Homeless "spikes" being put down at London establishments

Kermit.de.frog · 09-06-2014 01:03PM #1

I think the owners of this property have denied this but it seems fairly blatant all the same.

In London "The Destitute Are Now Considered Vermin"

First, the world's oligarchs slowly but surely took over London real estate, where as we reported last week, home prices in May soared by the most in 12 years, and now, according to the Telegraph, in order to make London into an even more exclusive enclave where only the uber-wealthy can rub shoulders, assorted luxury buildings are installing metal spikes on the ground outside to fully deter homeless people from sleeping (and hence living) there. In other words, in London homeless people have been relegated to pigeon status, as the same technique has been long used to prevent rats with wings from landing, and defecating, at select locations.

...

The narrative of the rich having bought London and now forcing out "the (much poorer) natives" has resonances with the past in many places too but maybe that is another argument. To treat people who have lost everything or have nothing in this way seems really bad to me.

Any thoughts on this?

*fixed link

urabell · 09-06-2014 01:09PM

Anyone against this should allow the winos in question to sleep and piss in their doorways.

UCDVet · 09-06-2014 01:09PM

Meh - it's easy to say, 'Oh that's awful! Those poor people have no place to go...'

But would you want to leave your home each day and see homeless people sleeping against your building? Would you want to rent an apartment with homeless people outside of it? For most people, the answer is 'no'.

I wouldn't.

I'm happy to pay taxes that support social programs that benefit the poor/homeless. But being homeless doesn't (in my opinion) give people a free-pass to sleep wherever they want.

Alf. A. Male · 09-06-2014 01:10PM

I agree, it's a poor reflection on society that the instinct of so many is to treat people as a problem rather than treating people's problems.

OneEightSeven · 09-06-2014 01:11PM

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

To treat people who have lost everything or have nothing in this way seems really bad to me.

Why don't you let them sleep on your doorstep then?

Mr_Red · 09-06-2014 01:11PM

Person -> Fall -> Injury -> Sue -> Removal -> End of story

BeerWolf · 09-06-2014 01:11PM

Spikes... how welcoming to see them while visiting - or they inside the ground, to which they're activated to impale aforementioned homeless people ?!

o1s1n · 09-06-2014 01:12PM

Are they not just asking for trouble by using spike shapes? Imagine someone tripped and smacked their head off one of them.

Would make more sense to use ball type shapes (you know the ones you see along railings/steps etc to deter skateboarders)

urabell · 09-06-2014 01:12PM

Mr_Red wrote: »

Person - Fall - Injury - Sue - Removal - End of story

You can say that about steps, about bicycle racks, about just about anything.

09-06-2014 01:14PM

Didn't they copy that from china or something

Kermit.de.frog · 09-06-2014 01:14PM

urabell wrote: »

Anyone against this should allow the winos in question to sleep and piss in their doorways.

I hope you never have to sleep in a doorway due to any misfortune. You might change your tune pretty quick.

Fair enough many addict and low life homeless out there, I agree. Equally many who have just fallen on hard times and that will get worse now when banks come looking for properties.

Mr_Red · 09-06-2014 01:14PM

urabell wrote: »

You can say that about steps, about bicycle racks, about just about anything.

Spikes in the ground do not benefit the public

My name is URL · 09-06-2014 01:18PM

They could just lay a bit of plywood down over it. Then they'd have a nice raised platform to keep them dry and a bit warmer!

urabell · 09-06-2014 01:19PM

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

I hope you never have to sleep in a doorway due to any misfortune. You might change your tune pretty quick.

Fair enough many addict and low life homeless out there, I agree. Equally many who have just fallen on hard times and that will get worse now when banks come looking for properties.

"… if hunger were once allowed to be an excuse for stealing, it would open a door through which all kinds of lawlessness and disorder would pass... . If homelessness were once admitted as a defence to trespass, no one's house could be safe. Necessity would open a door which no man could shut. It would not only be those in extreme need who would enter. There would be others who would imagine that they were in need, or would invent a need, so as to gain entry."

per Lord Denning in Southwark LBC v Williams [1971]

I do my bit for the homeless but there's a line

Mr_Red wrote: »

Spike is the ground do not benefit the public

Yes they do

And that isn't the standard used for things that might cause you to trip and fall

Deise Packers · 09-06-2014 01:20PM

Blast em with piss?

Murt10 · 09-06-2014 01:20PM

It's also going to effect ODC'c (ordinary decent criminals) going about their work.

Wonder what happens if a dog gets impaled. The Brits would see this as a much bigger problem.

o1s1n · 09-06-2014 01:20PM

urabell wrote: »

Yes they do

How so?

SEPT 23 1989 · 09-06-2014 01:23PM

A nice raised bed of flowers would be more visually appealing than Mega-City 1 style spikes

Mr_Red · 09-06-2014 01:24PM

urabell wrote: »

Yes they do

Oh please do explain exactly how spikes in the ground benefit the public in every day life?

I'm intrigued

e_e · 09-06-2014 01:26PM

It's like something George Orwell would write.

urabell · 09-06-2014 01:26PM

o1s1n wrote: »

How so?

Benefit the public doesn't mean benefit young idealists who are happy for the homeless to encroach on the property of large city establishments because they feel sorry for them.

It also doesn't mean benefit the public as a whole.
It does benefit the customers and staff of such establishments who don't have to deal with drunk, loud, homeless people. Like it or not those sleeping on the streets are those on the streets are usually those with far reaching mental and social problems who don't mix well with others.

Like I said ( and really don't like saying Matthew 6:1-4) but it seems relevant here is that I do help the homeless but allowing them to sleep in the doorway of a business isn't helping anyone.

My name is URL · 09-06-2014 01:27PM

e_e wrote: »

It's like something George Orwell would write.

Or Sonic the Hedgehog developers

anncoates · 09-06-2014 01:28PM

I remember seeing pictures of public benches in LA in the 1990s that were tubular to stop homeless people sleeping on them.

As for the spikes, I can just see a kid stepping on them and getting a big claim.

BizzyC · 09-06-2014 01:28PM

Interesting take on the spikes:
http://imsorrythatimlikethis.wordpress.com/2014/06/07/the-spikes/

Kermit.de.frog · 09-06-2014 01:28PM

urabell wrote: »

far reaching mental problems who don't mix well with others.

And your answer to their "mental problems" is to make life even worse and have them isolated even more?

Kermit.de.frog · 09-06-2014 01:28PM

urabell wrote: »

far reaching mental problems who don't mix well with others.

double post

o1s1n · 09-06-2014 01:34PM

urabell wrote: »

Benefit the public doesn't mean benefit young idealists who are happy for the homeless to encroach on the property of large city establishments because they feel sorry for them.

How patronizing.

urabell wrote: »

It also doesn't mean benefit the public as a whole.
It does benefit the customers and staff of such establishments who don't have to deal with drunk, loud, homeless people. Like it or not those sleeping on the streets are those on the streets are usually those with far reaching mental and social problems who don't mix well with others.

Now we're down to the meat of it. It benefits the public as it means we don't have to deal with those smelly undesirables. Out of sight, out of mind.

urabell wrote: »

Like I said ( and really don't like saying Matthew 6:1-4) but it seems relevant here is that I do help the homeless but allowing them to sleep in the doorway of a business isn't helping anyone.

Do you really think a homeless person is giddy going around all day, really looking forward to the joyful experience of sleeping in a doorway? really?

They do so out of necessity.

When I used to walk up Grafton street every morning to work at about 7:30am, the Gardai would go along each shop and wake them up. They'd be gone before any business owners or customers had to deal with them.

cletus van damme · 09-06-2014 01:34PM

urabell wrote: »

I do my bit for the homeless but there's a line

Can you describe what do you do for the homeless?

The King of Moo · 09-06-2014 01:34PM

It's possible to not want to have homeless people sleeping in your doorway, and at the same time think that putting spikes in the ground is pretty nasty.
It's not like it's the only possible way to deal with the situation. How about these people living in these posh areas offer them a few pounds to move down the road a little bit.

lolosaur · 09-06-2014 01:37PM

I think this is a very good idea.

The faux outrage on people is rediculous.

If you are so dead set against them, why did you let such a problem arise in the first place.

these should be along the hapenny bridge and all around temple bar.
Talbot street should also just be covered in them from one end to another.

Imagine buying a flat to see some homeless lad has pi*sed and sh1t himself in the doorway. how awful. cider cans, rubbish, filth littering your pavement. being in fear of going out incase you were robbed by the beggar outside. always worrying about your place because there is a hobo living right outside. Even worse, he could get in when you are asleep and rape you.

My god, the more i think about this, the more i feel the homeless should be rounded up at night and brought to community halls to wait out the night.

jesus, what if you stood on a junkie needle and it went through your foot. you could et aids or anything.

I really dont see how anyone wouldnt want this. great if you live in a suburb where homeless peoplr woth thread, this wouldnt be an issue to you.

benefit, some lad is dry for the night. there are plenty of places to do that though.
Drawbacks however are 10 fold.

urabell · 09-06-2014 01:45PM

cletus van damme wrote: »

Can you describe what do you do for the homeless?

Matthew 6:1-4 still applies but since you asked, I have given a few hours of my week to the simon community since I began to drive.

o1s1n wrote: »

How patronizing.

No it's ok, “If you're not a liberal at twenty you have no heart, if you're not a conservative at forty you have no brain.”

o1s1n wrote: »

Now we're down to the meat of it. It benefits the public as it means we don't have to deal with those smelly undesirables. Out of sight, out of mind.

Smelly is your word. Mentally ill often violent. I worked in a coffee shop in town before. Often one of the young girls would open it up. I would prefer she didn't have to move off a sleeping homeless man to do so.

o1s1n wrote: »

Do you really think a homeless person is giddy going around all day, really looking forward to the joyful experience of sleeping in a doorway? really?

No, never suggested it either, excellent reading between the lines though.

o1s1n wrote: »

They do so out of necessity.

Will quote this again since your cherry-picking what posts you want to reply to.

"… if hunger were once allowed to be an excuse for stealing, it would open a door through which all kinds of lawlessness and disorder would pass... . If homelessness were once admitted as a defence to trespass, no one's house could be safe. Necessity would open a door which no man could shut. It would not only be those in extreme need who would enter. There would be others who would imagine that they were in need, or would invent a need, so as to gain entry."

per Lord Denning in Southwark LBC v Williams [1971]

o1s1n wrote: »

When I used to walk up Grafton street every morning to work at about 7:30am, the Gardai would go along each shop and wake them up. They'd be gone before any business owners or customers had to deal with them.

Grand so you're in support of the homeless sleeping in doorways as long as it's within the hours you've arbitrarily deemed ok to do so, you're part of the homeless shouldn't have lie ins brigade. I guess I am too.

Homeless "spikes" being put down at London establishments

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