Why is Irish still compulsory?

Azwaldo55 · 04-06-2014 09:18PM #1

Apart from some sheep farmers in Donegal and Galway and Kerry nobody speaks the language on a daily basis.
Nobody!
Yet precious hours every week that could be better spent training our children for the challenges of the modern economy are wasted on forcing them to try and understand a tongue they find impenetrable and will never have any need to speak.
The most spoken language in this country is English. End of.
The ideology behind maintaining the myth that Irish should be compulsory is hardline republicanism which claims that one day all Irish people will speak Irish.
Whether they want to or not! Whether the language is of any use or not!
The usual refrain of the Irish language fanatics is that it would be a shame to see it go and why should Irish speakers be denied the right to converse in their naked tongue.
A Dubliner who only goes to Galway on the odd holiday or maybe a stag night is supposed to be able to speak this tongue which they would otherwise never speak to please a few thousand people who probably speak English when they come to Dublin.
Most of the craw thumping lunatics who believe the Irish language will one day overcome the foreign tongue surprise surprise cannot speak the language themselves.
Yet they want to force the rest of the non-Irish speaking population to speak this dead language to keep a romantic notion alive and accuse anyone who doesn't want to speak it of being a West Brit!
Having grown up having to learn off atrociously bad poetry by Gabriel Rosenstock I thoroughly despise it and I burned my Irish books the day I left school.
I don't want to stop people from learning the language but it should not be compulsory.
If you want to put yourself willingly through that torture that's fine.
I'm delighted for you.
That should not be my business.
Inflicting this compulsory language has created a hatred and hostility to the language which has ensured its demise as generations of school children refuse to learn it.
The Irish language does not define me as Irish and I would lose nothing if it is gone. It does not define me and I will not miss it if it dies.
How many jobs to you actually need jobs for?
Apart from being Irish language teachers?
Should people be forced to speak Irish to conduct all our business and daily life through the medium or face a firing squad?
So why oh why should Irish be foisted on us?
It is utterly ridiculous to keep it compulsory in our schools.

retalivity · 04-06-2014 09:19PM

Bi i do thost...

Temptamperu · 04-06-2014 09:26PM

Im starting to use Irish threads as a timing measurement its better than any seiko.

Duckworth_Luas · 04-06-2014 09:38PM

Azwaldo55 wrote: »

The usual refrain of the Irish language fanatics is that it would be a shame to see it go and why should Irish speakers be denied the right to converse in their naked tongue.

This thread must be what? The Naked Tongue 33⅓?

Arthur Beesley · 04-06-2014 09:40PM

Temptamperu wrote: »

Im starting to use Irish threads as a timing measurement its better than any seiko.

But not as good as a Tag Heuer.

lukesmom · 04-06-2014 09:40PM

Cén fáth????

shruikan2553 · 04-06-2014 09:41PM

Im all for making it not compulsory but our more Irish friends will be here soon to tell us about how a country with no language has no soul (not sure how we communicate without having a language) and how its a shame we dont speak our native language (my native language is english as it was my first) then theres how its technically the first language in the constitution but even when it was put in people found it strange because most people used English.

Im sure I missed something but Im sure our favourite Irish speaker will be here soon.

dodderangler · 04-06-2014 09:43PM

Basically you want irish language gone?
Have some fcukin respect. It's our native tongue and it'd be an awful shame to lose it and see it gone.

The King of Moo · 04-06-2014 09:46PM

I'm annoyed because I was bad at maths too. I agree OP, maths shouldn't be compulsory!

SpannerMonkey · 04-06-2014 09:47PM

i hated having to learn it in school. now at 30 years of age id absolutely love to be able to speak it . having said that i doubt il ever bother to learn more than i can remember from my school days

just laziness on my part .
i do think it should be compulsory up to junior cert but optional for leaving cycle

Ted_YNWA · 04-06-2014 09:48PM

Níl aon scamaill sa spéir.

Is maith liom cailin bainne.

Caiseoipe19 · 04-06-2014 09:50PM

I never liked Geography and have never used it since my school days. Think of all that valuable **** time I've missed out on as a teenager, because I was forced to take them classes. Why is Geography still compulsory in most schools??

Same with History, Science, English (I could already speak and write by secondary school)...

AnonoBoy · 04-06-2014 09:52PM

Azwaldo55 wrote: »

Apart from some sheep farmers in Donegal and Galway and Kerry nobody speaks the language on a daily basis.
Nobody!

Incorrect. Lots of people in other parts of the country do.

Just no people you know.

Captain Chaos · 04-06-2014 09:53PM

Caiseoipe19 wrote: »

I never liked Geography and have never used it since my school days. Think of all that valuable **** time I've missed out on as a teenager, because I was forced to take them classes. Why is Geography still compulsory in most schools??

Same with History, Science, English (I would already speak and write by secondary school)...

Sure why is English, we use it every day. Nothing more to learn about it.:pac:

dissed doc · 04-06-2014 09:53PM

Azwaldo55 wrote: »

Yet precious hours every week that could be better spent training our children for the challenges of the modern economy

One of the biggest challenges of a modern economy is to function properly within a culture. A country and culture are more than simply an economy. From your perspective it is the most important, but English as a language has very little relevance to the culture, community and society which is very much Irish and has evolved even with English (since 1 or generations) become the most common language.

You buy in your own language but you sell in others. It would be completely stupid to become full monoglots like many in the UK. Learning a second language makes learning other languages easier at a later date and later age. Just because you can't speak another language and you want to restrict your entire cultural and business exposure to monoglot English speakers, doesn't mean it's everyone's cup of tea

It's possible for you to just speak English so fire ahead. Someone else who speaks Irish might find they later also find it easier to learn Chinese and encourage some massive industry to set up in Ireland, bringing in more money than an English speaking Starbucks barista ever would.

Talib Fiasco · 04-06-2014 09:55PM

Jesus if you were going to write a paper on the topic you should have at least done it in Irish so it'll sound good....I'll start if off for you:

A Liam a chara,

Conas atá chúrsaí leatsa?

**Lean ar aghaidh OP**

Fighting Irish · 04-06-2014 09:58PM

dodderangler wrote: »

Basically you want irish language gone?
Have some fcukin respect. It's our native tongue and it'd be an awful shame to lose it and see it gone.

It'd still be there if you want it, compulsory is being ridiculous considering how important the leaving cert can be for some people.

I've absolutely no interest in Irish, i would have got better marks in leaving if i didn't do Irish

131spanner · 04-06-2014 09:59PM

It's a huge part of our history and identity. I think it still has a place in our future, minor as it may be. Make it optional and chances are a high percent of students will opt out earlier, making it even more of an uphill struggle to keep it somewhat alive.

In the words of Joni Mitchell, "you don't know what you got til it's gone".

Fighting Irish · 04-06-2014 09:59PM

The King of Moo wrote: »

I'm annoyed because I was bad at maths too. I agree OP, maths shouldn't be compulsory!

lol

Azwaldo55 · 04-06-2014 10:00PM

AnonoBoy wrote: »

Incorrect. Lots of people in other parts of the country do.

Just no people you know.

I have never heard the language spoken even once in everyday conversation anywhere in Ireland outside of the Irish speaking areas of the country. Not even once.
The Irish language is not the native tongue of the overwhelming majority of the Irish population and they would never have any reason to ever speak it. Try speaking it to people in Tesco or in a club or bar or anywhere else you can mention and people will be unable to converse with you.
You don't speak it on a daily basis and I bet your grasp of it is pretty poor at best.
There is no chance the language will ever become the predominant language in this country.
But I don't have to tell you this. You know it already.
The reason the language is compulsory in schools is because of the hardline republican fanatics who deny this obvious reality.
The emperor has no clothes.

Azwaldo55 · 04-06-2014 10:05PM

131spanner wrote: »

It's a huge part of our history and identity. I think it still has a place in our future, minor as it may be. Make it optional and chances are a high percent of students will opt out earlier, making it even more of an uphill struggle to keep it somewhat alive.

In the words of Joni Mitchell, "you don't know what you got til it's gone".

We waste millions teaching a language to kids from the age of 4 or 5 right up until they are 17 or 18 and about 99% of them come out of school unable to speak or understand it.

"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."

Albert Einstein (1879-1955)

The language clearly is not part of the cultural identity of the overwhelming majority of Irish people in 2014 and it is never going to be.

Keeping it compulsory is a delusion. You know full well only tiny pockets of people in this country speak it and the rest are just making up the marks for the Leaving Cert and then never touch the language ever again.

They use English everyday conversation.

Bannasidhe · 04-06-2014 10:06PM

Azwaldo55 wrote: »

I have never heard the language spoken even once in everyday conversation anywhere in Ireland outside of the Irish speaking areas of the country. Not even once.
The Irish language is not the native tongue of the overwhelming majority of the Irish population and they would never have any reason to ever speak it. Try speaking it to people in Tesco or in a club or bar or anywhere else you can mention and people will be unable to converse with you.
You don't speak it on a daily basis and I bet your grasp of it is pretty poor at best.
There is no chance the language will ever become the predominant language in this country.
But I don't have to tell you this. You know it already.
The reason the language is compulsory in schools is because of the hardline republican fanatics who deny this obvious reality.
The emperor has no clothes.

Technically it is the native tongue of most people - it's just not their first language.

I'm not convinced English is yours given your interesting syntax and apparent confusion as to definitions.

Tell me, are you familiar with the function of the comma?

131spanner · 04-06-2014 10:07PM

Azwaldo55 wrote: »

We waste millions teaching a language to kids from the age of 4 or 5 right up until they are 17 or 18 and about 99% of them come out of school unable to speak or understand it.

Which is the bigger loss: the supposed "millions" you consider to be "wasted" on teaching the language, or the hypothetical loss of the language itself?

carpejugulum · 04-06-2014 10:10PM

Azwaldo55 wrote: »

It is utterly ridiculous to keep it compulsory in our schools.

Of course. But there are a lot of busybodies who use tradition as an excuse and who profit - not just financially - from compulsory Irish.

Sunnyisland · 04-06-2014 10:11PM

Azwaldo55 wrote: »

The reason the language is compulsory in schools is because of the hardline republican fanatics who deny this obvious reality.(QUOTE]

Hard line republicans lol,

Irish is a Celtic language. This group includes Welsh, Breton and Cornish - known collectively to scholars as P Celtic - and Irish. The Gaelic of Scotland and Manx are known as Q Celtic. Although far less widespread than the other major language groups of Europe, Celtic languages in 300 BC stretched from Ireland to Asia Minor, from Poland to Spain and Northern Italy.

We feel little need to use it on our daily lives, yet want our children to learn it. When these attitudes are probed more deeply, it seems that our language has become for us one of the few badges which we have left of a distinctive identity as a People. Even those who know little Irish and are themselves cut off from the literary and other traditions of the language, feel in some way that it is an enriching influence in our lives - in its own way a key to our self-awareness and self-understanding.

Azwaldo55 · 04-06-2014 10:14PM

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Technically it is the native tongue of most people - it's just not their first language.

If someone does not speak or comprehend Irish then quite clearly it is not their language. Irish is completely alien to most Irish people. They are forced to learn a language they will never ever use.
It is delusional to say otherwise.

WesternZulu · 04-06-2014 10:15PM

I love the way that people who are all in favour of ditching the language say that it could be time spent learning something else...as if someone who is absolutely sh*t at maths will automatically become brilliant at the subject just because they don't have to learn Irish.

There seems to be a section of people who are almost ashamed to be associated with anything remotely culturally Irish.
I really hate that kind of inferiority complex!!

Languages like Irish, Catalan, Basque, and others should be encouraged not marginalized.
Lord knows the world is globabized enough without losing interesting and unique aspects which are indigenous to certain regions and countries.

Azwaldo55 · 04-06-2014 10:16PM

realies wrote: »

We feel little need to use it on our daily lives, yet want our children to learn it. When these attitudes are probed more deeply, it seems that our language has become for us one of the few badges which we have left of a distinctive identity as a People. Even those who know little Irish and are themselves cut off from the literary and other traditions of the language, feel in some way that it is an enriching influence in our lives - in its own way a key to our self-awareness and self-understanding.

So it really is just a load of Celtic mystical baloney and has no contact with reality?

ComputerKing · 04-06-2014 10:17PM

Irish should definitely stay compulsory its our native tongue for God sake its part of our heritage you don't just let it fall away and be forgotten about. And I don't think ye sort of people realise that many people still use Irish on a daily basis even if your not from a Gaeltacht area I know because I'm one of these people.

DanWall · 04-06-2014 10:18PM

It is tough enough having to get through exams without the added burden of having to learn Irish as an extra subject.
A lot of students will obtain jobs with multinational companies, how many of these need Irish? they need the language of their parent companies country eg German

ancapailldorcha · 04-06-2014 10:19PM

Azwaldo55 wrote: »

If someone does not speak or comprehend Irish then quite clearly it is not their language. Irish is completely alien to most Irish people. They are forced to learn a language they will never ever use.
It is delusional to say otherwise.

To be fair, one reason a lot of people will never use it is that it is taught so badly in schools by incompetent morons.
In continental Europe, people learn other languages along with their native one. I knew a chap from north Africa who learned 5 languages growing up and he spoke them all fluently. God forbid we overhaul the system so that people might actually be able to speak it or replace it with something useful like Spanish or Mandarin.

Why is Irish still compulsory?

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