  • #1183
    Panch18
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,471 ✭✭✭Panch18


    freedominacup wrote: »
    Who polices the police though panch? We still have to have someone directly appointed by the shareholders giving these independents direction. What would be your criteria for selecting/electing these people?

    Well that's the problem, but not a problem unique to our coops. Same with any Plc I would suggest

    Appointing the right man is obviously the key, Brosnan and Maloney made their companies, henchy nearly broke his


  • #1184
    farmersfriend
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 518 ✭✭✭farmersfriend


    Panch18 wrote: »
    Well that's the problem, but not a problem unique to our coops. Same with any Plc I would suggest

    Appointing the right man is obviously the key, Brosnan and Maloney made their companies, henchy nearly broke his

    U won't see a queue of people for those co op board jobs because as soon as a farmer agrees to do the job a lot of the shareholders think he is fair game to be hassled and abused. Truth is that politics is a rotten job- very little satisfaction to be got from it. like everything some lads are better suited to it than others, how come its always the fella who won't stand for election thinks he has all the answers when he only knows a quarter of what would be going on?


  • #1185
    sheebadog
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,246 ✭✭✭sheebadog


    Panch18 wrote: »
    I disagree on two points
    • we would have much better run Coops if the boards, made up of independent non farmers, were given specific criteria and targets to achieve and the parameters around which these should be achieved. There is too much politics around appointing farmers to boards - look no further than Glanbia and whats been going on with some of their appointments. Look at the political nature of the Glanbia vote last year, the friction in Wexford. It's a joke. You look at the likes of Maloney and Brosnan and see what they can do and how they pushed their companies forward. Let them do it
    • I disagree completely about top class farmers being top class businessmen. Maybe going forward it will turn into that but certainly not the case at the moment. We have a farmer near us who Teagasc would herald as a "pioneer" because he has entered a couple of partnerships. Whilst he is a good farmer, (grass, cows, solids all good) these partnerships are 1 of the most stupid business decisions I have ever seen. And I am not using the word stupid lightly here. But yet you question the decision and everyone says he's doing great bla bla bla. Very few farmers have real vision or real plans IMO, And very few have the ability to truly weigh up a good decision versus a bad 1. Our Coops need vision, they need joined up thinking, they need long term plans.

    Panch, first point: putting parameters on a good (best) business brain is ridiculous. End of.
    Second point : agree on politics, but a good businessman will use political nous.

    Last point. Whoever said Teagasc would know a good farmer (businessman) ?
    Civil servants. What the feck would Teagasc know about business?


  • #1186
    frazzledhome
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,278 ✭✭✭frazzledhome


    So what you're saying is that this partnership according to your info isn't working. I thought you meant all partnerships


  • #1187
    Panch18
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,471 ✭✭✭Panch18


    frazzledhome wrote: »
    So what you're saying is that this partnership according to your info isn't working. I thought you meant all partnerships

    No partnerships can, do and will have a part to play going forward

    From this guy business point of view it is pure madness, giving the asset he started with and the potential it had to grow


  • #1188
    Panch18
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,471 ✭✭✭Panch18


    sheebadog wrote: »
    Panch, first point: putting parameters on a good (best) business brain is ridiculous.
    Disagree completely with this, i would say that nearly every multi national business has parameters which they operate to. How broad or narrow those parameters are is the key to allowing a good businessman to operate

    But they most definately operate within boundaries


  • #1189
    sheebadog
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,246 ✭✭✭sheebadog


    Panch18 wrote: »
    Disagree completely with this, i would say that nearly every multi national business has parameters which they operate to. How broad or narrow those parameters are is the key to allowing a good businessman to operate

    But they most definately operate within boundaries

    You've a bit to learn!
    Start by putting parameters on bankers.

    Lookit. I've had two Ernest and Young "entrepreneurs of the year" work for me and I must say I should have learned my lesson the first time.
    Parameters? Parameters?.......don't get me started.


  • #1190
    Greengrass1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,493 ✭✭✭Greengrass1


    Panch18 wrote: »
    No partnerships can, do and will have a part to play going forward

    From this guy business point of view it is pure madness, giving the asset he started with and the potential it had to grow

    Then why did you bring partnerships into it?
    Someone has a chip on there shoulder maybe?
    I know a fair few lads in partnerships that grew there business and I wouldn't count them as idiots


  • #1191
    Panch18
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,471 ✭✭✭Panch18


    Greengrass1 wrote: »
    Then why did you bring partnerships into it?
    Someone has a chip on there shoulder maybe?

    No chips in any shoulders here, why should I

    The partnership was an example where a fella is a good farmer but not a good business person and made poor business decisions


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  • #1192
    frazzledhome
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,278 ✭✭✭frazzledhome


    Panch18 wrote: »
    No chips in any shoulders here, why should I

    The partnership was an example where a fella is a good farmer but not a good business person and made poor business decisions

    How can you make this judgement. You don't know what the profit share is.


  • #1193
    whitebriar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,745 ✭✭✭whitebriar


    Could we get back to discussing milk price and the general lack thereof?


  • #1194
    5live
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,438 ✭✭✭5live


    Panch18 wrote: »
    No chips in any shoulders here, why should I

    The partnership was an example where a fella is a good farmer but not a good business person and made poor business decisions

    Its just one example of a bad business decision, based on your information.

    It doesn't mean ALL partnerships are destined to fail.

    Just in my locality I can take you to a number working quite well and preparing for expansion while taking a good wage and every second weekend off, every second evening off and 2-3 weeks holidays every year.


  • #1195
    Panch18
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,471 ✭✭✭Panch18


    frazzledhome wrote: »
    How can you make this judgement. You don't know what the profit share is.

    Whatever the profit share is, it's a ridiculous decision


  • #1196
    Oldtree
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,109 ✭✭✭Oldtree


    [MOD]

    Back to Milk Price please

    [/MOD]


  • #1197
    frazzledhome
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,278 ✭✭✭frazzledhome


    Panch18 wrote: »
    Whatever the profit share is, it's a ridiculous decision

    No point here, you just can't back it up


  • #1198
    Panch18
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,471 ✭✭✭Panch18


    5live wrote: »
    Its just one example of a bad business decision, based on your information.

    It doesn't mean ALL partnerships are destined to fail.

    Just in my locality I can take you to a number working quite well and preparing for expansion while taking a good wage and every second weekend off, every second evening off and 2-3 weeks holidays every year.

    Last word from me on this to clarify

    When I said these stupid partnerships I was only referring to the 2 partnerships that my example farmer entered. Nothing more


  • #1199
    Panch18
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,471 ✭✭✭Panch18


    frazzledhome wrote: »
    No point here, you just can't back it up

    Look if you have a well set up farm capable of milking 200 cows with a bit if rented ground for heifers and you get involved with 2 others who are draining profits from your farm then it's a stupid business decision.

    But whatever ye think yerselves.


  • #1200
    Oldtree
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,109 ✭✭✭Oldtree


    [MOD]

    No more warnings, that is the last word.

    Start a new thread for anything that isn't Milk Price.

    [/MOD]


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  • #1201
    red bull
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,390 ✭✭✭red bull


    What will Arrabawn pay for May milk ?


This discussion has been closed.
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