Is Phil Hogan a "bigoted racist"?

Banjo String

I see big Phil is going to sue TV3 over claims made on the Vincent Browne show that Phil was a bigoted racist (the comments were made by Browne himself)

Phil is suing for defamation apparently. Bit OTT by Browne, but has Hogan left himself open for the criticism?

ENVIRONMENT Minister Phil Hogan is suing TV3 for defamation arising out of comments made by the broadcaster Vincent Browne, the High Court has heard.

Mr Hogan claims he was defamed on 'Tonight with Vincent Browne' on May 20 of last year by the broadcaster, in an exchange with Fine Gael TD and now Children's Minister Charlie Flanagan, who was a panelist on the show.

It is alleged Mr Browne described Mr Hogan as being "a bigoted racist" arising out of representations made by Mr Hogan on behalf of a constituent over the suitability of a family, who are members of the Travelling community for a vacant council property in Co Kilkenny.

Mr Hogan claims the remarks inferred he was prejudiced towards Travellers, sought to prevent the housing of members of the Travelling community, had breached the Incitement to Hatred Act and was not suitable for his role as minister or a TD.

He says the allegedly defamatory remarks have damaged his reputation and caused him extreme stress.

Mr Hogan is seeking damages and a correction order, and an order directing TV3 to remove the broadcast in question from its website.

TV3 denies his claims on grounds including that Mr Browne's statements consisted of an opinion honestly held by him. This opinion was based on grounds including that Mr Hogan made a number of public statements, including contact with Kilkenny County Council, regarding the matter.

In a pre-trial application to the High Court yesterday, Mr Hogan asked for an order amending his original statement of claim. Mr Hogan wished to amend his claim after checking a number of factual matters and several matters needed to be clarified, his counsel Rossa Fanning said.

However, counsel argued the amendments did not affect the central issues of Mr Hogan's claim.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/hogan-suing-tv3-over-claim-browne-called-him-bigoted-30318440.html

Big Phil has been an utter disaster for FG as far as PR goes. They really need to get him into a back room role Imo.

Be interesting how this one goes.

Reformed Character

He says the allegedly defamatory remarks have damaged his reputation and caused him extreme stress.

The only way you could damage that fúckers reputation would be by saying something good about him, I notice he is not claiming any damage to his "good name", probably because that would require him to show that he has one!

Richard Hillman

I hope he wins

migozarad

Bigotry,like anything,is all relative.I suggest you look north for a masterclass on bigotry inits truest,most unaldulterated form.See Pastor McConnell's anitcs in the last few days for example..

Banjo String

Reformed Character wrote: »

He says the allegedly defamatory remarks have damaged his reputation and caused him extreme stress.

The only way you could damage that fúckers reputation would be by saying something good about him, I notice he is not claiming any damage to his "good name", probably because that would require him to show that he has one!

I would almost say Phil is about 50% responsible for the drop in the party's popularity in the polls.

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience

Banjo String wrote: »

Phil is suing for defamation apparently. Bit OTT by Browne, but has Hogan left himself open for the criticism.



.

So because he's a ****e politician people should be able to say what they like about him?

Banjo String

Richard Hillman wrote: »

I hope he wins

And if he doesn't? Would that actually mean he is a "bigoted racist"?

Far better outcome for Phil would be to get Browne to withdraw the remark.

This could go either way.

gordongekko

I can't see this thread ending well

Banjo String

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience wrote: »

So because he's a ****e politician people should be able to say what they like about him?

If you could show me where I inferred anyone could say what they like about him, that'd be awful nice.

Thanks.

wp_rathead

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience wrote: »

So because he's a ****e politician people should be able to say what they like about him?

Infairness to Banjo - Im fairly sure he meant that by campaigning for the family not to get moved in "he is open to criticism" - the fact he is a gobsh!te has nothing to do with it..

suicide_circus

Maybe he could have said family housed in his Portuguese villa?

Reformed Character

suicide_circus wrote: »

Maybe he could have said family housed in his Portuguese villa?

The one he won't pay his legally due service charges on?

Arthur Beesley

No, but Vincent Browne is a gobsh**e.

Nonoperational

Banjo String wrote: »

If you could show me where I inferred anyone could say what they like about him, that'd be awful nice.

Thanks.

What a stupid, patronising post.

Banjo String

Nonoperational wrote: »

What a stupid, patronising post.

So stupid you make no attempt to counter it? I didn't suggest anyone could say what they wanted to about Phil Hogan, I even said Browne went OTT.

That makes your post an Ironic one.

fran17

no he's not.he may be a bit abrupt but he's a straight shooter and thats very rare in the dail.political correctness has gone mad nowadays and people just dont like hearing the truth anymore.who hear would like a traveller family with a history of trouble living nextdoor? show of hands please:D

tonycascarino

Phil Higan is one of the biggest slimeballs around. Hope he loses.

RobertKK

I can happily say I never voted for Big Phil, sent me a letter in the past which was not the truth in my opinion, about a local issue when politicians could be both councillors and TDs.

I wonder if they finally got the message as FG for the first time never canvassed me, though I wanted them to as I had a lot to say.

My name is URL

He's a gobshite in any case. Himself and Kenny don't seem to have much of a problem with referring to the nation's people as 'Paddies'

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/oireachtas/paddy-now-knows-the-charge-hogan-says-of-water-tax-of-240-average-per-household-1.1785808

I hope TV3 fight it to the end.

He says the allegedly defamatory remarks have damaged his reputation

lol

fran17

My name is URL wrote: »

He's a gobshite in any case. Himself and Kenny don't seem to have much of a problem with referring to the nation's people as 'Paddies'

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/oireachtas/paddy-now-knows-the-charge-hogan-says-of-water-tax-of-240-average-per-household-1.1785808

I hope TV3 fight it to the end.



lol

5/10 must do better

My name is URL

fran17 wrote: »

5/10 must do better

Excellent contribution as always

A few years ago i did not have any problems with the Irish traveler. Up until the last 2 years i am constantly on edge trying to stop them from breaking into my house and my neighbors house. Almost on a daily basis.

Time since last incident 1 Hour !

fran17

Deleted User wrote: »

A few years ago i did not have any problems with the Irish traveler. Up until the last 2 years i am constantly on edge trying to stop them from breaking into my house and my neighbors house. Almost on a daily basis.

Time since last incident 1 Hour !

i sympathise with you.my work place has the same problem every week of the year,including christmas week.what can you do though? neither the law,local government or politicians has the stomach to tackle it

oppenheimer1

Banjo String wrote: »

I see big Phil is going to sue TV3 over claims made on the Vincent Browne show that Phil was a bigoted racist (the comments were made by Browne himself)

Phil is suing for defamation apparently. Bit OTT by Browne, but has Hogan left himself open for the criticism?






http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/hogan-suing-tv3-over-claim-browne-called-him-bigoted-30318440.html

Big Phil has been an utter disaster for FG as far as PR goes. They really need to get him into a back room role Imo.

Be interesting how this one goes.

So you're asking people to say if Phil hogan is a bigoted racist, while he is taking legal action against someone for saying the same thing?!

Surprised this thread is still here, since they're usually locked and deleted for a lot less.

eviltwin

If people were concerned about travellers on the basis on anecdotal stories then yeah VB would have a point but there is a long history of criminality in the community. Obviously not them all but you don't know who you can or cannot trust and as such people are afraid. You can't blame them. Not many people would want a halting site or traveller housing near them.

rgossip30

Interesting will be the outcome. To know that you can sue someone who calls you a bigot or a racist .
A balance is overdue.

Tail Docker

rgossip30 wrote: »

Interesting will be the outcome. To know that you can sue someone who calls you a bigot or a racist .
A balance is overdue.

I read this in Yodas voice.

Supup

Travellers are not a 'race' FFS.

Wishiwasa Littlebitaller

Loved when he said: 'That's not a knife. THAT'S a knife'.

McNulty737

I agree, travellers are just as Irish as the rest of us. They play the ethnic minority victim card at every opportunity to the point where you can't condemn the rampant anti social behaviour associated with the traveling community without being labelled a 'racist'.

Also, the PC brigade choose to ignore the fact that the travellers in question did have an anti social behaviour history (surprise surprise):

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/traveller-in-phil-hogan-row-was-convicted-of-stealing-cash-28817253.html

Not a racist....and i'd love for Vincent Browne to have a few traveller families move next door to him.

Banjo String

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

So you're asking people to say if Phil hogan is a bigoted racist, while he is taking legal action against someone for saying the same thing?!

Surprised this thread is still here, since they're usually locked and deleted for a lot less.

Yeah that's exactly what I'm asking. If you agree with Browne or did Browne go over the top.

Nodin

McNulty737 wrote: »

...............



Not a racist.....

If he wrote a letter saying he'd prevented a family of handicapped people move nearby, it wouldn't be acceptable, nor if they were Poles, Americans, Muslims, Protestants, Catholics or anything else.

eviltwin

Nodin wrote: »

If he wrote a letter saying he'd prevented a family of handicapped people move nearby, it wouldn't be acceptable, nor if they were Poles, Americans, Muslims, Protestants, Catholics or anything else.

Does the fact it was a family known for anti social behaviour not override any of the above?

Arthur Beesley

Wishiwasa Littlebitaller wrote: »

Loved when he said: 'That's not a knife. THAT'S a knife'.

Don't be silly. That was Hulk Hogan. Everyone knows that.

Clandestine

Its time to get rid of defamation laws. A person should not be fined for an opinion

Shakespeare's Sister

Clandestine wrote: »

Its time to get rid of defamation laws. A person should not be fined for an opinion

Defamation is when it can be proven the opinion in question is untrue. It wouldn't be a good thing to get rid of this protection. Gutter rags can be bad enough as it is.

Nodin

eviltwin wrote: »

Does the fact it was a family known for anti social behaviour not override any of the above?

It would seem to be irrelevant

"He had earlier been urged to make a full statement over his apparent intervention in a housing allocation case to prevent a Traveller family from being housed

The Irish Traveller Movement has expressed concern.
It said it understands that neither Minister Hogan nor Junior Minister Jan O'Sullivan have the legislative functions to impose or intervene in individual cases on accommodation matters.
"We are therefore concerned that in this case involving a family in Kilkenny that Minister Hogan should appear to intervene favourably on a constituent's behalf, in what could be interpreted as being opposed to the favourable provision of housing to Travellers."
http://www.rte.ie/news/2012/0926/339198-phil-hogan-traveller-family-house/

Einhard

I don't really get all the hate or Phil Hogan. Not exactly a fan of the man, but he seems to be a target for a whole lot of opprobrium. People here calling him a slimeball etc. What's he actually done to warrant this? I know he's responsible for bringing in the property tax and water charges, but they were both flagged before the election so not sure why people would be so angry towards the man for bringing them in. Is he just a lightning rod for people's anger towards the government in general, or is the anger towards him as an individual justified?

Just curious here.

Galwayguy35

So he voiced the concerns of some of his constituents about Travellers moving into the area, I've seen the way they treat houses that they are given and the cost of repairing them (which we pay for bTW).

He never said they shouldn't get the house.

Anyone that watches Tonight with VB knows he defends Travellers to the hilt but will never touch on the criminality issue, Martin Collins is always on because he knows he will be preaching to the converted.

Arthur Beesley

Clandestine wrote: »

Its time to get rid of defamation laws. A person should not be fined for an opinion

So you think it should be okay for someone to anti Semitic because that is an 'opinion' surely?

Reformed Character

Arthur Beesley wrote: »

Don't be silly. That was Hulk Hogan. Everyone knows that.

Actually it was Paul Hogan:)

BBJBIG

Don't be Silly Billies ...

Philo is as pure as the Driven Snow.
Cleaener than a NuN's Knickers.

Don't ya Know ...

Loike - he wouldn't do nuttin stooopid loike.

Arthur Beesley

Reformed Character wrote: »

Actually it was Paul Hogan:)

Thanks for clearing that up.

McNulty737

Nodin wrote: »

If he wrote a letter saying he'd prevented a family of handicapped people move nearby, it wouldn't be acceptable, nor if they were Poles, Americans, Muslims, Protestants, Catholics or anything else.

The issue is not the fact that they were travellers, the issue is the fact that they have a history of anti social behaviour. How would you feel if a family with a history of anti social behaviour were given a house (for free) right beside your house (which you paid for) thus subjecting your family and community to elements of criminality and also reducing the value of your house?

It's political correctness gone mad when we get labelled as being prejudiced for commenting on the anti social tendencies of a certain sector of society. I think all anti social behaviour should be opposed regardless of the perpetrators - to consistently give travellers a free pass is absurd and damaging to society.

Manach

A plague on both houses would seem appropriate.
On one hand, and attempt to silence a government critic which contravenes the presmise of Freedom of expression. On the other that critic has not acted in a reasonable manner by using the term "bigoted" which seems to be a catchall slur for anyone the Leftist Progressives dislike.
Ideally, both parties spend years in court over this.

Frankie Lee

McNulty737 wrote: »

The issue is not the fact that they were travellers, the issue is the fact that they have a history of anti social behaviour.

Have you any evidence that the Carthy family have a history of anti social behaviour? If not that post could be considered defamatory.

McNulty737

Frankie Lee wrote: »

Have you any evidence that the Carthy family have a history of anti social behaviour? If not that post could be considered defamatory.

From my previous post:

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/traveller-in-phil-hogan-row-was-convicted-of-stealing-cash-28817253.html

Shakespeare's Sister

Manach wrote: »

A plague on both houses would seem appropriate.

Wha?

On one hand, and attempt to silence a government critic which contravenes the presmise of Freedom of expression.

Silence? Nobody silenced him - he said it, it was broadcast.
Phil Hogan is suing for defamation of character, which is basically a statement from him that what VB said was not true. And I wouldn't blame him - a bigoted racist is an awful thing to call someone, on the national airwaves too. Browne can be an idiot.

Freedom of expression means you can say whatever you like to/about people even if it's not true? First I heard of it.

jimgoose

Blast them both with hot, beery piss says I. However, the only time I ever heard my late father use the word "bully" was in reference to Mr. Hogan.

rgossip30

McNulty737 wrote: »

From my previous post:

I am surprised some are not disputing the link as it is from that 'rag' Independent .
There are those that just see what they want to see and ignore what is blazing in front of them.
I doubt if any supporters of travellers would want this family living beside them.

Nodin

McNulty737 wrote: »

The issue is not the fact that they were travellers, the issue is the fact that they have a history of anti social behaviour. How would you feel if a family with a history of anti social behaviour were given a house (for free) right beside your house (which you paid for) thus subjecting your family and community to elements of criminality and also reducing the value of your house?

...............

He has no official powers to intervene.