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Is Phil Hogan a "bigoted racist"?

2

Comments

  • #32
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    McNulty737 wrote: »
    ...............



    Not a racist.....

    If he wrote a letter saying he'd prevented a family of handicapped people move nearby, it wouldn't be acceptable, nor if they were Poles, Americans, Muslims, Protestants, Catholics or anything else.


  • #33
    eviltwin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    Nodin wrote: »
    If he wrote a letter saying he'd prevented a family of handicapped people move nearby, it wouldn't be acceptable, nor if they were Poles, Americans, Muslims, Protestants, Catholics or anything else.

    Does the fact it was a family known for anti social behaviour not override any of the above?


  • #34
    Arthur Beesley
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,537 ✭✭✭Arthur Beesley


    Wishiwasa Littlebitaller wrote: »
    Loved when he said: 'That's not a knife. THAT'S a knife'.

    Don't be silly. That was Hulk Hogan. Everyone knows that.


  • #35
    Clandestine
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,466 ✭✭✭Clandestine


    Its time to get rid of defamation laws. A person should not be fined for an opinion


  • #36
    Shakespeare's Sister
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,412 ✭✭✭Shakespeare's Sister


    Clandestine wrote: »
    Its time to get rid of defamation laws. A person should not be fined for an opinion
    Defamation is when it can be proven the opinion in question is untrue. It wouldn't be a good thing to get rid of this protection. Gutter rags can be bad enough as it is.


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  • #37
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    eviltwin wrote: »
    Does the fact it was a family known for anti social behaviour not override any of the above?

    It would seem to be irrelevant

    "He had earlier been urged to make a full statement over his apparent intervention in a housing allocation case to prevent a Traveller family from being housed

    The Irish Traveller Movement has expressed concern.
    It said it understands that neither Minister Hogan nor Junior Minister Jan O'Sullivan have the legislative functions to impose or intervene in individual cases on accommodation matters.
    "We are therefore concerned that in this case involving a family in Kilkenny that Minister Hogan should appear to intervene favourably on a constituent's behalf, in what could be interpreted as being opposed to the favourable provision of housing to Travellers."
    http://www.rte.ie/news/2012/0926/339198-phil-hogan-traveller-family-house/


  • #38
    Einhard
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,919 ✭✭✭Einhard


    I don't really get all the hate or Phil Hogan. Not exactly a fan of the man, but he seems to be a target for a whole lot of opprobrium. People here calling him a slimeball etc. What's he actually done to warrant this? I know he's responsible for bringing in the property tax and water charges, but they were both flagged before the election so not sure why people would be so angry towards the man for bringing them in. Is he just a lightning rod for people's anger towards the government in general, or is the anger towards him as an individual justified?

    Just curious here.


  • #39
    Galwayguy35
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,184 ✭✭✭✭Galwayguy35


    So he voiced the concerns of some of his constituents about Travellers moving into the area, I've seen the way they treat houses that they are given and the cost of repairing them (which we pay for bTW).

    He never said they shouldn't get the house.

    Anyone that watches Tonight with VB knows he defends Travellers to the hilt but will never touch on the criminality issue, Martin Collins is always on because he knows he will be preaching to the converted.


  • #40
    Arthur Beesley
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,537 ✭✭✭Arthur Beesley


    Clandestine wrote: »
    Its time to get rid of defamation laws. A person should not be fined for an opinion

    So you think it should be okay for someone to anti Semitic because that is an 'opinion' surely?


  • #41
    Reformed Character
    Closed Accounts Posts: 710 ✭✭✭Reformed Character


    Arthur Beesley wrote: »
    Don't be silly. That was Hulk Hogan. Everyone knows that.

    Actually it was Paul Hogan:)


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  • #42
    BBJBIG
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 277 ✭✭BBJBIG


    Don't be Silly Billies ...

    Philo is as pure as the Driven Snow.
    Cleaener than a NuN's Knickers.

    Don't ya Know ...

    Loike - he wouldn't do nuttin stooopid loike.

    ;)


  • #43
    Arthur Beesley
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,537 ✭✭✭Arthur Beesley


    Reformed Character wrote: »
    Actually it was Paul Hogan:)

    Thanks for clearing that up.


  • #44
    McNulty737
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 226 ✭✭McNulty737


    Nodin wrote: »
    If he wrote a letter saying he'd prevented a family of handicapped people move nearby, it wouldn't be acceptable, nor if they were Poles, Americans, Muslims, Protestants, Catholics or anything else.

    The issue is not the fact that they were travellers, the issue is the fact that they have a history of anti social behaviour. How would you feel if a family with a history of anti social behaviour were given a house (for free) right beside your house (which you paid for) thus subjecting your family and community to elements of criminality and also reducing the value of your house?

    It's political correctness gone mad when we get labelled as being prejudiced for commenting on the anti social tendencies of a certain sector of society. I think all anti social behaviour should be opposed regardless of the perpetrators - to consistently give travellers a free pass is absurd and damaging to society.


  • #45
    Manach
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 9,904 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manach


    A plague on both houses would seem appropriate.
    On one hand, and attempt to silence a government critic which contravenes the presmise of Freedom of expression. On the other that critic has not acted in a reasonable manner by using the term "bigoted" which seems to be a catchall slur for anyone the Leftist Progressives dislike.
    Ideally, both parties spend years in court over this.


  • #46
    Frankie Lee
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,277 ✭✭✭Frankie Lee


    McNulty737 wrote: »
    The issue is not the fact that they were travellers, the issue is the fact that they have a history of anti social behaviour.

    Have you any evidence that the Carthy family have a history of anti social behaviour? If not that post could be considered defamatory.


  • #47
    McNulty737
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 226 ✭✭McNulty737


    Frankie Lee wrote: »
    Have you any evidence that the Carthy family have a history of anti social behaviour? If not that post could be considered defamatory.

    From my previous post:
    http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/traveller-in-phil-hogan-row-was-convicted-of-stealing-cash-28817253.html


  • #48
    Shakespeare's Sister
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,412 ✭✭✭Shakespeare's Sister


    Manach wrote: »
    A plague on both houses would seem appropriate.
    Wha?
    On one hand, and attempt to silence a government critic which contravenes the presmise of Freedom of expression.
    Silence? Nobody silenced him - he said it, it was broadcast.
    Phil Hogan is suing for defamation of character, which is basically a statement from him that what VB said was not true. And I wouldn't blame him - a bigoted racist is an awful thing to call someone, on the national airwaves too. Browne can be an idiot.

    Freedom of expression means you can say whatever you like to/about people even if it's not true? First I heard of it.


  • #49
    jimgoose
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,237 ✭✭✭✭jimgoose


    Blast them both with hot, beery piss says I. However, the only time I ever heard my late father use the word "bully" was in reference to Mr. Hogan.


  • #50
    rgossip30
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,031 ✭✭✭rgossip30


    McNulty737 wrote: »
    From my previous post:

    I am surprised some are not disputing the link as it is from that 'rag' Independent .
    There are those that just see what they want to see and ignore what is blazing in front of them.
    I doubt if any supporters of travellers would want this family living beside them.


  • #51
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    McNulty737 wrote: »
    The issue is not the fact that they were travellers, the issue is the fact that they have a history of anti social behaviour. How would you feel if a family with a history of anti social behaviour were given a house (for free) right beside your house (which you paid for) thus subjecting your family and community to elements of criminality and also reducing the value of your house?

    ...............

    He has no official powers to intervene.


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  • #52
    McNulty737
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 226 ✭✭McNulty737


    Nodin wrote: »
    He has no official powers to intervene.

    Ok, well if that is the case then it is an issue of whether or not he is a corrupt politician. It is not an issue of whether or not he is racist.


  • #53
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    McNulty737 wrote: »
    Ok, well if that is the case then it is an issue of whether or not he is a corrupt politician. It is not an issue of whether or not he is racist.



    ...if other families have moved in with a criminal history and he hasn't attempted to block them, then the "racist" motive resurfaces.


  • #54
    jank
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 13,016 ✭✭✭✭jank


    Nodin wrote: »
    He has no official powers to intervene.

    Correct, but he of course has the right to lobby.

    Regardless, the traveller in question seems to be a grand sort of fellow with multiple convictions ranging from stealing, cruelty to animals, trespassing and..
    Mr Carthy's solicitor said his client had consumed about eight pints before leaving the pub on the sulky and that he had sped up when the gardai had approached so as not to hold them up.

    He said the alcohol had clouded his client's judgment.

    At the trial, Mr Harte mentioned that Mr Carthy had previous road-traffic convictions and had been disqualified from driving, which was why he was using the sulky for transport.

    Id love to have him as my neighbour.


  • #55
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    jank wrote: »
    Correct, but he of course has the right to lobby.
    Regardless, the traveller in question seems to be a grand sort of fellow with multiple convictions ranging from stealing, cruelty to animals, trespassing and..
    Id love to have him as my neighbour.


    Is there any legislation or rule existing that prevents a family with a member that has criminal convictions getting a house?


  • #56
    jank
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 13,016 ✭✭✭✭jank


    Is there a rule somewhere that states if one lobbies not to have a criminal housed next to them there are racist?


    However, actually the above raises a more important wide ranging question. Why are the taxpayer giving this criminal a free house when they have such a lack of respect for the law. Why aren't welfare payments or allowances docked?

    If people want to know where the medical card money is going, look no further than this case.


  • #57
    McNulty737
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 226 ✭✭McNulty737


    Nodin wrote: »
    ...if other families have moved in with a criminal history and he hasn't attempted to block them, then the "racist" motive resurfaces.

    Pffft....there's the old "ethnic minority" victim card again.

    I think the bigger issue here is why a criminal like the "gentleman" in question is getting a free house in the first place? I am a law abiding tax paying (believe me) citizen, where is my free house?


  • #58
    Reformed Character
    Closed Accounts Posts: 710 ✭✭✭Reformed Character


    McNulty737 wrote: »
    Pffft....there's the old "ethnic minority" victim card again.

    I think the bigger issue here is why a criminal like the "gentleman" in question is getting a free house in the first place? I am a law abiding tax paying (believe me) citizen, where is my free house?

    So you don't believe in the concept of social housing, for anyone?


  • #59
    Shakespeare's Sister
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,412 ✭✭✭Shakespeare's Sister


    McNulty737 wrote: »
    I am a law abiding tax paying (believe me) citizen, where is my free house?
    You have the means to provide for yourself, others don't. Yeh some are freeloaders but lots just don't have many opportunities and are still trying to be as self sufficient as they can - you see it for instance when people eventually buy the house they live in, off the local authority.
    I would never want an end to state supports - it is disappointing that they can be taken advantage of though, of course, but I still wouldn't like to see an end to them. There but for the grace, etc.


  • #60
    Me?
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 269 ✭✭Me?


    I hope the Judge that hears this case understands what racism is.


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  • #61
    Lastlight.
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 203 ✭✭Lastlight.


    Well considering the amount of posts you get on travellers on here, he isn't in a minority.


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