Different reactions to domestic violence

tritium · 26-05-2014 08:11PM

dundalkfc10 wrote: »

Or he could have just left her!

Yes, yes its really that easy. Walk out on her! Sure walk out on your relationship with your kids while you're at it.

People used to say the same about battered women until they copped on

Czarcasm · 26-05-2014 08:36PM

Wishiwasa Littlebitaller wrote: »

It's only a natural reaction because society have been brainwashed to see men one way and women another. Same reason that egalitarianism falls 'flat on it's arse', as we are taught that equality is just an issue for women to strive for and not something men.

All rubbish of course.

Aren't men just as much a part of society as women? Who's brainwashing who exactly? Are you trying to claim men are treated by society as inferior to women? You're right - that is complete rubbish.

It should be a major goal of our education system to teach children egalitarianism. Then maybe one day, should they see someone (or some family member) getting mentally and physcially abused, thier brain won't see it as some 'freaky shit' and so just laugh at it instead of trying to help and who knows, maybe one day also, if the essence of egalitarianism is instilled into our children at a young age and they are brought up to see all humans as being equal in fundamental worth and social status, they might even be just as disgusted to see a man getting abused, as they would be to see a woman. One can only hope.

You don't think children are taught in school from an early age to respect each other? That still doesn't stop some children organising fights on social media that take place with an audience in the local park? Rather than try and stop it, they're there to record it on their smartphones.

Your egalitarian idealism isn't worth jack shìt in the real world tbh.

Pumpkinseeds · 26-05-2014 09:02PM

ALiasEX wrote: »

No worries, it would have been him that got the beating.

Definitely not in that instance.

Wishiwasa Littlebitaller · 26-05-2014 09:45PM

Czarcasm wrote: »

Aren't men just as much a part of society as women? Who's brainwashing who exactly? Are you trying to claim men are treated by society as inferior to women? You're right - that is complete rubbish.

Ah, here we go again. Just like you did on the last thread, twisting words around to make yourself appear as if you're saying something far more cleverer than you actually are.

It sounds good to finish that paragraph the way you did, but makes zero grammatical sense.

'You're right - that is complete rubbish'.

You see, the word 'that' in your sentence, is referring to something which you said, not I and so it would be impossible for me to be "right", about something you said, now would it.

But, at least you're not calling me names this time, so we're making some progress at least.

You don't think children are taught in school from an early age to respect each other?

Are you kidding me?

Girls are taught that they should fear boys and boys are taught that they should respect girls. Hell, one of the first things I remember learning at school was:

Girls are made from Sugar & Spice and all things nice.

Boys are made from nails, snails and puppy dog tails.

Your egalitarian idealism isn't worth jack shìt in the real world tbh.

I know. The point is: it should be.

Czarcasm · 26-05-2014 10:15PM

Wishiwasa Littlebitaller wrote: »

Ah, here we go again. Just like you did on the last thread, twisting words around to make yourself appear as if you're saying something far more cleverer than you actually are.

It sounds good to finish that paragraph the way you did, but makes zero grammatical sense.

'You're right - that is complete rubbish'.

You see, the word 'that' in your sentence, is referring to something which you said, not I and so it would be impossible for me to be "right", about something you said, now would it.

But, at least you're not calling me names this time, so we're making some progress at least.

We're discussing domestic violence, and you're more concerned with my grammar?

Domestic violence, grammar, domestic violence, grammar...

Easy see where your priorities lie.

Are you kidding me?

Girls are taught that they should fear boys and boys are taught that they should respect girls. Hell, one of the first things I remember learning at school was:

You have to be taking the piss surely? You're using a Victorian nursery rhyme to make a social commentary on modern society?

Again, we're talking about domestic violence here, not some nursery rhyme you learned when you attended school over 100 years ago. If you want to talk about how women were viewed in society 100 years ago, it was legal for a man to rape his wife.

I know. The point is: it should be.

Your idea of egalitarianism seems to be biased towards men. How very "egalitarian" of you.

Shakespeare's Sister · 26-05-2014 10:22PM

dundalkfc10 wrote: »

Or he could have just left her!

Sure, shift the responsibility over to him!
What about the kids needing their father?

Wishiwasa Littlebitaller · 26-05-2014 10:40PM

Czarcasm wrote: »

We're discussing domestic violence, and you're more concerned with my grammar?

Oh give the sanctimony a rest.

What you said made no sense. Kinda hard to pretend it did.

You have to be taking the piss surely? You're using a Victorian nursery rhyme to make a social commentary on modern society?

I'm no spring chicken, it's true - but I assure you I went to school in the 20th century, not the 19th.

Again, we're talking about domestic violence here, not some nursery rhyme you learned when you attended school over 100 years ago.

See this is your tactic on threads Czarcasm. You constantly try and suggest one comment a person makes, is really about something else, just so you can make them look the way you wish they did. We were NOT specifically talking about domestic violence when I mentioned that rhyme. I brought up that nursery rhyme as you implied that children were taught in school from an early age to "respect" each other, REMEMBER. My mentioning it was purely in effort to negate THAT point and that point alone.

If you want to talk about how women were viewed in society 100 years ago, it was legal for a man to rape his wife.

Yawn. I mention a nursery rhyme to negate your nonsense opinion and because that rhyme was written hundreds of years ago, this must of course mean that I want to discuss domestic violence from that period. I mean seriously. Quit trying to point score. It's boring.

Your idea of egalitarianism seems to be biased towards men. How very "egalitarian" of you.

My idea of egalitarianism is precisely what I said it was:

Wishiwasa Littlebitaller wrote: »

.. if the essence of egalitarianism is instilled into our children at a young age and they are brought up to see all humans as being equal in fundamental worth and social status, they might even be just as disgusted to see a man getting abused, as they would be to see a woman.

You see, nothing whatsoever that would suggest a bias towards men.

Want to make anything else up?

kowloon · 26-05-2014 10:47PM

Chattastrophe! wrote: »

There's a thing called (I think) the bystander effect, basically if no one else is doing anything, people are more likely to keep their heads down and walk on by whatever's happening.

Reminds me of this video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OSsPfbup0ac

Czarcasm · 26-05-2014 10:56PM

Wishiwasa Littlebitaller wrote: »

Oh give the sanctimony a rest.

Quite.

Want to make anything else up?

The difference between us is that I wasn't making it up as I went along, trying to 'point score' as you put it.

I wanted to talk about domestic violence, you wanted to talk about nursery rhymes and grammar.

Neyite · 26-05-2014 11:00PM

A woman will attempt to leave an abusive relationship on average 7 times before she finally manages to leave for good. I imagine that for men, its a lot more, given that there would be a very real fear that the woman would get custody of the children, and therefore the family home, and that the abuser will just take out their wrath on his children if he is not there to take it and therefore protect them.

Its complex and disingenuous to say 'just leave'. Abusers of both genders use manipulation, coercion, blackmail, threats to build a prison of fear for their victims. Usually the victims are isolated from friends and family, financially and emotionally abused until they are almost brainwashed, such is the fear.

And they know that the most dangerous time in any abusive relationship is just before or during your attempts to leave. That is why most victims flee with only what they can carry and dont dare to go back.

The stereotype of abuse needs to be smashed - it is genderless. It happens in male-female, and same sex relationships. It happens to our elderly by their cruel child, to our children by their parents or guardians. It is not about beatings - in fact, thats the more honest type of abuse - thats the one people can see and you have 'proof' for want of a better word, that you are a victim. Emotional abuse, Financial abuse, Gaslighting, Sexual abuse, are all severe forms of control that are not visible to the outside. Those scar too. And take longer to heal than a broken nose or black eye. The secrecy empowers the abuser. The longer the victim feels ashamed the longer their abuser holds the power to continue to do what they do.

Here is a handy checklist.

General warning signs of domestic abuse
People who are being abused may:
Seem afraid or anxious to please their partner

Go along with everything their partner says and does

Check in often with their partner to report where they are and what they’re doing

Receive frequent, harassing phone calls from their partner

Talk about their partner’s temper, jealousy, or possessiveness

Warning signs of physical violence
People who are being physically abused may:
Have frequent injuries, with the excuse of “accidents”

Frequently miss work, school, or social occasions, without explanation

Dress in clothing designed to hide bruises or scars (e.g. wearing long sleeves in the summer or sunglasses indoors)

Warning signs of isolation

People who are being isolated by their abuser may:
Be restricted from seeing family and friends

Rarely go out in public without their partner

Have limited access to money, credit cards, or the car

The psychological warning signs of abuse
People who are being abused may:
Have very low self-esteem, even if they used to be confident

Show major personality changes (e.g. an outgoing person becomes withdrawn)

Be depressed, anxious, or suicidal

Abusers don't change. The only way to make the abuse stop is to leave.

Pat Custard · 26-05-2014 11:03PM

dundalkfc10 wrote: »

Or he could have just left her!

and leave her with the house that he probably paid for??

would you say that if the roles were reversed?? she should just leave him if he was battering her?

Violence from both sides should be equally punished. male on male, male on female, female on male or female on female.

It shouldn't be a case of just leave her.

She should have been punished.

Pwindedd · 26-05-2014 11:03PM

Anyway back to the video. I watched it 3 times and noticed that the crowd was a different crowd, it was obviously done on different days or different times.

If the women that stepped in, had been witness to the "other" couple would they have still stepped in. It's not a huge crowd. Have a go heroes maybe few and far between. Maybe the question is - why do some people have the instinct to put themselves at possible risk for a stranger, or why don't more of us?

I would have been nervous to interfere in either situation. Both are equally unpleasant to watch. The woman could easily turn her anger on me, as could the man. I could make the situation worse for either of the couple. It's a toughie. But agreed - we need more people to make abusers aware that we don't find violence acceptable - either in public or behind closed doors.

diveout · 26-05-2014 11:11PM

Neyite wrote: »

Abusers don't change. The only way to make the abuse stop is to leave.

I think this is really a dodgy claim because if abusers believe this they won't seek help to change. I believe the majority can.

Czarcasm · 26-05-2014 11:14PM

Neyite wrote: »

Abusers don't change. The only way to make the abuse stop is to leave.

Great post Neyite, but the last part - I just wanted to point out that people who engage in domestic violence can, and in some cases do change their behaviour, and in other cases, just leaving doesn't stop the abuse, seeking help is the most effective way to stop the abuse.

Often when the victim leaves, their abuser can still terrorise them, and they should be encouraged to make a report to the authorities rather than just keep running away and always living in fear.

Neyite · 26-05-2014 11:19PM

diveout wrote: »

I think this is really a dodgy claim because if abusers believe this they won't seek help to change. I believe the majority can.

Pretty much every expert in the field of Domestic Abuse would disagree with you - its their claim, not mine. Abusers rarely, if ever, change, and the ones that genuinely do, only do so after years and years of therapy and hard work.

Have you links to the success rates of the programs for abusers that support your assertion that the majority change?

Neyite · 26-05-2014 11:31PM

Czarcasm wrote: »

Great post Neyite, but the last part - I just wanted to point out that people who engage in domestic violence can, and in some cases do change their behaviour, and in other cases, just leaving doesn't stop the abuse, seeking help is the most effective way to stop the abuse.

Often when the victim leaves, their abuser can still terrorise them, and they should be encouraged to make a report to the authorities rather than just keep running away and always living in fear.

Czarcasm, I attended DA counselling when my ex tried to strangle me. I went on to continue that counselling, outside of the refuge where I initally attended. I filed a Garda report of all the incidences of violence. I read lots and lots of books to try to understand how it happened, all written by experts and psychologists who have worked for years in the field - with abusers and victims. And all of those , without exception, have said that it is rare for an abuser to change.

And I never said not to seek help or that you never stop running. Of course you should.

You go to the authorities and Womens Aid/ Amen and let them help you - leaving a paper trail of logging the abuse is often the only way you can protect yourself and any children.

Kiwi in IE · 26-05-2014 11:55PM

Links234 wrote: »

Another thing to keep in mind with the "Why don't they just leave?" argument, older generations have very funny attitudes towards married couples splitting up, and by "funny" I mean horrible. Ireland was a very catholic country where divorce wasn't a reality until quite recently, and 'till death do you part was really the only way to leave a marriage.

My father used to beat the **** out of both my mum and me when I was a kid. Long story short, he moved out after a certain incident, and although they didn't get divorced, we had neighbors who didn't speak to us any more because of it. Didn't matter if he was the kind of bastard who sent a kid to hospital with broken ribs, "for better or worse" meant that, no matter how much worse. I'll never understand the mentality of these neighbors, but after my dad moved out, my mum got the stink eye from them constantly and they'd never spoken to her since. I just can't wrap my head around it, but to some people in this country, leaving a marriage is anathema. That's probably got something to do with why people just don't leave.

This post made me really angry! What the f*ck is wrong with people that would make them ostracise and isolate the victims of violence for ending the violent relationship.

It is a shame that the hell these types tend to believe in dosn't exist, because it would be nice to think they will burn in it!

Czarcasm · 26-05-2014 11:57PM

Neyite wrote: »

Czarcasm, I attended DA counselling when my ex tried to strangle me. I went on to continue that counselling, outside of the refuge where I initally attended. I filed a Garda report of all the incidences of violence. I read lots and lots of books to try to understand how it happened, all written by experts and psychologists who have worked for years in the field - with abusers and victims. And all of those , without exception, have said that it is rare for an abuser to change.

That's not what you said originally Neyite which is why I picked up on it, because you said abusers never change, which is quite a definite statement as opposed to it's rare for an abuser to change. It's rare, but it does happen, which means it can happen.

And I never said not to seek help or that you never stop running. Of course you should. You go to the authorities and Womens Aid/ Amen and let them help you - leaving a paper trail of logging the abuse is often the only way you can protect yourself and any children.

Honestly Neyite I'm not being a picky fcuk just for the sake of it, but you said the only solution was to leave. You never mentioned options like relationship counselling or individual therapy, just leave. I was only making the point that just leaving doesn't always solve everything either.

diveout · 27-05-2014 07:02AM

Neyite wrote: »

Pretty much every expert in the field of Domestic Abuse would disagree with you - its their claim, not mine. Abusers rarely, if ever, change, and the ones that genuinely do, only do so after years and years of therapy and hard work.

Have you links to the success rates of the programs for abusers that support your assertion that the majority change?

I said the majority can change, not that they do change. If all the professionals believe they can't change why are their rehabilitation and intervention programmes? What about the huge industry that is anger management? Do you know that some of the current main offenders of DV in the US now are returned soldiers with PTSD?

And if you listen to this radio programme "A Woman's Right to Be Evil" it talks about the lack of rehabilitative services for female violent offenders whereas it is in place for the men. http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio3/freethinking/2009/events/event09.shtml

If it was so cut and dried that it didn't work, why are so many professionals involved in rehabilitative services, therapy and anger management?

And it obviously would depend on the nature of the abuse, [is it due to mental illness, susbtance abuse...alcohol... trauma...] but I don't believe that it has to be a personal destiny and that abusers should feel they can change otherwise is there any point in even trying?

That doesn't mean someone should stick around while the abuser is working on it though.

Neyite · 27-05-2014 09:28AM

Czarcasm wrote: »

That's not what you said originally Neyite which is why I picked up on it, because you said abusers never change, which is quite a definite statement as opposed to it's rare for an abuser to change. It's rare, but it does happen, which means it can happen.

Honestly Neyite I'm not being a picky fcuk just for the sake of it, but you said the only solution was to leave. You never mentioned options like relationship counselling or individual therapy, just leave. I was only making the point that just leaving doesn't always solve everything either.

Relationship counselling is a BAD idea in a DA relationship. That is never offered as a potential solution, and if you were familiar with DA dynamics, you'd see why the professionals warn against it. Individual therapy can help, but requires a lot of work on the person undergoing the therapy, and a genuine willingness to change. Oh, and also therapy actually BEING there in the first place. Which in this country is practically non-existent. Why do I say they never change? because by far that is usually the case. An abused partner clings on to the hope that they can change. In doing so, they remain in the relationship, exposing themselves and vunerable children to more and more violence and dysfunction, all the while giving the abuser no reason to change. If they leave, THEN that abuser might see what they have lost and work towards changing, but meanwhile their family is safe from harm.

diveout wrote: »

I said the majority can change, not that they do change. If all the professionals believe they can't change why are their rehabilitation and intervention programmes? What about the huge industry that is anger management? Do you know that some of the current main offenders of DV in the US now are returned soldiers with PTSD?

And if you listen to this radio programme "A Woman's Right to Be Evil" it talks about the lack of rehabilitative services for female violent offenders whereas it is in place for the men. http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio3/freethinking/2009/events/event09.shtml

If it was so cut and dried that it didn't work, why are so many professionals involved in rehabilitative services, therapy and anger management?

And it obviously would depend on the nature of the abuse, [is it due to mental illness, susbtance abuse...alcohol... trauma...] but I don't believe that it has to be a personal destiny and that abusers should feel they can change otherwise is there any point in even trying?

That doesn't mean someone should stick around while the abuser is working on it though.

Im at work so will have a listen to that when I get home.

We should at least try to help. They say that rehabilitation for sex offenders has an abysmally low success rate but you have to try, dont you? because for the 50 that may be time-wasters and only there as part of a sentencing requirement, there may be one person who is genuine, who really wants to change. I have a book at home that might have stats for successes. It was written by Lundy Bancroft and he worked with abusers in therapy for many years. Its a very interesting book and explains the psychology of an abuser far better than I ever could.

Are they 'reasons' or excuses though? If there are reasons, such as mental health issues or substance abuse, then those need to be worked on before or in paralell with intervention programmes and be completed and definite changes made before a relationship can reconcile.

Anger management is a different dynamic from Domestic abuse though. As is anger issues from mental health. Someone with anger issues take it out on everyone. Their boss, their colleagues, on random strangers, through road rage, and in the home. The Domestic Abuser though is a different fish - they only take their anger out on their partner and family, even if the apparent source is entirely unrelated to family life. They are the pillar of the community outside of that.

Your last sentence is the key to what I'm trying to say : That doesn't mean someone should stick around while the abuser is working on it though- Absolutely. I fully agree with this and its what I was trying to say. I would always tell someone that they cant change. Because if I said that some can change, then the victim might stay put hoping their abuser is one of the ones that might. And if harm comes to them as a result, I'd never forgive myself.

My ex might have changed. Or he could be married now and battering seven shades of sh!te out of his wife and terrifying his children if he has any. I dunno. But I wasnt prepared to live in fear like that for the 5 or 6 years that it might have taken for him to get sorted. Or bring children into a home where things get smashed, where holes get punched in walls, where screaming matches, verbal abuse and walking around on eggshells several times a week. I have never regretted leaving. But I do regret that I stayed that long.

beyondbelief67 · 27-05-2014 09:48AM

I can't imagine relationship counselling ever working in a DV situation for a number of reasons as the person who is being abused will be to scared to say what is happening for fear of what will happen when they get home, and then if they don't say anything they will be in for trouble when they get home too for not trying to make it work or making the other person look stupid etc
So no can't see that being offered or working at all.

Czarcasm · 27-05-2014 10:18AM

beyondbelief67 wrote: »

I can't imagine relationship counselling ever working in a DV situation for a number of reasons as the person who is being abused will be to scared to say what is happening for fear of what will happen when they get home, and then if they don't say anything they will be in for trouble when they get home too for not trying to make it work or making the other person look stupid etc
So no can't see that being offered or working at all.

It's completely dependent on the dynamics of the relationship beyond belief, and dependent on the level of domestic violence involved. Someone being throttled and beaten on a regular basis? No, obviously relationship counselling wouldn't be the first recommendation, but I completely agree with Neyite's post above once I understood where she was coming from, and here's where I'm coming from -

Czarcasm wrote: »

Ah no punnet, it's not really about experience or anything (actually I'm drunk as a skunk right now after downing a bottle of Baileys so I should be in my leaba) but for me even it's not about stats or shìte, there WAS a recent thread on here alright about women victims of domestic violence and I didn't contribute, but rather I listened (or read even) the stories of these women, and there was no fcukaboutery in the thread and people were respectful of these women's stories, and the courage it took for these women to be able to get out of the situations they were in first of all, and then for these women to support each other and tell their stories.

Such a thing doesn't really exist for men, but that's not the fault of campaigns like this, and when the issuo of male on female violence is promoted as such, ok, the campaign might be perceived as slightly misguided, but to turn it into an equality issue, as in "well it happens to men too!", "not ALL men do this", it's completely, completely missing the point.

Right, I'll put this out there, I've posted before how my wife has suffered from depression, and she would've been violent towards me to the point where I remember having to throw a knife block out over the balcony of our apartment into the river below in case she did either of us an injury, she was already fond of using her fists and scratching my face to the point where I used go into work and I'd laugh off work colleagues comments and say we'd gotten a cat or some bullshìt.

But I would never once raise a hand to my wife, I knew I was bigger and I sure as hell was stronger, and that's why when I see some of these "Well if a woman hits me I'm gonna hit back" type posts, it disgusts me tbh. Nothing to do with the way I was raised, my old man used use me for a punching bag daily from about the age of 4 - 16 when I left home, and my mother used chase me round the house with a bread knife, I still wouldn't fight back, well, I fought back against my old man once and one time I kicked the knife out of my mother's hand, cut her hand and felt guilty for weeks afterwards, but never would I raise my hand against someone I knew was physically weaker than me, but the psychological shìt? Well, that's a real mind fcuk altogether, and that's the lasting damage that can be inflicted on a person long after the physical scars have healed.

You won't really find those stories in statistics, I or my wife won't appear on any fancy graphs, posters, or statistics, and that's why statistics, for me at least, aren't worth a bucket of shìt, because they never give a full and true account of the bigger picture or what's really going on in a person's life. They'll give a representative picture of one particular issue depending on the agenda being pushed, but if male victims of violence want representation, then it's a separate issue to encourage men to seek help, but to take issue with women's organisations campaigning about the issue and say "equality, equality", that, to me at least, is utter bullshìt.

Campaign for domestic violence against men as a separate issue, but don't dismiss women's groups for campaigning against the issue, instead encourage men to speak up, and report the issue, then those who are interested in stats can all get all gooby-eyed about stats, and those who give a shìt about people can get on with the job of helping people, regardless of their gender.

Domestic violence, the issue shouldn't be about "well it happens to men too", and this thread should't have been about that, that's another thread, but hell, that's just my opinion.

That_Girl_ Is_ A_Cowboy · 27-05-2014 10:44AM

I don't think these videos are accurate at all, at all in relation to dosmetic violence. From my experience and understanding those dishing out DV, in public there is a display of niceness and kindness to their partner. It's just an act because in the home and behind closed doors they are different. A DV abuser wouldn't behave like this in public.

That_Girl_ Is_ A_Cowboy · 27-05-2014 11:16AM

Neyite wrote: »

A woman will attempt to leave an abusive relationship on average 7 times before she finally manages to leave for good. I imagine that for men, its a lot more, given that there would be a very real fear that the woman would get custody of the children, and therefore the family home, and that the abuser will just take out their wrath on his children if he is not there to take it and therefore protect them.

Its complex and disingenuous to say 'just leave'. Abusers of both genders use manipulation, coercion, blackmail, threats to build a prison of fear for their victims. Usually the victims are isolated from friends and family, financially and emotionally abused until they are almost brainwashed, such is the fear.

And they know that the most dangerous time in any abusive relationship is just before or during your attempts to leave. That is why most victims flee with only what they can carry and dont dare to go back.

The stereotype of abuse needs to be smashed - it is genderless. It happens in male-female, and same sex relationships. It happens to our elderly by their cruel child, to our children by their parents or guardians. It is not about beatings - in fact, thats the more honest type of abuse - thats the one people can see and you have 'proof' for want of a better word, that you are a victim. Emotional abuse, Financial abuse, Gaslighting, Sexual abuse, are all severe forms of control that are not visible to the outside. Those scar too. And take longer to heal than a broken nose or black eye. The secrecy empowers the abuser. The longer the victim feels ashamed the longer their abuser holds the power to continue to do what they do.

Here is a handy checklist.

Abusers don't change. The only way to make the abuse stop is to leave.

This is such a brillant post. I was going to write that there's other types of abuses but you wrote it much better than me.

There's mental torture which is covert and much worse. Things like lying and deception, the silent treatment and gaslighting.

beyondbelief67 · 27-05-2014 11:28AM

I will probably get a backlash for this but in a way I think mental abuse, belittling the partner and putting them down is in a way worse than physical abuse, the mental scars last far longer than the bruises and cuts from physical and the low self esteem that is left behind can take a life time to recover from even with counselling.

tritium · 27-05-2014 12:08PM

beyondbelief67 wrote: »

I will probably get a backlash for this but in a way I think mental abuse, belittling the partner and putting them down is in a way worse than physical abuse, the mental scars last far longer than the bruises and cuts from physical and the low self esteem that is left behind can take a life time to recover from even with counselling.

^^^^^^
This!

Its one of the reasons I have such an issue with how certain groups try to minimise domestic violence against men. One of the arguments trotted out is men hit harder and so will cause more severe injury. Its the breaking of someone's spirit that's often the real long term injury in domestic violence

--LOS-- · 27-05-2014 01:04PM

Ugh that video definitely puts it in perspective.

But I also have to say that no one ever stepped in to help me when I was being treated like this on the street as a girl either.

And the gardai never did a thing, the person went completely unpunished, I guess nobody cares if you suffered physical and mental abuse for years once you're not dead ¬_¬

Neyite · 27-05-2014 01:40PM

beyondbelief67 wrote: »

I will probably get a backlash for this but in a way I think mental abuse, belittling the partner and putting them down is in a way worse than physical abuse, the mental scars last far longer than the bruises and cuts from physical and the low self esteem that is left behind can take a life time to recover from even with counselling.

Nope. No backlash from me. In my personal experience the non-physical types of abuse are far more damaging to a person, and have much more long-term effects. Bruises and bones heal. Recovering from evil takes more time.

It used to be that the kind of psychological warefare that goes on was dismissed almost, only focusing on the broken bones and black eyes. An abuser would have to damn near kill someone before anyone stepped in to help. Physical assault is the extreme end of the scale, but the groundwork for the damage was long underway by that point.

Another form I frequent has often DV threads - but they dont realise that its DV - they discuss how they are rejected sexually, or pressured into other sexual acts they dont particularly want to do, get pregnant due to sabotaged contraception, having no money and no food for the children while the abuser is flashing the cash around, being spied on, being told what to wear, being interrogated if the bus is late, moving and becoming isolated, with no money, and nowhere to go. But until someone points it out, they just see these things as relationship issues.

A lot of female on male violence is non-physical, so a lot of men dont realise they are in abusive relationships until its too late due to the manipulation and sublety of the abuser.

diveout · 27-05-2014 06:11PM

beyondbelief67 wrote: »

I will probably get a backlash for this but in a way I think mental abuse, belittling the partner and putting them down is in a way worse than physical abuse, the mental scars last far longer than the bruises and cuts from physical and the low self esteem that is left behind can take a life time to recover from even with counselling.

Honestly they are so often wrapped up in bi directional abuse it can be so hard to measure.

Then you have groups who claim using logic in an argument is a form of abuse. There are certain accepted levels of abuse that cross social and cultural divides. I saw a friend of mine absolutely rip into a small child [not physically] to the extent that it made me shake and tremble I was so scared, but for her this is normal parenting and I doubt for a second she even considered it abusive. Was it abusive? I don't know...not sure how you measure it exactly but that is where we are now where I'm never quite sure what someone means unless they give examples. And over and over and over again I see on PI reports of psychological abuse, where it is obvious to me anyway, when you read between the lines, the other party has this sense of entitlement that is not being met and probably FEELS like they are the ones being abused. Not at all cut and dried.

Another example. A spouse calls the cops with scratch marks all over the neck, arms and eyes, and the other spouse gets arrested, but low and behold it was the scratched up spouse who blocked the door to letting the attacker exit the home.

There are spectrums of emotional and physical abuse too, and too often the abuser is in a self pitying victim identification mode they really feel justified in their attack.

The Purveyor of Truth · 09-09-2014 12:05AM

This kind of crap from earlier today doesn't help.

Can you imagine Phil asking the same question of a man in such a lighthearted fashion:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UGK15vnD8YQ

Different reactions to domestic violence

Comments