Catholic-bashing.

shruikan2553 · 31-05-2014 11:06AM

I rarely see anything that I would consider catholic bashing. "Catholic bashing" seems to be pointing out the atrocities of the organisation and not aimed at the followers. Sometimes someone might question how can bread become the flesh of a 2000 year old man? Oh well thats obviously church bashing.

The only time I see something aimed at the Catholic rather than the organisation it is when they claim same sex marriage is a pedophile conspiracy or how we need the church otherwise we would have no morals. Then these same people always avoid the atrocities and act like they never happened. Its as if they support the what the church has done and I will criticise anyone who think what they did was ok no matter what religion or lack of they are.

Then theres all the non Catholic bashing you get, everyone has to be a catholic and if you arent then you are just trying to be awkward for the sake of it and will grow out of it.

This pretty much sums up a lot of it
http://cdnimg.visualizeus.com/thumbs/0b/ed/atheism,comics,funny,ignorance-0bed5157b06eb3ef5a08ea448e9a4721_h.jpg?ts=93246

Zed Bank · 31-05-2014 11:09AM

It's funny how much the religious loons come out of the woodwork the minute someone even dare say anything negative about their faith.

Pawn · 31-05-2014 11:10AM

Legs.Eleven wrote: »

Oh yeah? Funny how I never encounter it at all outside the internet. Strange.

Oh I soo love this "it never happened to me therefore it does not happen to anyone" way of thinking.

Have a nice day

31-05-2014 11:10AM

FTA69 wrote: »

Can you not see why people would be understandably aggrieved with Catholicism in Ireland?

An awful lot of what I read being being aggrieved about, no I wouldn't agree with it as I see it as trolling.

Big generalisations are one if the main things people like to latch onto. Nobody is trying to deny that a small number of people in the Catholic Church did terrible things (as did many outside the church also). But when you read the crap some are posting you would think everyone of the one billion plus Catholics were involved not an extremely extremly small number.

Satriale wrote: »

If you want tiresome, try not baptising your children, and listening to normally reasonable family and friends harassing you for years about your decision not to indoctrinate them.

fcuk religion and the donkey it rode in on...

I would be in agreement with your friends and family on that one.

mezuzaj · 31-05-2014 11:11AM

SW wrote: »

Tell that to the unmarried mothers (and their children that were given up for adoption) shipped such places as the one in Tuam.

There are over 100,000 kids today in Russia in orphanages, many who don't have proper treatment. Go to Belarus... See how they live.

People are great for Cherry picking things from 70 years ago, at a time when we didn't have social welfare. The Church is damned if it does or damned if it doesn't.

Those were the social realities of the day. Not just in Catholic Ireland but also Protestant England.... What do people think happened to unmarried mothers in England in the 40's..

Child mortality was high in Ireland 70 years ago.. not just in catholic institutions but in society at large.

What some Catholics did was not right, but you have to judge historical acts in historical context.

Czarcasm · 31-05-2014 11:13AM

weldoninhio wrote: »

Anyone who believes in a higher being in this day and age deserves ridicule. Be they Catholic, Islamic, Protestant. It's outdated, and ridiculous. The hypocrisy of these organisations, all of them, is pathetic.

That could easily be turned on it's head though to say that anyone who believes they have a right to ridicule other people, deserves to be ridiculed. Belief in a higher power is hardly outdated either when there are still more people who believe, than people who don't. And as for the whole hypocrisy thing, well, everyone's a hypocrite in one way or another when they judge other people, yet think they themselves should not be judged.

As for the topic at hand, I don't think catholic bashing is as cool as it used to be any more. A couple of years ago it was cool to label all Catholics a bunch of kiddy-fiddling pricks, not so much nowadays, as people are beginning to realize that it gets them nowhere. You might as well be pissing into the wind for all it's worth.

As Legs mentioned earlier, it doesn't really happen so much offline because people are more civil to each other. But when they're online, there's a disconnect from reality and some people use the unregulated space as a vehicle for their hatred.

I've seen and been involved in some great discussions about criticism of religion here on Boards alone, but there's always going to be the extremists that ruin the discussion for everyone, because they shout the loudest, and they shout the longest. There are fundamentalist extremists on both sides - those who hate non-believers, and those who hate believers, with neither side too bothered about realizing they're the very people perpetuating hatred, rather than fostering tolerance and understanding among people, regardless of their beliefs, or indeed lack thereof.

I hate to sound cliche but, well, haters gonna hate, regardless of the topic being discussed, and it's the hate is irrational, rather than the belief or lack thereof, because what progress has hate ever achieved for people who lament the lack of progress in society?

Legs.Eleven · 31-05-2014 11:13AM

Pawn wrote: »

Oh I soo love this "it never happened to me therefore it does not happen to anyone" way of thinking.

Have a nice day

Nah, it's more a case of, "I don't believe you when you say it happens to you with any kind of regularity". People insult you (NOT the Catholic Church) on a regular basis for your beliefs OUTSIDE the internet? Nah, not buying it.

You have a nice day too

Call Me Jimmy · 31-05-2014 11:18AM

Like most teenagers it was a big deal when I was in my teens to question all that stuff and try and rip it apart. Then it just got boring because it was so obvious, ie. no point in ever talking about it again.

Then I remembered the attempted sexual repression of a whole nation and the effects of that that still linger in the collective consciousness. I would say that seemed to be a social evolutionary phase for most of humanity but the people involved in the organisation are attempting to keep it going when we are past it.

In reality I don't care if someone is a member or practicing because we all make mistakes.

But as I imagine my teenage-self would say: They can Cath-o-lic my BALLZ

Pawn · 31-05-2014 11:19AM

Legs.Eleven wrote: »

Nah, it's more a case of, "I don't believe you when you say it happens to you with any kind of regularity". People insult you on a regular basis for your beliefs OUTSIDE the internet? Nah, not buying it.

You have a nice day too

It does not happen to me, because I couldn't give a flying toss about anyone's imaginary friends, gods, angles, etc. but I hear/read this quite often.

Even on boards.ie if you say you're Muslim you get a number of supporters jumping out of nowhere in no time. Say you're a Catholic - they make you a paedophile. I simply see the difference but honestly I will not be wasting my time debating about it this morning.

Have a nice day

Coffee time.

Legs.Eleven · 31-05-2014 11:20AM

Pawn wrote: »

It does not happen to me, because I couldn't give a flying toss about anyone's imaginary friends, gods, angles, etc. but I hear/read this quite often.

Even on boards.ie if you say you're Muslim you get a number of supporters jumping out of nowhere in no time. Say you're a Catholic - they make you a paedophile. I simply see the difference but honestly I will not be wasting my time debating about it this morning.

Have a nice day
Coffee time.

I did say repeatedly "OUTSIDE the internet".

Pawn · 31-05-2014 11:21AM

Legs.Eleven wrote: »

I did say repeatedly "OUTSIDE the internet".

I did hear you. Gave a wrong example, my fault.

catallus · 31-05-2014 11:23AM

Czarcasm wrote: »

That[...] But when they're online, there's a disconnect from reality and some people use the unregulated space as a vehicle for their hatred.[...]

Disconnect from reality is precisely it.

The circle-jerk mentality which allows unlearned keyboard warriors to spout bile is self-propagating and re-enforces the lack of knowledge of the cultures and philosophies of the last 10'000 years; so when they are faced with human nature at its most despicable they lash out, seeking to blame religion for the woeful things people do to each other, when the precise opposite is the case.

mezuzaj · 31-05-2014 11:26AM

catallus wrote: »

Disconnect from reality is precisely it.

The circle-jerk mentality which allows unlearned keyboard warriors to spout bile is self-propagating and re-enforces the lack of knowledge of the cultures and philosophies of the last 10'000 years; so when they are faced with human nature at its most despicable they lash out, seeking to blame religion for the woeful things people do to each other, when the precise opposite is the case.

Exactly, Look at Spain in the late 30's.. Look what social hatred to a particular group of people lead to? Covent's of cloister nuns burnt to death, and priest shot just because they were priests.

The problem with Boards.ie is that we don't know who we are debating with? What purpose does a thread like this have?

crockholm · 31-05-2014 11:37AM

Legs.Eleven wrote: »

Oh yeah? Funny how I never encounter it at all outside the internet. Strange.

Were there not parcel bombs sent to the director of a catholic school in your adopted country recently? Graffitti and (I Think) iconoclasism on some Lovely old Cathedrals too.

Where were you on the 24th of may 2014, hmmmmmm?

Czarcasm · 31-05-2014 11:41AM

Pawn wrote: »

It does not happen to me, because I couldn't give a flying toss about anyone's imaginary friends, gods, angles, etc. but I hear/read this quite often.

Even on boards.ie if you say you're Muslim you get a number of supporters jumping out of nowhere in no time. Say you're a Catholic - they make you a paedophile. I simply see the difference but honestly I will not be wasting my time debating about it this morning.

Have a nice day
Coffee time.

I don't think that's a fair assessment at all. People aren't criticized for believing, they're criticized for trying to impose their beliefs on other people who don't share their beliefs. That's the height of ignorance IMO.

I've never personally been insulted by anyone here for being Roman Catholic, and I'm a regular contributor in the A+A forum, but there's a handful of posters who go into the A+A forum and I honestly don't know why the Moderators allow it, but they constantly derail discussions, insult other posters for their lack of belief, and then claim they're being persecuted for their beliefs if anyone says boo to them. People aren't criticizing them for their beliefs, they're criticizing them because they're behaving like assholes.

With regard to the difference between treatment of Muslims and Catholics on Boards, I don't know if you remember there was a thread in the Feedback forum a while back where a Moderator of Islam was hauled over the coals for being seen to be promoting domestic violence. The worst was ever put to me was have I stopped having sex with goats, something like that.

You build churches and temples and you do all sorts of good in the world, but ya shag ONE sheep... :pac:

No, honestly Pawn, you should learn to differentiate between genuinely held belief, and when someone is just being insulting for the sake of being insulting. Just like the vacuuous mouthpieces that troll the A+A forum, eventually someone always bites.

Lambofdave · 31-05-2014 11:48AM

Catholic bashing or Roman Catholic bashing?

1. Is the Church of Ireland Protestant or Catholic?
It is both Protestant and Catholic. For this reason it is incorrect to refer to members of the Church of Ireland as ‘non–Catholic’.
The terms Protestant and Catholic are not really opposites.
There are Catholics who accept the universal jurisdiction of the Pope, the Bishop of Rome. Often in consequence they are called Roman Catholics. But there are other Catholics who do not accept the Pope’s jurisdiction or certain doctrines of the Roman Catholic Church. Some are called Protestant or Reformed Catholics. Among them are members of the Church of Ireland and the other Churches of the Anglican Communion.

Delirium · 31-05-2014 11:53AM

mezuzaj wrote: »

There are over 100,000 kids today in Russia in orphanages, many who don't have proper treatment. Go to Belarus... See how they live.

People are great for Cherry picking things from 70 years ago, at a time when we didn't have social welfare. The Church is damned if it does or damned if it doesn't.

Those were the social realities of the day. Not just in Catholic Ireland but also Protestant England.... What do people think happened to unmarried mothers in England in the 40's..

Child mortality was high in Ireland 70 years ago.. not just in catholic institutions but in society at large.

What some Catholics did was not right, but you have to judge historical acts in historical context.

I really doubt any of those mothers sent to those places enjoyed their time there. They essentially were pressed into slave labour for 2-3 years and their children sold off for adoption. The point was that they would most likely disagree with the suggestion that the world had gotten worse as less people allowed religious institutions hold such control over a populace.

I was countering the suggestion that "less religion is bad" by highlighting that not everyones experience would agree. It wasn't meant to be read as a "religion is bad" statement.

anto9 · 31-05-2014 11:56AM

weldoninhio wrote: »

Anyone who believes in a higher being in this day and age deserves ridicule. Be they Catholic, Islamic, Protestant. It's outdated, and ridiculous. The hypocrisy of these organisations, all of them, is pathetic.

There is a higher being ,otherwise how did you come into this world ? He/she /it is not Catholic though .lol:D

Grayson · 31-05-2014 12:02PM

Czarcasm wrote: »

That could easily be turned on it's head though to say that anyone who believes they have a right to ridicule other people, deserves to be ridiculed. Belief in a higher power is hardly outdated either when there are still more people who believe, than people who don't. And as for the whole hypocrisy thing, well, everyone's a hypocrite in one way or another when they judge other people, yet think they themselves should not be judged.

As for the topic at hand, I don't think catholic bashing is as cool as it used to be any more. A couple of years ago it was cool to label all Catholics a bunch of kiddy-fiddling pricks, not so much nowadays, as people are beginning to realize that it gets them nowhere. You might as well be pissing into the wind for all it's worth.

As Legs mentioned earlier, it doesn't really happen so much offline because people are more civil to each other. But when they're online, there's a disconnect from reality and some people use the unregulated space as a vehicle for their hatred.

I've seen and been involved in some great discussions about criticism of religion here on Boards alone, but there's always going to be the extremists that ruin the discussion for everyone, because they shout the loudest, and they shout the longest. There are fundamentalist extremists on both sides - those who hate non-believers, and those who hate believers, with neither side too bothered about realizing they're the very people perpetuating hatred, rather than fostering tolerance and understanding among people, regardless of their beliefs, or indeed lack thereof.

I hate to sound cliche but, well, haters gonna hate, regardless of the topic being discussed, and it's the hate is irrational, rather than the belief or lack thereof, because what progress has hate ever achieved for people who lament the lack of progress in society?

there's a comedian called Jim Jeffries. He's rude, nasty and just obnoxious. He does have a great line in his show though. he says "I Started with saying lesbians should be beaten. I then killed an arab but the point that half the audience decided to become offended was when i said god didn't exist"

See, there's absolutely no logical reason to believe in the catholic religion unless you were brainwashed as a child. If you'd never heard of religion and had all the religions laid out in front of you, you'd think they were all crazy.

Catholicism is as bat **** crazy as they come. People believe that god got offended by humans, after they did exactly what he designed us to do, and so kinda condemned us to hell. So he sent his son (who's actually him) to die for us so we could get into heaven. Meanwhile if we don't get a splash of magical water on us when we're born, and eat this bread, which is actually magical flesh, we're fcuked.

How am I supposed to take that seriously?

People are allowed have whatever belief they want, but when those believes are crazy and when they impinge on the rights of others, I'll call it out.

anto9 · 31-05-2014 12:06PM

The Catholic Church is the Church of the Devil .Prove me wrong .I fail to understand why any Irish person would have any more to do with such evil .ie Only lately a mass grave of infants was uncover in Tume .It was the Nuns who did it .

Pawn · 31-05-2014 12:07PM

Czarcasm wrote: »

That's the height of ignorance IMO.

Ah sure :rolleyes:

Threats, killing women for bringing "shame" on family or chopping heads off is simply "a different culture" right?

We haven't seen a lot of bashing that apart from random TV news, have we? But the news are full of priests molesting children 40 years ago.

Now, Nodin, where is Nodin?

Prove me wrong, make my day

mezuzaj · 31-05-2014 12:11PM

SW wrote: »

I really doubt any of those mothers sent to those places enjoyed their time there. They essentially were pressed into slave labour for 2-3 years and their children sold off for adoption. The point was that they would most likely disagree with the suggestion that the world had gotten worse as less people allowed religious institutions hold such control over a populace.

I was countering the suggestion that "less religion is bad" by highlighting that not everyones experience would agree. It wasn't meant to be read as a "religion is bad" statement.

Of course they didn't enjoy it.... The whole point if it in the day was to set an example. Society didn't want unmarried mothers (Not just catholic society in Ireland but also Protestant in England or Germany...). Those are the historical realities of the day.

There was no unmarried mothers allowance and free social housing. So unless the family was going to help.. there was no other choice but to go into an institution. There was no other voice in society lobbying for unmarried mothers.

Society and its views have changed, But you can't pick some facts from history and judge them in isolation. There was a whole string of problems 70 years ago.. Mental health for example.

Look at ordinary families in the 40's 50's.. Many families lost 1 or 2 babies.. If you put together 100 unmarried mothers who are expecting is a given that 6 to 10% of their children won't survive.. Because that was the reality of the day.

You need to read the panoramic view of history of the period and put everything in context..

Again I stress that is not just justify the wrong actions of SOME catholics. But that was the way society was and that was the period before advances in medicine and social justice.

Shakespeare's Sister · 31-05-2014 12:15PM

I'm not a practising catholic, not even much of a believer, but I think it's very unfair to refer to all priests as paedophiles.

Muise... · 31-05-2014 12:17PM

Pawn wrote: »

Ah sure :rolleyes:

Threats, killing women for bringing "shame" on family or chopping heads off is simply "a different culture" right?

We haven't seen a lot of bashing that apart from random TV news, have we? But the news are full of priests molesting children 40 years ago.

Now, Nodin, where is Nodin? Prove me wrong, make my day

I would like to see this Venn diagram in which the overlap is occupied by people who somehow manage to tolerate barbarity in another culture yet decry it in their own. I think you're mashing two misread attitudes together as if they come from the same individuals in the same discussions. It's clumsy and rabbleish.

Are you sure you want to take on Nodin with that fuzzy head on you? Not to mention the hangover...

mezuzaj · 31-05-2014 12:19PM

Magaggie wrote: »

I'm not a practising catholic, not even much of a believer, but I think it's very unfair to refer to all priests as paedophiles.

Are you surprised.. Its boards.ie the land of generalisations.

Czarcasm · 31-05-2014 12:19PM

Pawn wrote: »

Ah sure :rolleyes:

Threats, killing women for bringing "shame" on family or chopping heads off is simply "a different culture" right?

We haven't seen a lot of bashing that apart from random TV news, have we? But the news are full of priests molesting children 40 years ago.

Now, Nodin, where is Nodin? Prove me wrong, make my day

Well, the reason we haven't seen so much criticism of Islam as much as Roman Catholicism is simply because Islam hasn't had nearly as much of an influence in Irish society as Roman Catholicism, but you only have to look at neighboring countries like Britain to see how Islam has had much more of an influence on British society.

We're actually a far more passive society here in terms of expressing our dislike of religion, whereas in Britain, they're far more vocal about religion, and their objection to it's influence in society and social policy.

anto9 · 31-05-2014 12:20PM

Magaggie wrote: »

I'm not a practising catholic, not even much of a believer, but I think it's very unfair to refer to all priests as paedophiles.

Thats true ,most are just **** .The priest who befriended our family ,molested my sisters though .So i have a lot of hatred for the Catholic Church .

Pawn · 31-05-2014 12:21PM

Muise... wrote: »

I think you're...

Thank you for your opinion. And have a nice day

FTA69 · 31-05-2014 12:22PM

Ailani Slow Sunburn wrote: »

An awful lot of what I read being being aggrieved about, no I wouldn't agree with it as I see it as trolling.

Big generalisations are one if the main things people like to latch onto. Nobody is trying to deny that a small number of people in the Catholic Church did terrible things (as did many outside the church also)

The thing with the abuse in Ireland though is that it was institutionalised. It wasn't just a few bad apples, rather a whole rotten barrel. Various bishops and cardinals actively covered up paedophile priests and moved them around to different parishes where they were able to abuse even more people. Even until the 1990s they tried to deny it all and were still covering it up. Not to mention the absolute abuse they doled out in their system of industrial schools and Magdalene Laundries.

Aside from the above, the Church has been to the fore in opposing any sort of progression in Irish society. They were at the forefront in campaigning against divorce, against gay rights, against the Mother and Child scheme, against abortion etc etc. For years they were a stifling influence on Irish society, even causing writers to be exiled and other people of "suspicious views" to be blackballed. I can think we can all safely agree it's about time the country moved on from that sort of crap.

31-05-2014 12:22PM

Grayson wrote: »

How am I supposed to take that seriously?

People are allowed have whatever belief they want, but when those believes are crazy and when they impinge on the rights of others, I'll call it out.

On the other hand, I would say you are the crazy one for refusing to take such important things seriously.

Catholic-bashing.

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