When will the Gardai do their job and stop unlicensed drivers.

Shiraz 4.99 · 05-06-2014 11:10AM

Pugsly wrote: »

Not so sure about the L plate business. I recall them cracking down on that before and there was a public backlash about the fact they were making it impossible for some people to go to work given they were just learners and could have a full licence driver with them all the time.

I work with 3 current learners & realistically the Motorway is their only route to work.
Simple answer was to take down their L plates, it's the equivalent of having a big flashing neon sign on your car saying pull me.

Gannicus · 05-06-2014 12:24PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Rural Ireland.

Learner`s driving on their own.

Kids driving vehicles,

All the norm in my parts.

Yesterday I witnessed a local lad of 11 driving his dads van, its common to see lads from the local secondary school aged around 13-15 driving vehicles.

I know many learner drivers who havent passed the driving test and have no plan to pass the test and yet continue to drive on their own.

The local Garda knows all about this but when he himself is a constant drink driver and plays GAA with all the locals.

Sometimes I feel like I live in the WILD WILD West!

When will the Gardai stop this madness!

Have you reported this in detail to the Garda Ombudsman or Gardai in Dublin castle (preferably both) giving dates times and vehicle regs (send pictures or vids too is possible). Someone is going to get killed. Thats pure madness if any of this is true.

Gannicus · 05-06-2014 12:32PM

Shiraz 4.99 wrote: »

I work with 3 current learners & realistically the Motorway is their only route to work.
Simple answer was to take down their L plates, it's the equivalent of having a big flashing neon sign on your car saying pull me.

I had one of those signs on my car before. I was told to take it down by the gardai

Alf. A. Male · 05-06-2014 12:34PM

Big Steve wrote: »

I had one of those signs on my car before. I was told to take it down by the gardai

Did they help you to remove it? Or did they make you pull it off yourself?

seamus · 05-06-2014 12:53PM

Shiraz 4.99 wrote: »

I work with 3 current learners & realistically the Motorway is their only route to work.

Realistically nothing, they have chosen to use the motorway to get to work because it is convenient.
If they started the job before they started driving, then at some point they got to work without driving.
If they started driving before they got the job, then they took the job knowing full well that they would use the motorway to get there.

It's one thing which always irritates me about driving is the sense of entitlement, this idea that you have to break the law in some circumstances because you have no choice. It's almost always an excuse to justify breaking the law for one's own convenience and not a statement of truth.

Really we're edging close to the limit of what can be accomplished with our current set up on the road. As a society we want a traffic corps who enforce the law for everyone else by pulling over L-drivers and fining people for no tax, but who go easy on me when they pull me over for having tax a week out. We need to decide if we want a rigid system of enforcement like the UK where you have relatively uncompromising traffic cops backed up by a huge network of cameras, or if we want a more flexible but occasionally infuriating system where poor drivers get away with it 9 times out of ten and only lipservice is paid to the less serious laws like L plates, amber lights and double-yellow lines.

Awkward Badger · 05-06-2014 01:00PM

seamus wrote: »

Realistically nothing, they have chosen to use the motorway to get to work because it is convenient.
If they started the job before they started driving, then at some point they got to work without driving.
If they started driving before they got the job, then they took the job knowing full well that they would use the motorway to get there.

It's one thing which always irritates me about driving is the sense of entitlement, this idea that you have to break the law in some circumstances because you have no choice. It's almost always an excuse to justify breaking the law for one's own convenience and not a statement of truth.

Except life isn't that simple and its not all about convenience and entitlement. Some times its about necessity.

Many people myself included lived in towns and cities where there was employment close by and didn't need a car. A lot of peoples circumstances have changed over the last few years and it may not have been really feasible for some to sit around waiting to get a full driving licence and incurring the cost that goes with that before seeking or accepting employment and a steady income that required a car to get to.

intellectual dosser · 05-06-2014 01:05PM

Pugsly wrote: »

Except life isn't that simple and its not all about convenience and entitlement. Some times its about necessity.

Many people myself included lived in towns and cities where there was employment close by and didn't need a car. A lot of peoples circumstances have changed over the last few years and it may not have been really feasible for some to sit around waiting to get a full driving licence and incurring the cost that goes with that before seeking or accepting employment and a steady income that required a car to get to.

The Law is the Law.

Our country may not have a great record of implementing but nothing justifies breaking it.

Yellowblackbird · 05-06-2014 01:13PM

intellectual dosser wrote: »

The Law is the Law.....nothing justifies breaking it.

What if you were late for dinner? Or what if somebody died if you didn't break the law? What if you lived in the third reich and the law said you should do no business with jews?

Awkward Badger · 05-06-2014 01:20PM

intellectual dosser wrote: »

The Law is the Law.

Our country may not have a great record of implementing but nothing justifies breaking it.

That doesn't mean that anyone who does so is doing so out of a sense of entitlement though. Sometimes people are forced by circumstance to take the risk.

intellectual dosser · 05-06-2014 01:22PM

Pugsly wrote: »

That doesn't mean that anyone who does so is doing so out of a sense of entitlement though. Sometimes people are forced by circumstance to take the risk.

Well I still think they shouldnt be putting themselves in a position where they dont have a viable transport solution available to them, but even so, do you agree that these people should still be prosecuted if/when caught?

Awkward Badger · 05-06-2014 01:27PM

intellectual dosser wrote: »

Well I still think they shouldnt be putting themselves in a position where they dont have a viable transport solution available to them, but even so, do you agree that these people should still be prosecuted if/when caught?

That's why I brought it up. I said in my other post I wast sure about it. They did crack down on it a while ago but there was some public backlash over it as a lot of stories emegred about people who had just learned to drive to find work and them not being forced to quit and sign on if they couldn't drive.

I think it should probably be down to the discretion of the Gardai dealing with it. I'm not sure a blanket policy iron fist no quarter approach can work with these types of things. If its a person on their way to work I think they could be let slide with a warning or whatever.

Dian Cecht · 05-06-2014 01:30PM

Pugsly wrote: »

That doesn't mean that anyone who does so is doing so out of a sense of entitlement though. Sometimes people are forced by circumstance to take the risk.

Fair enough. But if they decide to "take the risk" and get caught they should accept the consequences too. This country is a joke. People get off with "he/she had a tough childhood blah, blah" and have a crap load of previous convictions !

TheBrinch · 05-06-2014 01:30PM

I think most learner drivers dont give a crap because the driving test is a money making scheme and they have a certain percentage of people they have to pass and have to fail...throwing away 85 quid every few months when they could fail you for no reason is ridiculous.

Ive been driving on a learner permit for the past 5 years and I have no intention of doing a driving test anytime soon. Its a joke really.

intellectual dosser · 05-06-2014 01:31PM

Pugsly wrote: »

That's why I brought it up. I said in my other post I wast sure about it. They did crack down on it a while ago but there was some public backlash over it as a lot of stories emegred about people who had just learned to drive to find work and them not being forced to quit and sign on if they couldn't drive.

I think it should probably be down to the discretion of the Gardai dealing with it. I'm not sure a blanket policy iron fist no quarter approach can work with these types of things. If its a person on their way to work I think they could be let slide with a warning or whatever.

I was a goody two shoes when I was on my learner permit. I never drove without an accompanied driver etc, and to this day I've never had an accident or picked up a penalty point (whoopdeedoo good for me!?!).

My point is that if people are going to start taking risks while on their learner permit I'd be concerned about how that complacency could deteriorate further as their driving continues.

That's why I'd be more in favour of the iron fist mentality.

Awkward Badger · 05-06-2014 01:35PM

Dian Cecht wrote: »

Fair enough. But if they decide to "take the risk" and get caught they should accept the consequences too. This country is a joke. People get off with "he/she had a tough childhood blah, blah" and have a crap load of previous convictions !

Well criminal convictions are a separate matter. I'd image with motor offences most of them are dealt with by issues fines or penalty points. If someone got fined for driving as a learner without a full licences driver with them I wouldn't complain about it, as I said its a risk. But I'd probably prefer they were let off with a warning tbh if they were driving to get to and from work.

Dian Cecht · 05-06-2014 01:36PM

It is a criminal offence, isn't it?

*No "L" plate is a criminal offence but unaccompanied isn't apparently

Shiraz 4.99 · 05-06-2014 02:09PM

Remember, this is Ireland, it's not against the law unless you are caught, you're a cute whore up to that point.
Carry on.

slimjimmc · 05-06-2014 02:16PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Whats the point?

The Local Garda is a drink driver and knows about all that is going on, the main Garda Station in Roscommon dont like to venture out to the villages and leave the policing to the local Garda, and I doubt they would step on the toes of the local Garda. And I wouldnt trust them not to mention my name and Im the one who would get the hassle!

I just wish a Traffic corp vehicle sat in our village for a day, the revenue it could make, Ireland would be debt free!

There won't be a car there unless someone starts complaining.
Report it to TrafficWatch. The complaint will be recorded and sent to yer man's Superintendent. Or don't clog up TW phone lines and just go directly to the Super.
http://www.garda.ie/Controller.aspx?Page=111

Put it this way, if you're committed to doing something about the problem (rather that hoping someone else will) there are many ways of making complaints and getting action.

EddieConlon · 05-06-2014 02:26PM

Only traffic Guards would do you for driving unaccompanied on a learner permit,and even then if you act polite,aren't known to them and apologise a thousand times they'll let you away with it.

05-06-2014 02:49PM

I always laugh when I see people complaining about learners driving alone when you can be sure they didnt it themselves.

I dint know a single person who didn't drive alone and everyone I know drives. I drove for 6 months myself on a provisional, in fact my parents encouraged it as they always maintain its the best way to prepare for the test is to get out there on your own. Of course myself and my two sisters passed the text first time with virtually no faults thanks to the experience we had build up.

Local guards have better things be doing than harassing locals with this minor sort of stuff.

Super-Rush · 05-06-2014 02:49PM

I'd say the op is lying through their hole.

Gannicus · 05-06-2014 04:25PM

Alf. A. Male wrote: »

Did they help you to remove it? Or did they make you pull it off yourself?

They made me do it myself while they watched. ha ha

Little CuChulainn · 05-06-2014 04:44PM

1890 205 805

Garda Traffic Watch number. Ring them and make your allegation. They will take your name and phone number. They will assign a PULSE number to the complaint and send it out to the local station to investigate. You should be contacted a couple of weeks later by the Garda who has been assigned to investigate. You can give him a statement and he will follow it up. Eventually you can go to court and tell the judge what you saw. If at any time you are not satisfied with the speed of the investigation you can complain to the Gardas superiors or even GSOC.

It's really very simple.

cadaliac · 05-06-2014 04:46PM

TheBrinch wrote: »

I think most learner drivers dont give a crap because the driving test is a money making scheme and they have a certain percentage of people they have to pass and have to fail...throwing away 85 quid every few months when they could fail you for no reason is ridiculous.

Ive been driving on a learner permit for the past 5 years and I have no intention of doing a driving test anytime soon. Its a joke really.

You are the joke. Get a lesson and go for the test.
You must find it hard to pay tax too, that's a joke too isn't it?:rolleyes:

As for the OP - its all a bit OTT really. Until you can change the attitude of people like TheBrinch, common laws like L plates and driving unaccompanied will never be enforced by the Guards.
I was driving a 4x4 (not on public roads) at the age of 9, well, learning from that age.

H3llR4iser · 05-06-2014 06:48PM

The change has to be in mentality - no form of control can be 100% effective, there will always be pretty big gaps through which people manage to slip. Take the systems in the UK, France and Italy: you have big scary average speed detection systems, red-light breaking sensors and plate-recognizing squad cars...yet, an unlicensed driver would easily manage to drive along a motorway with no hassle whatsoever, as long as he/she keps it at or below the limit and didn't commit clear violations.

In Ireland, there still is a somewhat rural attitude towards driving; It's something you learn "when you need it" and the whole process is seen as a "ripoff", because "sure, how hard is it to drive a car? you need no course, I drove tractors when I was 7!".

It is frankly shocking to see how many people aged 25 and even 30 either can't drive at all, or only hold a provisional / learner's permit (depending on age) in a country that, bar Dublin city centre, is completely dependent on private cars.
The most absurd of the misconceptions is probably the one that you "need a car" before starting to learn how to drive - it is the REVERSE of how it works in any other advanced country; In many places, you can't even buy a car with no license. There are motoring schools and instructors with their own car. Learn first, buy later.

Go to the UK, Continental Europe, USA, Canada...you choose, and you'll find that the vast majority of 19 years olds already have a fully fledged license, or are at least in the process of preparing their exam. That's because driving is seen as a basic life skill, just like swimming or cycling and, quite rightly, as something whose lack of can hamper a person in the foreseeable future - as in the classic scenario, "need a job - have no license - all jobs are 30 km from home with no bus available".

When will the Gardai do their job and stop unlicensed drivers.

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