Liverpool Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread Summer 2014 - Mod Warning post #6893

MonkeyTennis wrote: »

Was getting very worried about the handsome coefficient since Pepe's departure and Flannos been no help whatsoever.

You look at a team like Southamton and just have to admire buying policy

Flanno rates negative on the scale!

Knex. wrote: »

Nice bit of versatility, with Can, and he has a lot of decent traits which can be built upon. From what I can gather, (watched hardly any bundesliga this year), he has played 7 or 8 games at LB. Few at RM and LM. Then the bulk of his games come at CM and DM, with one or two games even seeing him as an AM.

This is predominantly taken from crappy clips and transfermarkt, though.

With him being so young, and clearly versatile with a good engine and decent pace, you can say that for 9-10m, this is pretty much a low risk transfer. Can't see Liverpool making much of a loss, even if this doesn't work out.

Happy enough with the deal, despite my general ignorance. Now, whos next?

I like Whoscored as a site when you're trying to learn about a player, what they're about, where they have played etc... They tend to be on the ball. I think they can give you a good rundown of players you don't know much about. They breakdown positions played, number of games etc...

http://www.whoscored.com/Players/111212

Played 10 as a left back, 12 as a centre-mid and 5 as a defensive mid apparently. He also played 1 game as a centre-back and one game as a wide left forward. So does seem to be a bit of a utility man.

His 'rating' last year was 7.17 - a lot of people will scoff at the accuracy of these ratings but they tend to usually be right enough, and while they are based on stats only, I haven't come across too many that you wouldn't generally agree with. Obviously doesn't tell us too much, but he seems to be a versatile young player, capable of doing a job in many roles with a pretty decent first season at Leverkusen

Looking through his stats, the only thing that stands out as 'different' from most CMs would be the amoint of dribbles per game (2.3), which would be a lot more than most CMs.

So he would seem to be a ball-carrying CM (Think Barkley, Diame, Dembele)

Morzadec wrote: »

I like Whoscored as a site when you're trying to learn about a player, what they're about, where they have played etc... They tend to be on the ball. I think they can give you a good rundown of players you don't know much about. They breakdown positions played, number of games etc...

http://www.whoscored.com/Players/111212

Played 10 as a left back, 12 as a centre-mid and 5 as a defensive mid apparently. He also played 1 game as a centre-back and one game as a wide left forward. So does seem to be a bit of a utility man.

His 'rating' last year was 7.17 - a lot of people will scoff at the accuracy of these ratings but they tend to usually be right enough, and while they are based on stats only, I haven't come across too many that you wouldn't generally agree with. Obviously doesn't tell us too much, but he seems to be a versatile young player, capable of doing a job in many roles with a pretty decent first season at Leverkusen

Looking through his stats, the only thing that stands out as 'different' from most CMs would be the amoint of dribbles per game (2.3), which would be a lot more than most CMs.

So he would seem to be a ball-carrying CM (Think Barkley, Diame, Dembele)

Nice. I do wonder how much the dribbles per game would be tempered from playing LB, where you generally would have more space to progress with the ball.

Still, you have to have the ability to do so, and it would be great to have a progressive moving, strong running, midfielder in the team.

Knex. wrote: »

Nice bit of versatility, with Can, and he has a lot of decent traits which can be built upon. From what I can gather, (watched hardly any bundesliga this year), he has played 7 or 8 games at LB. Few at RM and LM. Then the bulk of his games come at CM and DM, with one or two games even seeing him as an AM.

This is predominantly taken from crappy clips and transfermarkt, though.

With him being so young, and clearly versatile with a good engine and decent pace, you can say that for 9-10m, this is pretty much a low risk transfer. Can't see Liverpool making much of a loss, even if this doesn't work out.

Happy enough with the deal, despite my general ignorance. Now, whos next?

I shall call him German hendo based on your info .

super_furry wrote: »

Still think we'll be moving a few out. Can see Lucas and Agger moved on with Sahko and Skrtel our first choice centre backs, so we may well need a few more faces there.

I'd say Lucas will be kept. I wouldn't expect him to start in the league but any cup game or league game where Gerrard is out, he will probably play. Useful player to keep. And I doubt hes on massive wages. Wouldn't make much sense to sell him.

Agger I agree with. I'd say he'll be sold.

Knex. wrote: »

Nice. I do wonder how much the dribbles per game would be tempered from playing LB, where you generally would have more space to progress with the ball.

Still, you have to have the ability to do so, and it would be great to have a progressive moving, strong running, midfielder in the team.

Well even as a left back that's a lot of dribbles per game, taking last seasons Premier League as a base sample.

Coleman was the highest dribbling Right-back with 1.8, Shaw at left-back just behind

All the top dribblers are generally wingers (Hazard topping the charts convincingly ahead of Suarez and Sterling). There are some centre mids who enter the top 10 dribblers and break 2 dribbles per game with comparable stats to Can (Sissoko, Dembele, Barkely, Diame), but either way you look at it this is a guy who likes to bring the ball forward a lot.

What's interesting is that you would expect a ball-carrying centre-mid who likes to drive forward a lot to incur some possesion losses as a result of this.

Can actually fairs really well in relation to this compared to the above players:

Dispossed per game:

Can: 1.3
Barkely: 1.7
Dembele: 1.7
Sissoko: 2.1
Diame: 1.9

Now you could make the argument about Bundesliga quality vs Premier League quality, but that's actually quite an impressive stat - he matches or exceeds the leagues highest ball-carrying midfielders in terms of successful dribbles, but does not lose the ball as much.

Those who thought DIame would have been just the player we needed a few windows ago could perhaps be very happy with Can.

He would appear to offer us something in centre-mid that we do not have - the ability to carry and drive forward with ball. Maybe this is something that will benefit us in certain types of games, and is a different type of option Rodgers wants.

Succesful dribbles per game:

Can: 2.5 (league games only)
Allen: 0.8
Henderson: 0.5
Gerrard: 0.4
Lucas: 0.2

So looking at this stat he does seem to be a different option to our current centre mids

Cheers for that, Morzadec. Very interesting/insightful.

rarnes1 wrote: »

Yeah I certainly wouldn't sell Lucas.

Aspas
Johnson
Jones
One of Skrtel/Agger

would be on my list to go

Skrtel and Agger I'd keep both . The rest can be sold or put to use making tea and cleaning boots .

BenThere wrote: »

Coates is in the Uruguay squad. He must therefore be fit and match ready. If he has a good tournament and comes back to LFC will we keep him as a fourth CB?

Starters = Skrtel + Sakho

Backup = Agger and Coates

If Lovern or AN Other CB comes in one of Coates/Agger will have to go?

Ben

If he has a good WC hopefully someone will take him off our hands at a decent price

We have capable experience in Toure as backup, as well as talented youngsters like Wisdom and aioli on the books.

Maybe Coates deserves a second (3rd?) chance, but I would say the jury's already back with the verdict on him

Edit: I think our gung-ho system requires a cb with good mobility and recovery pace, something Coates definitely doesn't have. Looks more suited to a backs to the wall type defending role

Know nothing about Can other than bits or bobs I've seen about him online.

However, it's a bit disappointing that we don't seem to be adding any top quality players at this moment in time. I would have been of the impression that everyone (including Rodgers) was of the opinion that top class players were required to go straight into the first team.

If the likes of Can & Lambert and players of that ilk are the pinnacle of our dealings this summer, it will be a colossal disappointment.

Mr Alan wrote: »

Know nothing about Can other than bits or bobs I've seen about him online.

However, it's a bit disappointing that we don't seem to be adding any top quality players at this moment in time. I would have been of the impression that everyone (including Rodgers) was of the opinion that top class players were required to go straight into the first team.

If the likes of Can & Lambert and players of that ilk are the pinnacle of our dealings this summer, it will be a colossal disappointment.

Early days yet, I think a lot of our problems were down to the lack of quality on the bench which we look to be addressing, also it is important that we don't buy players who force out some of our younger players eg Coutinho but are happy to rotate with them. We have another 4 players to buy to get Brendans 6 players in, If we get Moreno, Lallana and Lovern they will certainly be in the first team