Manchester United Superthread 2014 mod warning #8081

TheTownie · 03-06-2014 08:59AM

duffman13 wrote: »

+1 on this. If he has a system and a structure he wants to adopt then he should be allowed to implement it. I think we all believe Fabregas is a massively talented player but if LVG doesn't think he fits then I would trust him.

Under Moyes we were trying to sign marquee names like Fab*, but that is not always the right move. Mata was a signing to appease discontent in January. I'm delighted we got him but not what we needed as a priority. If LVG has players he wants to sign that are going to integrate into the system and are not big names we need to trust him.

*I'm not saying Fabregas is not a huge improvement on what's currently available.

As you are kind of alluding to in your last line, theres a big difference between a marquee signing for a position your well stocked in and a marquee signing for a position severely lacking in quality.

duffman13 · 03-06-2014 09:06AM

TheTownie wrote: »

As you are kind of alluding to in your last line, theres a big difference between a marquee signing for a position your well stocked in and a marquee signing for a position severely lacking in quality.

Agreed he might be a marquee signing but he might not be the right fit for the system LVG is going to try employ. Again I would love to see him sign but if he is not what LVG requires we are better of not getting hung up on Fabregas. He is a hugely successful manager so he should be given some faith that he is going to get it right.

Mitch Connor · 03-06-2014 09:18AM

duffman13 wrote: »

Agreed he might be a marquee signing but he might not be the right fit for the system LVG is going to try employ. Again I would love to see him sign but if he is not what LVG requires we are better of not getting hung up on Fabregas. He is a hugely successful manager so he should be given some faith that he is going to get it right.

But what are the odds on Woodward prising some other top class player away instead of an actually available fabregas.

Cantona's Collars · 03-06-2014 09:19AM

We've gone from not interested to bidding €43 million for Fabergas in 24 hours if Sport.es are to be believed.

duffman13 · 03-06-2014 09:27AM

Mitch Connor wrote: »

But what are the odds on Woodward prising some other top class player away instead of an actually available fabregas.

Haha these are the variables which make us love football. We can presume (hope) he learned from last years fiasco.

FutureGuy · 03-06-2014 09:30AM

Larry Wildman wrote: »

Hopefully that's the case.

The nightmare scenario is Van Gaal saying "Letsh not shign anyone...I want to shee how good this England international Tom Cleverly ish firsht".

All jokes aside, that's exactly what I expect from LVG.

No signings until late Summer lads and lassies. He'll take a look at who's at the club and then decide who needs to go and who we attempt to get in.

Adamcp898 · 03-06-2014 09:38AM

Surely LVG looks at Fabregas and then looks at our midfield and realises that whether he's top of his list or not, he'd improve things ten-fold.

We need more than one midfielder anyway so why not just go and get the world class player that's available and then go chase your No. 1 target as opposed to chasing him all Summer, failing, and signing Marouane bloody Fellaini. I mean it's as if we have learned nothing from the debacle that was last Summer and the previous 6 years signing no decent CM :mad:

Hococop · 03-06-2014 09:38AM

Corvo wrote: »

Sorry Larry, still suffering the effects of the weekend.

Well if Van Gaal feels the team would be better served by a different player then I will trust his experience.

I can completely understand this but my main worry is if van gaal goes for his target player and is unsuccessful then we are in serious trouble

Larry Wildman · 03-06-2014 09:41AM

FutureGuy wrote: »

All jokes aside, that's exactly what I expect from LVG.

No signings until late Summer lads and lassies. He'll take a look at who's at the club and then decide who needs to go and who we attempt to get in.

You may be right.

Hopefully the best players are still available at that stage.

My concern would be that we pass on Fabregas with a view to signing a crocked guy like Strootman or someone else and they're not available or don't want to come leaving us scrambling around at the last minute for the dregs like Fellaini.

The other side to this is that Chelsea with Cesc Fabregas and Diego Costa (plus Oscar, Hazard, etc) will be very strong next year...Mourinho plus that squad will be tough to overhaul, nevermind our noisy neighbours.

FutureGuy · 03-06-2014 09:41AM

Adamcp898 wrote: »

Surely LVG looks at Fabregas and then looks at our midfield and realises that whether he's top of his list or not, he'd improve things ten-fold.

We need more than one midfielder anyway so why not just go and get the world class player that's available and then go chase your No. 1 target as opposed to chasing him all Summer, failing, and signing Marouane bloody Fellaini. I mean it's as if we have learned nothing from the debacle that was last Summer and the previous 6 years signing no decent CM :mad:

There's a lot more to it than "look at the midfield". He said he like sto mold younger players, and will probably do that quicker than spend 35m on a replacement. For all we know, a player like Fabregas does not fit into HIS vision for HIS United.

I hope the Dutch get knocked out of the WC asap.

Adamcp898 · 03-06-2014 09:55AM

FutureGuy wrote: »

There's a lot more to it than "look at the midfield". He said he like sto mold younger players, and will probably do that quicker than spend 35m on a replacement. For all we know, a player like Fabregas does not fit into HIS vision for HIS United.

I hope the Dutch get knocked out of the WC asap.

I'm aware I'm oversimplifying things, but if he wants to spend the time to mould young players then I dare say he might not have us challenging within a year like he said. That and he's still going to have to sign young midfielders anyway so in addition to that it couldn't hurt to splurge on either one of the top young midfielders out there like Koke etc. or else spend nearly half that on a Fabregas, Kroos etc.

That and I'm terrified his plan is to sign Strootman and us making excuses all year that he hasn't had a pre-season if he underperforms.

TheTownie · 03-06-2014 09:57AM

zerks wrote: »

We've gone from not interested to bidding €43 million for Fabergas in 24 hours if Sport.es are to be believed.

Sporting Witness give a good run down of that article;

Catalan newspaper Sport say on their front page today 'Mou joins the auction for Cesc' and go on to ask 'Who bids more?' before listing the following:

Manchester United €43m

Chelsea €40m

Arsenal €36m

That of course makes it looks like they're claiming Manchester United have, or will, bid €43m for Cesc Fabregas. They repeat the claim with a graphic inside but in their actual article don't mention it once, contradict it by saying Manchester United and Arsenal are simply waiting in the wings, and say Chelsea are closest to a deal, therefore making the figures look like something added after the article to make it all a little sexier or 'cescier'. Apologies.

Here's the thing, we don't think Sport have a clue what is happening with Fabregas, which clubs are interested and what they may bid. Not a clue, not even a little one. No inside information whatsoever at this stage. No better idea than the average fan guessing. That sounds odd for a usually well connected Catalan newspaper but it's the only conclusion we can get to given the following timeline.

Sport, May 21st: Manchester United would bid up to €53m for Fabregas and Arsenal can't afford him.

Sport, May 24th: Chelsea have 'no chance' and Fabregas will only join Arsenal.

Sport, May 31st: Manchester United prepared to bid €37m, Chelsea also in the hunt, Arsenal not interested and Manchester City unlikely because of FFP.

Sport, June 1st: Arsenal favourites as Darren Dein meets Arsene Wenger.

Sport, later on June 1st: Manchester City have agreed a deal for Fabregas which could be worth up to €58m.

Sport, June 3rd: Arsenal will offer €36m, Chelsea €40m and Manchester United €43m.

The newspaper have tied themselves up in knots. It looks like there's much less going on than what they hoped for and therefore news is being spat out at a blistering rate, with no care for how contradictory it may be.

Agueroooo · 03-06-2014 10:00AM

a lot of newspapers are not reporting either that Barca owe Arsenal a reported £16 million from both the Song and Fabragas deals.

I still expect Chelsea to have a big say in his future.

Cantona's Collars · 03-06-2014 10:02AM

TheTownie wrote: »

Sporting Witness give a good run down of that article;

Sport Witness are one of the best sources,they go through them all,even translate foreign sources & call them as reliable or bs.

glued · 03-06-2014 10:05AM

Mikeyt086 wrote: »

Is that not clearly the club trying to save face after being told Fabregas isn't interested in us?

If Fabregas signs for Chelsea, it will be because he had agreed to it and told the other teams interested, who then have briefed the media that they are not interested (Us, Pool and Arsenal).

That's total b0llocks. How is that clearly the club trying to save face? It's perfectly feasible that van Gaal doesn't want him either. Fabregas and his agent burnt themselves badly last summer.

greendom · 03-06-2014 10:06AM

Agueroooo wrote: »

a lot of newspapers are not reporting either that Barca owe Arsenal a reported £16 million from both the Song and Fabragas deals.

I still expect Chelsea to have a big say in his future.

Mourinho likes his midfielders to track back. never been one of Cesc's fortes.

Agueroooo · 03-06-2014 10:09AM

greendom wrote: »

Mourinho likes his midfielders to track back. never been one of Cesc's fortes.

true, but the clear out he has done leaves a massive hole that is ideal for a player like Cesc, and with Willian now being converted into his new Makélélé then I think the rumours are more than just that.

ShaneU · 03-06-2014 10:12AM

We tried to sign Kurt Zouma in January http://www1.skysports.com/football/news/11095/9336154/transfer-news-kurt-zouma-says-he-snubbed-manchester-united-to-join-chelsea

FutureGuy · 03-06-2014 10:13AM

Agueroooo wrote: »

true, but the clear out he has done leaves a massive hole that is ideal for a player like Cesc, and with Willian now being converted into his new Makélélé then I think the rumours are more than just that.

I can easily see Fabregas at Chelsea next year.

Manutd_4life · 03-06-2014 10:16AM

ShaneU wrote: »

We tried to sign Kurt Zouma in January http://www1.skysports.com/football/news/11095/9336154/transfer-news-kurt-zouma-says-he-snubbed-manchester-united-to-join-chelsea

add that to the list of failed transfer targets

kryogen · 03-06-2014 10:17AM

Larry Wildman wrote: »

How so?

My point is that Moyes lacked credibility.

Mourinho, Van Gaal, Ancellotti, Ferguson, etc have gravitas because of what they've achieved in the game.

I'm not trying to be unkind, but Moyes is effectively a nobody compared to the great managers.

When Mourinho, Van Gaal, Ancelotti and Ferguson had achieved nothing they still managed to get players to perform at a high level, their personalities, they were winners, people wanted to go out and perform for them. They would not need to use gimmicks like that to get a performance out of someone.

Who they coached in the past meant **** all.

Larry Wildman · 03-06-2014 10:23AM

kryogen wrote: »

When Mourinho, Van Gaal, Ancelotti and Ferguson had achieved nothing they still managed to get players to perform at a high level, their personalities, they were winners, people wanted to go out and perform for them. They would not need to use gimmicks like that to get a performance out of someone.

Who they coached in the past meant **** all.

Yes and no.

When Ferguson started out, he achieved wonders with "non stars", thus obtaining credibility. Plus even at United in '86, because there was no Bosman stuff, the manager had massive control over the players. And the highest paid player at United was on £100k a year so didn't have the financial security that Wayne Rooney has.

Mourinho did the same with Porto - He was a Champions League winner when he walked into Stamford Bridge.

Van Gaal built his reputation with young (and educated!) players at Ajax.

Ancellotti was part of the great Milan team (Van Basten etc) and a club legend.

Moyes had none of that. He has achieved f..k all in the game and you can conceivably see a modern day footballer challenging him on that point.

Mitch Connor · 03-06-2014 11:02AM

Agueroooo wrote: »

a lot of newspapers are not reporting either that Barca owe Arsenal a reported £16 million from both the Song and Fabragas deals.

I still expect Chelsea to have a big say in his future.

They owed that much 1year ago, it has likely come down. Also, it doesn't make them selling to arsenal any clearer - arsenal would have accounted for that money, as would barca.

Rayne Wooney · 03-06-2014 11:29AM

It could be a case of Fabregas not wanting to join us or that Van Gaal just doesn't want him

If it's the latter he better have somebody else lined up, starting the season with Cleverley, Carrick Fellaini and probably Strootman just isn't going to be good enough at all.

It's going to be last year all over again where a few months in we'll be suffering because of the CM and we'll be wondering what players we can buy in January to fix if

nullzero · 03-06-2014 12:20PM

My opinion would be that Fabregas doesn't like United and wouldn't move to us if we were the last club on earth. He has shown his dislike of United in the past and used us to gain leverage over his club last year. He will go to Chelsea, and probably be very successful. United however still need to secure at least two top class midfielders and Koke heading to Barcelona to replace Fabregas takes another midfield player out of the equation for United.

Mikeyt086 · 03-06-2014 12:21PM

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

It could be a case of Fabregas not wanting to join us or that Van Gaal just doesn't want him

If it's the latter he better have somebody else lined up, starting the season with Cleverley, Carrick Fellaini and probably Strootman just isn't going to be good enough at all.

It's going to be last year all over again where a few months in we'll be suffering because of the CM and we'll be wondering what players we can buy in January to fix if

Thats what I said. Cesc Fabregas probably doesn't want to play for us without Champions League football. United media team brief journos that we aren't interested.

Seems plausible to me. "Total bollox" to others apparently. Why the **** wouldn't we be interested in Cesc? Because he snubbed us last year? So now when we need him even more, it's "Nah you had your chance bro."

glued · 03-06-2014 12:35PM

Mikeyt086 wrote: »

Thats what I said. Cesc Fabregas probably doesn't want to play for us without Champions League football. United media team brief journos that we aren't interested.

Seems plausible to me. "Total bollox" to others apparently. Why the **** wouldn't we be interested in Cesc? Because he snubbed us last year? So now when we need him even more, it's "Nah you had your chance bro."

Maybe becuase he's been fairly poor this year. Barcelona are selling him becuase after him stamping his feet last summer he's failed to live up to the hype.

Also what we tell journalists and what we're actually doing are two completely separate things. I would like to see Cesc at United but not at the expense of another midfield signing.

If van Gaal wanted Cesc we would be trying to sign him. We may well be trying to do so but the indications are that we aren't but I would insist that it's entirely plausible that the club are going to keep their mouths shut until a deal is done after how badly we were burnt last summer.

Corvo · 03-06-2014 12:44PM

glued wrote: »

Maybe becuase he's been fairly poor this year. Barcelona are selling him becuase after him stamping his feet last summer he's failed to live up to the hype.

Also what we tell journalists and what we're actually doing are two completely separate things. I would like to see Cesc at United but not at the expense of another midfield signing.

If van Gaal wanted Cesc we would be trying to sign him. We may well be trying to do so but the indications are that we aren't but I would insist that it's entirely plausible that the club are going to keep their mouths shut until a deal is done after how badly we were burnt last summer.

I would imagine that if United are enquiring or beginning negotiations with Barcelona it would be very subtle and I would also imagine it would be a "look, can we get this done asap - as we aren't hanging around this year only for Darren Dein to screw us over again".

As for the reasons they are getting rid of him? Well its quite simple - he held them to ransom last year for more playing time, which had already pissed off the fans and then he does not produce the goods as much as he is expected to - again ensuring he his booed.

But more than that, I think Barcelona just really want Koke who is an upgrade on him in my opinion or will be in approx 2 years.

Lord TSC · 03-06-2014 01:07PM

LVG talks on his attitude towards players and those who don't adapt to his playstyle...

"I am a coach who wants a good relationship with my players, I think it is very important," Van Gaal, in Amsterdam preparing for the World Cup with the Netherlands, said.

"I do everything to reach that level, but sometimes it is not reachable as the players are not open-minded and don't adapt to the norms that I put in the team.

"When you are not listening, always out, or I go out."

Source: http://www.espn.co.uk/football/sport/story/312313.html

keane2097 · 03-06-2014 01:27PM

stankratz wrote: »

That's amazing.

Manchester United Superthread 2014 mod warning #8081

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