796 children buried in Septic Tank in Galway - ### Mod Warning in 1st Post

RobertKK · 04-06-2014 06:53PM

bumper234 wrote: »

Do you think these women went to these places voluntarily?

From what I heard on the radio, their families made them go as they were seen as an embarrassment in society.

denhaagenite · 04-06-2014 06:54PM

Gaining traction, I've had a Twitter account for a few years buut never used it. I have tweeted with hashtags #300babies #tuambabies and http://www.avaaz.org/en/petition/Frances_Fitzgerald_Irish_Minister_for_Justice_and_Equality_A_full_Gardai_investigation_into_the_mass_grave_in_Tuam_Co_Ga/?copy
Sean Moncrieff
Stephen Fry
Save the Children
Michael D
Colm O Gorman
NY Times
The Pope
Bill Clinton
Barack Obama

I've been a terror- twit

RobertKK · 04-06-2014 06:54PM

Reformed Character wrote: »

Father had and have no rights re their children being adopted, the fathers could not legally have prevented the adoptions even if they wanted to.
Is it not time you stopped blaming the victims and saved your hurtful and wholly un- empathetic comments for those who deserve them, ie the who ran these establishments and carried out these atrocious and inhuman acts.

No need to make stuff up, I have not blamed the victims.

shruikan2553 · 04-06-2014 06:55PM

RobertKK wrote: »

The church is it's people, not just the clergy

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Papal_infallibility

The people are members but have no say.

RobertKK wrote: »

From what I heard on the radio, their families made them go as they were seen as an embarrassment in society.

Where would they get that idea? Was it then that the women decided to give up their children for adoption?

humanji · 04-06-2014 06:57PM

People, stick to the topic. We're not going back to the "Is religion good or bad" debate.

SpaceTime · 04-06-2014 06:57PM

RobertKK wrote: »

An immaculate conception? There was a father somewhere.

Of course the father was somewhere. It was a society where acknowledging your 'illegitimate' (hate that term) kids would have meant being run out of town though. So, no doubt it was hushed up or they were spirited away to England or America never to return in a lot of cases too.

In other cases, if you 'got someone in trouble' and you were younger you might have ended up in a hell-hole industrial school for your 'sins' to be beaten to pulp for being sexually promiscuous in a land without condoms. It would have meant having your life utterly destroyed though in any case either as an adult or a teenager.

Where the father was perhaps a married man having an affair or something, that would probably never never been acknowledged due to the social stigma. These days it might cause a huge argument and all sorts of problems but it wouldn't be the absolute end of the world either.

If it was a priest, well you'd have massive problems ...

Worst of all was where someone had been raped and somehow she was treated as the problem rather than the victim of an awful attack.
We *still* force rape victims to carry their babies to term in Ireland which I personally think is beyond twisted. At least we have gotten to the stage where emergency contraception is finally available but it most certainly was not those days and wouldn't even have been understood as sex education was non-existent and such things wouldn't even have been public knowledge due to censorship and oppressive attitudes.

The escape valve of cheap transport to Britain allows us to maintain a lot of social hypocrisy on these issues.

These 'places' were just a particularly brutal way of denying the reality that people have sex and get pregnant and it's not always in the context of a marriage.

Reformed Character · 04-06-2014 07:00PM

RobertKK wrote: »

From what I heard on the radio, their families made them go as they were seen as an embarrassment in society.

Who made it shameful? The doctrine of the RCC, a church built on the death of a supposed phrophet who was himself illegitimate , being born out of wedlock!
The church created the toxic atmosphere around unmarried mums and then you blame the families for listening to the message being propagated by that self same church!
Instead of trying to blame the victims in an effort to protect the church, why don't you deal with the issue at hand, 800 dead children, many of whom were starved by those well paid (oh yes there was no charity about this, it was a solely commercial enterprise) to provide for them, and then discarded in a septic tank because the CHURCH considered them to illegitimate and thus not even deserving of a decent burial.

bumper234 · 04-06-2014 07:03PM

RobertKK wrote: »

The church is it's people, not just the clergy.

Does one gain wealth by being the biggest non governmental provider of education and healthcare in the world. If they do then James Reilly and Ruari Quinn would like to know how to run the health and education system.
The UN said the church 'provides support to millions of people living with HIV around the world', and a quarter of all HIV victims in the world receive medical treatment and care provided by the church.
The UN works with the church to give antiretoviral to pregnant mothers so the children are born HIV free.
But this costs no money....apparently.
What is good is good as I said, what is bad is bad.

Please stop using the word cult, it does more to help people than is given credit for, but letting bad making one blind to good, leaves one in a place that is not rational.
See the bad, but see the good too, then one has a clearer picture. One would think they take in money and do nothing going by your post.

It also tells people in Africa that they will go to hell if they use condoms, condoms are one of the best resources to stop the spread of AIDS so what? Also whether you like it or not it is a cult......a very successful cult but a cult non the less.

bumper234 · 04-06-2014 07:05PM

RobertKK wrote: »

From what I heard on the radio, their families made them go as they were seen as an embarrassment in society.

So that's a no then.

Temptamperu · 04-06-2014 07:07PM

bumper234 wrote: »

It also tells people in Africa that they will go to hell if they use condoms, condoms are one of the best resources to stop the spread of AIDS so what? Also whether you like it or not it is a cult......a very successful cult but a cult non the less.

It was branded a cult for its first thousand years, the emperor Constantine "legitimised" it by being the first christian emperor, he cherry picked the old testament and its been non-stop sectarian violence ever since.

oppenheimer1 · 04-06-2014 07:09PM

mariaalice wrote: »

its very hard to get your head around what Ireland was like in the past.

Did family's ever look after anyone in the past or is there a myth of family care.

For example huge mental hospitals in which thousand's were dumped in to.

County homes where old people were put in to a lot of this was to do with a greed for land and inheritance.

Church run mother and child homes, orphanages and the like. They were every where.

Madglan laundries.

Church run schools where they took in teenage boys who became christen brothers all this with the consent of the parents.

Hostels for the working poor in cities run by church organisation

Boarding schools were everywhere and it was cheap to send you child to them, and thousand's of children went to them again church run.

It comes across as society that was passive, pious, that expected someone else to take of their children, parents, and those with a learning disabilities or mental illness.. why were the families not taking care of their own. Why was there an expectation of the church or state to take care of them?.

It was after the famine that the church as we know it was organised in Ireland, what happened before the famine to unmarried mothers? how come after the famine we ended up with a society that expected someone else to take care of our problems?

Mentally ill people are still dumped in state institutions. I now someone who works in a mental hospital and there are plenty who have never had a visitor.

My name is URL · 04-06-2014 07:10PM

Reformed Character wrote: »

Who made it shameful? The doctrine of the RCC

Instead of trying to blame the victims in an effort to protect the church

I think it's possible to place some blame on other people while not trying to protect the church. Plenty of other countries and societies managed to resist such influences from the church. Ireland and its people seemed to embrace it.

Why shouldn't families be blamed for carting their kids off to those places without ever giving it a second thought? That's not 'victim blaming' in any sense of the term.

You can blame the church for being the ones responsible for what happened inside these institutions but the fact that people, gardai, courts and politicians allowed it all to happen was more of a societal problem, which to some extent still exists today.

It's also worth bearing in mind that such homes run by other religious orders existed here, and even some that were not affiliated with any religion.

RobertKK · 04-06-2014 07:11PM

bumper234 wrote: »

So that's a no then.

For the sake of the mods I am not discussing this, and can't comment any further on it.
Can take it to PM if you want.

bumper234 · 04-06-2014 07:13PM

RobertKK wrote: »

For the sake of the mods I am not discussing this, and can't comment any further on it.
Can take it to PM if you want.

Why can't you comment here?

Pocoyo · 04-06-2014 07:15PM

Awful still they were given more dignity than they would of got at gosnell style abortion clinic.

RobertKK · 04-06-2014 07:17PM

bumper234 wrote: »

Why can't you comment here?

I have been told not to by the way of an infraction.
It is how the mod viewed it and thus I have to respect it.

SpaceTime · 04-06-2014 07:18PM

Reformed Character wrote: »

Who made it shameful? The doctrine of the RCC, a church built on the death of a supposed phrophet who was himself illegitimate , being born out of wedlock!
The church created the toxic atmosphere around unmarried mums and then you blame the families for listening to the message being propagated by that self same church!
Instead of trying to blame the victims in an effort to protect the church, why don't you deal with the issue at hand, 800 dead children, many of whom were starved by those well paid (oh yes there was no charity about this, it was a solely commercial enterprise) to provide for them, and then discarded in a septic tank because the CHURCH considered them to illegitimate and thus not even deserving of a decent burial.

I'd actually go a step further. It was a terrifying marriage of the worst of Edwardian / Victorian society which was obsessed with 'respectability' above all else with the harshest interpretation of a puritanical version of Catholicism which was somehow morphed into quasi-official and sometimes official state policy!

So, we had institutions that should have disappeared in Dickens' era still in full service in the 1960s and 70s!

Effectively, Ireland managed to become Catholic Victorians in the 20th century and probably up into the 1980s and even 90s.

Stinicker · 04-06-2014 07:25PM

I think these are fairly common place in Rural Ireland, I know there is one of them where I live here in Co. Kerry and they are called "A Kileen" or "Ciliin" basically they are where unbaptised babies were buried or those born to single mothers. This went on for years and single mothers were seen as outcasts right up until the 1990's in some parts of rural Ireland and many of the older generation still harbor such prejudices.

endacl · 04-06-2014 07:25PM

Pocoyo wrote: »

Awful still they were given more dignity than they would of got at gosnell style abortion clinic.

Seriously?

It could have been worse? That's what you're saying?!?

They were dumped in a chamber designed to break down sh1t. Hundreds of them. Over decades. It could have been worse? How?

ScumLord · 04-06-2014 07:28PM

My name is URL wrote: »

Plenty of other countries and societies managed to resist such influences from the church.

You'd like to think, my fear is they're still at this stuff in poorer countries where they can maintain the same level of national propaganda and get away with it as they did here for so long.

byhookorbycrook · 04-06-2014 07:32PM

Stinicker wrote: »

I think these are fairly common place in Rural Ireland, I know there is one of them where I live here in Co. Kerry and they are called "A Kileen" or "Ciliin" basically they are where unbaptised babies were buried or those born to single mothers. This went on for years and single mothers were seen as outcasts right up until the 1990's in some parts of rural Ireland and many of the older generation still harbor such prejudices.

I remember John McKenna, the writer, talk of men in the middle of the night with brown paper parcels and shovels trying to find burial grounds for babies where still born or died soon after birth. Always stuck in my mind as an image of cruelty.

Ash.J.Williams · 04-06-2014 08:16PM

Some friends of mine stood up against a paedo priest and the parish Catholic pr1cks tried to ruin them locally.... Including anonymous letters of hate, human excrement deliveries... And general hatred..... This was in the 80's so you can imagine what these people were like in the 20s. Anyway in this decade the priest was finally dealt with and it turned out he was a serial anal rapist and his trade was assisted by the higher levels of the church who kindly moved him on as usual. The reason I mention this is it was probably the same type of catholic sheep that sent those poor girls out of their villages to these homes.

04-06-2014 08:23PM

I think at this stage the Catholic Church was an organisational form of Josip Fritzl. An absolutely harrowing disgusting story which has emerged. Im boling with anger and full of sorrow for those poor souls at the same time :mad:

Is this what we fought British Rule for? So this evil basket case of a church could prosper once more?

diveout · 04-06-2014 08:24PM

Ash.J.Williams wrote: »

Some friends of mine stood up against a paedo priest and the parish Catholic pr1cks tried to ruin them locally.... Including anonymous letters of hate, human excrement deliveries... And general hatred..... This was in the 80's so you can imagine what these people were like in the 20s. Anyway in this decade the priest was finally dealt with and it turned out he was a serial anal rapist and his trade was assisted by the higher levels of the church who kindly moved him on as usual. The reason I mention this is it was probably the same type of catholic sheep that sent those poor girls out of their villages to these homes.

That is incredible.

Mars Bar · 04-06-2014 08:28PM

A guy I know just wrote this on facebook

Like many others I am shocked by the revelations concering the 'Home', but in truth there is a lot more to this tale than the disposal of dead children and babies.

I grew up beside the home and when I started in primary school in The Presentation Convent there were 'homebabies' in the same classroom. I was going to say 'the same class' but this would have been a misuse of the term. I was 4 years old then and was being subtlety taught discrimination. The 'homebabies' were put into a seperate row near the windows. [The windows could be opened to let any foul smell out of the room, if they arrived unwashed.] Any student who misbehaved in class was warned that they would be put sitting beside the 'homebabies' as punishment. No one wanted this to happen as then you would be bullied by the other students by being called a 'homebaby'.

In the school yard the 'homebabies' played in an area on their own. They did not mix with the other children and you did not dare play with them. If you did you would be called a 'homebaby' and nobody wanted this to happen to them, so you stayed well clear of them.
I remember being bullied one time in the playground by a fellow student and this burly female 'homebaby' reacted in my favour and warned the bully not to be hitting me or she would deal with them. The bully backed off but afterwards when I went into the yard for play I carefully positioned myself close to that female 'homebaby' for protection. Amazingly, I still remember her name and have always carried a prayer in my heart for her. I don't know what became of her but I will be forever grateful to MARY CURRAN for her courage and integrity for protecting someone she saw as a victim, not caring or perhaps realizing that she was the real victim in the first place.

The 'homebabies' wore hobnailed boots and could be heard trotting to and from school. Inevitably they were always late for school and inevitably they received corpoal punishment each day for their tardiness, even though they were coming from a religious institution and were not personally responsible for their tardiness. Even as a young child, I regarded this as cruel as I was aware that they could not leave the 'Home' until their adult supervisors brought them to the school.

They were housed behind eight foot high walls that had glass shards stuck along the capping to prevent anyone from climbing in or out.

They wore a grey uniform and must have lived a very grey life, They were moved onto other institutions as soon as possible or fostered or adopted.

It is hard to imagine living in such a loveless way, with no personal care or attention being administered. No one to give you a hug.
They were regarded as the 'devil's children' even though their only sin was to be born to a single parent and out of wedlock. They were truly regarded as 'bastards' and they had absolutley no standing in society.

From what I learned their mothers stayed with them for the first year and then were sent to other institutions or sent to England but rarely returned to their homes. Society completely ostracised them also.

I have been asked why didn't someone cry 'stop!' but those in power were firmly in control and it was impossible to challange them.
The religious of that time were completely obsessed with 'sex as a sin'. The model of the day was one of utter morality and sex outside of marriage was the greatest of mortal sins. The sad thing is that the fathers who created these children were never held responsible and only the female was regarded as the sinner.
It is sad to think that the church that purported to be 'christian' behaved in such an unchristian way. Perhaps they believed that by 'looking after' these godless children that they were fulfilling their duties,

The answer to these illegitimate children was to hide them away behind high walls, to sweep the problem under the carpet, It is time to stop this sweeping under the carpet and hiding thngs away, it is time for a full and extensive investigation not only into the deaths of these children but also into their lives and the lives of their hapless and unfortunate mothers.

It is time for HOME truths!

It is time for justice!

denhaagenite · 04-06-2014 08:32PM

Mars Bar wrote: »

A guy I know just wrote this on facebook

That is nothing short of harrowing

AnonoBoy · 04-06-2014 08:34PM

Mars Bar wrote: »

A guy I know just wrote this on facebook

I just read that myself on Facebook.

It's a f*cked up country that we lived in and it's even more f*cked up to think that there are people TODAY still defending this sort of behaviour.

Reformed Character · 04-06-2014 08:36PM

denhaagenite wrote: »

That is nothing short of harrowing

I actually felt sick reading it, I am a man of 50 and it near broke my heart.

Maphisto · 04-06-2014 08:44PM

Reformed Character wrote: »

I actually felt sick reading it, I am a man of 50 and it near broke my heart.

Snap

Mars Bar wrote: »

A guy I know just wrote this on facebook

Incredibly sad

SEPT 23 1989 · 04-06-2014 09:01PM

Finally.it's top story on the rte news and they move swiftly along to the next story

796 children buried in Septic Tank in Galway - ### Mod Warning in 1st Post

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