Homeless "spikes" being put down at London establishments

Sir Osis of Liver. · 09-06-2014 02:55PM

I was expecting the spikes to be more impressive,something razor sharp in the style of Vlad the Impaler.

endacl · 09-06-2014 02:59PM

Awaiting the Daily Fail article warning of hordes of homeless circus performers descending on London, making bunk beds out of the spikes...

mikom · 09-06-2014 02:59PM

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

I think the owners of this property have denied this but it seems fairly blatant all the same.

In London "The Destitute Are Now Considered Vermin"

The narrative of the rich having bought London and now forcing out "the (much poorer) natives" has resonances with the past in many places too but maybe that is another argument. To treat people who have lost everything or have nothing in this way seems really bad to me.

Any thoughts on this?

Shower of pricks.

Legs.Eleven · 09-06-2014 03:00PM

bluewolf wrote: »

Hm

is this it?
Changes in government policy designed to improve the accommodation standards for hostel dwellers closed an estimated 5,000 places in London hostels.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rough_Sleepers_Initiative

I can see that happening here also with people calling for bedsits to be taken off the market for poor standards. The problem is that then there is no affordable alternative for people who would willingly rent them

That's the one. I remember my brother explaining the situation to me when I was a child as his favourite band, Madness, had written a song about a famous homeless shelter called Arlington House, which housed many Irish in the 70s and he got interested in the issue because of it. Here's the song:

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=madness+one+better+day

and here's the story:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arlington_House_(London)

lolosaur · 09-06-2014 03:00PM

Pugsly wrote: »

Something tells me if word got out that people were being paid to move from certain places the problem wouldn't go away.

Also, that notion contradicts your whole "help them out, their humasn beings too" aspect. that wouldnt do at all. then the wealthier are at fault for not giving them enough money.

Jesus, what exactly do people want others to do about the homeless?

invite them in, give the cash? what else? f**k my wife cause they havent had the ride for a bit.

Maybe give them the lend of the car so they can go on holiday and live rough by the seaside for a few days. everyone needs a holiday.

how condescending.

2 options.

Concentration camp until they are ready to re enter society.

Army. break them and rebuild them.

Probably cruel on both counts on those poor unfortunates.

end of the road · 09-06-2014 03:00PM

lolosaur wrote: »

erm, yes they do. if it was a farmer, it would be a shotgun they would be getting.

for which they would be jailed for behaving like vermin

end of the road · 09-06-2014 03:05PM

lolosaur wrote: »

Also, that notion contradicts your whole "help them out, their humasn beings too" aspect. that wouldnt do at all. then the wealthier are at fault for not giving them enough money.

Jesus, what exactly do people want others to do about the homeless?

invite them in, give the cash? what else? f**k my wife cause they havent had the ride for a bit.

Maybe give them the lend of the car so they can go on holiday and live rough by the seaside for a few days. everyone needs a holiday.

how condescending.

2 options.

Concentration camp until they are ready to re enter society.

Army. break them and rebuild them.

Probably cruel on both counts on those poor unfortunates.

laughable and pointless, i wouldn't blame them for not wanting to be part of society when they have to share it with someone who thinks Concentration camps or the army are the answer to the worlds problems

Jamiekelly · 09-06-2014 03:06PM

Nothing like a homeless thread to show who the true cnuts are on here

lolosaur and urabell

lolosaur · 09-06-2014 03:28PM

end of the road wrote: »

laughable and pointless, i wouldn't blame them for not wanting to be part of society when they have to share it with someone who thinks Concentration camps or the army are the answer to the worlds problems

I stopped short of putting them down.

thats a bit unfair.

whats your grand plan for them then?

we dealt with unwanted child pregnancies by putting them in a septic tank.

We dealt with old people by putting them far away in old folks homes where they are brutally treated.

We dealt with the handicapped by crippling them further, taking their assistance away, their allowances away, their dignity and respect away.

look at the society you live in and you have the gall to question me over not wanting to help people who are given every chance under the sun????? **** them. sincerely.

Pick your battles. you dont genuinely give a flying **** about the homeless. It's cause of the week. next week it'll be the favelas in brazil or the pakistanis making soccer balls.

Me hoop to the amount of 2 faced one uppers in this thread. scandlous how you can jump on an honest opinion and treat it with such contempt.

smellmepower · 09-06-2014 03:34PM

Sure the council already go around (accompanied by police officers) and spray water around areas where the homeless are likely to bed down,in touristy areas of London in the evenings.I'd say the UK government would be delighted for a really cold winter this year so the numbers of those feckless homeless folk thin out a bit.

Shameful stuff altogether,seems to be the way the world is going though.

StinkyMunkey · 09-06-2014 03:41PM

The King of Moo wrote: »

YES, YOU HAVE NO OTHER OPTIONS!!

Its the governments responsibility to provides options, not a home owners/property owners.

StinkyMunkey · 09-06-2014 03:48PM

end of the road wrote: »

find something other then spikes, you know, a good strong gate, anyone who uses spikes and something happens should be bankrupted and property taken by the state as they can't be trusted to be a responsible owner

So its a home owners/property owners place to spend thousands building gates and fencing? Eh no, spikes work just fine and are alot cheaper. And only a numpty puts spikes like that on a main thoroughfare.

Example:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/property/propertynews/10883541/Homeless-spikes-installed-outside-London-flats.html

Could you fall on them? yes you could, but rather that than a used needle or steaming turd.

Garzard · 09-06-2014 03:48PM

Don't necessarily agree with the spikes, especially when the corner could've been bricked / barred up but can't disagree with the principal of it, having homeless people camped this close outside an entrance can't be great for business nor the place's rep especially when it comes to addicts, let alone the mess and intimidation often caused.

That said, popular begging spots e.g. ATM machines need to have more deterrents put in place over sleeping spots.

lolosaur · 09-06-2014 03:48PM

StinkyMunkey wrote: »

Its the governments responsibility to provides options, not a home owners/property owners.

Technically, it should be your own responsibility to look after yourself.

I dont think you can pin the failings of an individual on a state.

the state do provide but at what point do you stop? look at how the social welfare in this country is obscenely taken advantage of?

The Diabolical Monocle · 09-06-2014 03:54PM

bluewolf wrote: »

Didn't they copy that from china or something

Cant be, innit.

I mean ..... you never see an 'omeless Chinese person.

lolosaur · 09-06-2014 04:02PM

The Diabolical Monocle wrote: »

Cant be, innit.

I mean ..... you never see an 'omeless Chinese person.

Well, except for Ken 'om....

StinkyMunkey · 09-06-2014 04:02PM

lolosaur wrote: »

I stopped short of putting them down.

thats a bit unfair.

whats your grand plan for them then?

we dealt with unwanted child pregnancies by putting them in a septic tank.

We dealt with old people by putting them far away in old folks homes where they are brutally treated.

We dealt with the handicapped by crippling them further, taking their assistance away, their allowances away, their dignity and respect away.

look at the society you live in and you have the gall to question me over not wanting to help people who are given every chance under the sun????? **** them. sincerely.

Pick your battles. you dont genuinely give a flying **** about the homeless. It's cause of the week. next week it'll be the favelas in brazil or the pakistanis making soccer balls.

Me hoop to the amount of 2 faced one uppers in this thread. scandlous how you can jump on an honest opinion and treat it with such contempt.

While i agree with a lot of what you said in that post, you have to bear in mind that being homeless and mentally ill go hand in hand. The vast majority of the homeless dont decide to go down that route, its a severe side affect of deeper issues.

StinkyMunkey · 09-06-2014 04:05PM

lolosaur wrote: »

Technically, it should be your own responsibility to look after yourself.

I dont think you can pin the failings of an individual on a state.

the state do provide but at what point do you stop? look at how the social welfare in this country is obscenely taken advantage of?

Its not my responsibility to provide anything for the homeless. The rests on the government. Im responsible for what happens on my property, and if i had homeless people using it as a shelter, id take steps to stop that.

lolosaur · 09-06-2014 04:08PM

StinkyMunkey wrote: »

While i agree with a lot of what you said in that post, you have to bear in mind that being homeless and mentally ill go hand in hand. The vast majority of the homeless dont decide to go down that route, its a severe side affect of deeper issues.

It sure is.

alcoholism, depression,mental illness of all shapes and sizes.

you need a grounding for them to get back into reality. so some form of camp or army living like a boot camp to have them fed, watered, showered, shaved, dressed, excercised, sober would be of benefit.

people dont want that though, they want homeless people to stay in my spare bedroom and to provide 25 hour a day councilling service. lets fix the problem. lets mend her daddy issues. lets get to the root of why he is an alcoholic. lets give him that gamblohlics anonymous help and get him back into society. the sheer scale of manpower and money it would take for everyone to be seen that is homeless. maybe stop everyone getting the dole and use that money? or maybe tax people earning over, say 35k so that can be used to feed, clothed and massage the mental well being of the less fortunate.

lolosaur · 09-06-2014 04:09PM

StinkyMunkey wrote: »

Its not my responsibility to provide anything for the homeless. The rests on the government. Im responsible for what happens on my property, and if i had homeless people using it as a shelter, id take steps to stop that.

agreed.

urabell · 09-06-2014 04:09PM

lolosaur wrote: »

Also, that notion contradicts your whole "help them out, their humasn beings too" aspect. that wouldnt do at all. then the wealthier are at fault for not giving them enough money.

Jesus, what exactly do people want others to do about the homeless?

invite them in, give the cash? what else? f**k my wife cause they havent had the ride for a bit.

Maybe give them the lend of the car so they can go on holiday and live rough by the seaside for a few days. everyone needs a holiday.

Can't believe people are tarring me with the same idiot brush as you.

We should help the homeless, if you have time or the resources you'd be remiss not too. The difference her is the imposition of the homeless on people's private property. Just as you should help them, they should not impose themselves on you. Your examples are miles off and nobody was remotely suggesting anything like it.

lolosaur wrote: »

how condescending.

2 options.

Concentration camp until they are ready to re enter society.

Army. break them and rebuild them.

Probably cruel on both counts on those poor unfortunates.

At this point I've come to the conclusion you're trolling but you don't have the wit or intelligence to do it convincingly.

Concentration camps? Please explain how this helps anyone. Do you even understand what the concept of these camps was?

The army? yes exactly what we need is to take a group fraught with emotional issues and mental illness and give them guns on taxpayers money. This is before we address the morality of forced conscription.

My issue was with the fact people could not see the issue that homeless people could cause for private citizens and the unwillingness to accept one's right to defend their property.

The government needs to do more to combat this issue, not private citizens. (though we should, but only to the extent we choose to do so willingly)

Really can't have people thinking we're on the same wavelength

StinkyMunkey · 09-06-2014 04:17PM

lolosaur wrote: »

It sure is.

alcoholism, depression,mental illness of all shapes and sizes.

you need a grounding for them to get back into reality. so some form of camp or army living like a boot camp to have them fed, watered, showered, shaved, dressed, excercised, sober would be of benefit.

people dont want that though, they want homeless people to stay in my spare bedroom and to provide 25 hour a day councilling service. lets fix the problem. lets mend her daddy issues. lets get to the root of why he is an alcoholic. lets give him that gamblohlics anonymous help and get him back into society. the sheer scale of manpower and money it would take for everyone to be seen that is homeless. maybe stop everyone getting the dole and use that money? or maybe tax people earning over, say 35k so that can be used to feed, clothed and massage the mental well being of the less fortunate.

A lot of things do need to be addressed, but at the same time it has to be grounded in reality. Sending the homeless to camps is not a viable option. Providing more homeless shelters and better treatments are.

I dont see the homeless as some scourge on society, but i dont see it as my problem either. This is why i pay a third of my wages in taxes, and tax on everything i buy. I have the upmost respect for people who volunteer their spare time to help the homeless, but i have zero respect for the people who whinge and moan about how these people are being treated, all the while sipping their coco and sitting in a nice warm room typing.

lolosaur · 09-06-2014 04:29PM

urabell wrote: »

Can't believe people are tarring me with the same idiot brush as you.

We should help the homeless, if you have time or the resources you'd be remiss not too. The difference her is the imposition of the homeless on people's private property. Just as you should help them, they should not impose themselves on you. Your examples are miles off and nobody was remotely suggesting anything like it.

At this point I've come to the conclusion you're trolling but you don't have the wit or intelligence to do it convincingly.

Concentration camps? Please explain how this helps anyone. Do you even understand what the concept of these camps was?

The army? yes exactly what we need is to take a group fraught with emotional issues and mental illness and give them guns on taxpayers money. This is before we address the morality of forced conscription.

My issue was with the fact people could not see the issue that homeless people could cause for private citizens and the unwillingness to accept one's right to defend their property.

The government needs to do more to combat this issue, not private citizens. (though we should, but only to the extent we choose to do so willingly)

Really can't have people thinking we're on the same wavelength

so you are now of the line where we should help the homeless but keep them away from your house? and it is the governments fault for this?

Also, if you cant grasp the notion of the concentration camp i am proposing, i shall call it "re-integration camp" or maybe superhappyfunclub.

At least im proposing something to get them out of the doorways and get help rather then just "oh, thats a bad problem, im angry about this"

Legs.Eleven · 09-06-2014 04:34PM

Ah deary me.

end of the road · 09-06-2014 04:43PM

lolosaur wrote: »

I stopped short of putting them down.

thats a bit unfair.

whats your grand plan for them then?

we dealt with unwanted child pregnancies by putting them in a septic tank.

We dealt with old people by putting them far away in old folks homes where they are brutally treated.

We dealt with the handicapped by crippling them further, taking their assistance away, their allowances away, their dignity and respect away.

look at the society you live in and you have the gall to question me over not wanting to help people who are given every chance under the sun????? **** them. sincerely.

Pick your battles. you dont genuinely give a flying **** about the homeless. It's cause of the week. next week it'll be the favelas in brazil or the pakistanis making soccer balls.

Me hoop to the amount of 2 faced one uppers in this thread. scandlous how you can jump on an honest opinion and treat it with such contempt.

do you think i condone what those evil bastards did to those children? you think because i find what happened there discusting that i'm just "jumping on a cause" if i was able to do anything about such issues i'd be doing it, however i can't alone, we have a government who's job it is to find the resources to sort out the problems in society, but shur i'm only jumping on a cause it will be something else next week so what do i know? shur everythings all grand fine and dandy. yes your right i'm treating an honest opinion which suggests concentration camps to sort out problems with the contempt it deserves and i'm not one bit sorry

end of the road · 09-06-2014 04:50PM

StinkyMunkey wrote: »

So its a home owners/property owners place to spend thousands building gates and fencing?

i know lads who could build you some strong gates and fencing for a few quid, thousands me arse

StinkyMunkey wrote: »

spikes work just fine and are alot cheaper.

yeah, for terrorists who want to inflict as much injoury on someone as they can for having the miss-fortune to be homeless so they can be self righteous and bleet about being "da poor property owner my life is so hard"

StinkyMunkey wrote: »

only a numpty puts spikes like that on a main thoroughfare.

absolutely agree, infact i'd extend it to in general. take their property, bankrupt them.

StinkyMunkey wrote: »

Could you fall on them? yes you could, but rather that than a used needle or steaming turd.

yeah, shur its grand, wait until a case goes to court or the insurence refuses to pay out they will be gone very quick

end of the road · 09-06-2014 04:57PM

lolosaur wrote: »

you need a grounding for them to get back into reality. so some form of camp or army living like a boot camp to have them fed, watered, showered, shaved, dressed, excercised, sober would be of benefit.

it doesn't work, if it did it would be done

lolosaur wrote: »

people dont want that though

exactly, because it fails, never worked never will work

lolosaur wrote: »

they want homeless people to stay in my spare bedroom

they don't

lolosaur wrote: »

to provide 25 hour a day councilling service. lets fix the problem. lets mend her daddy issues. lets get to the root of why he is an alcoholic. lets give him that gamblohlics anonymous help and get him back into society.

a day is 24 hours not 25, and shock horror that one would want to get to the route of the problem, if you don't they will fall back into the same situation again, that has been recognized so if you try to deny it it will be a pointless exercise

StinkyMunkey · 09-06-2014 04:59PM

end of the road wrote: »

i know lads who could build you some strong gates and fencing for a few quid, thousands me arse

yeah, for terrorists who want to inflict as much injoury on someone as they can for having the miss-fortune to be homeless so they can be self righteous and bleet about being "da poor property owner my life is so hard"

absolutely agree, infact i'd extend it to in general. take their property, bankrupt them.

yeah, shur its grand, wait until a case goes to court or the insurence refuses to pay out they will be gone very quick

A few quid (how much is a few quid)?? these guys pay tax or is it off the books?

Correct, it is misfortunate to be homeless, but your on crack if you think im gonna pay a mortgage so some homeless person can avail of the space/porperty:rolleyes:.

Seems to be working just fine at the moment, scare mongering is fine once you have facts about the serious injuries/deaths caused by these anti homeless spikes. But then again, why let facts get in the way of a good story - the newspapers dont anyway.

JONJO THE MISER · 09-06-2014 05:04PM

About bloody time i say.
Last winter i was confronted by the most unseemly sight of some street person asleep outside my building with a rather pungent odour emanating from them.
Put me right off my organic pomegranate and red berry juice.

WilyCoyote · 09-06-2014 05:08PM

I lived in London for about 15 years. In that time I did voluntary work for about 2 years - soup running, clothes distribution, getting people into hostels etc.
Quite a lot of the street people were there by choice. Only a small minority had alcohol problems and drug problems were not as prevalent as they are today. Many suffered from a plethora of mental/personality disorders which left them unable to adjust to life in a hostel - where rules had to be kept in order to maintain an even keel. Coincidentally, some of the hostels were called Spikes in the old days.
The voluntary body that I was with, specifically targeted young people new to the streets, in an effort to guide them away from becoming a statistic. We were up against pimps, groomers, Fagins, criminals and enslavers. Am sorry to say the percentage that would be regarded as a success was quite small. Quite often, our advice and aid (given without prejudice) fell on deaf ears or to them life at the far side seemed more attractive. Most came from bad situations at home.
As regards the problem of people sleeping on your doorstep etc, I fully understand why some harsh methods are invoked.
Life in the animal kingdom was never a level playing field.

Homeless "spikes" being put down at London establishments

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