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Convicted child killer canvassing for sinn fein[Mod warning-First Post]

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Comments

  • #842
    Grayson
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,442 ✭✭✭✭Grayson


    theemigrant wrote: »
    The PIRA's targets were always either enforcers & symbols of british occupation or economic targets aiming to cause harm to the british economy and hence the british war fund.

    like children in warrington. That's a fair target.

    I'll admit the the UK have performed atrocities over the years. They were the first people to gas kurds for example. the same with the US army. They were pretty horrific in Iraq.
    However people signed up for both with the idea that they were going to help and serve. And many did. Just as I'm sure many republicans felt they did too.

    What really pisses me off about some shinners is the way everyone in the IRA was a saint. Every target was valid. The IRA never did a single ****ing thing wrong. yet the entire british army are cnuts.


  • #843
    FTA69
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,252 ✭✭✭FTA69


    bumper234 wrote: »
    If it was shown that the pilot had deliberately targeted children or had blown up a car/building/boat where he knew there were children then yes i would have an issue with that.

    That would be a high percentage of them then I'd imagine. As you know yourself from your military experiences, the "who did what" or "who was where" stuff is very difficult to quantify. There have been plenty of gunship operators, aerial bombers and various other soldiers active in British politics and society across a variety of levels. It's a natural progression at the end of any conflict.

    One thing is certain though, is that the British Army as a whole is culpable for a huge amount of civilian casualties, (as were the IRA for that matter), but yet you have no problem with them engaging in politics afterwards.

    However, Sinn Féin are a total shower of bastards in your eyes for being associated with ex-combatants. That's hypocrisy at its finest mate.


  • #844
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    Grayson wrote: »

    What really pisses me off about some shinners is the way everyone in the IRA was a saint. Every target was valid. The IRA never did a single ****ing thing wrong. yet the entire british army are cnuts.


    I don't know one single person who thinks the killing of children is right or warranted.
    The IRA and Gerry Adams have repeatedly said that various things were wrong.
    Most republicans I know are glad that the IRA have disbanded.

    Less of the hysterics please.


  • #845
    FTA69
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,252 ✭✭✭FTA69


    Grayson wrote: »
    What really pisses me off about some shinners is the way everyone in the IRA was a saint. Every target was valid. The IRA never did a single ****ing thing wrong. yet the entire british army are cnuts.

    Nothing is as black and white and anyone who says the situation is that straightforward is a fool. I've never heard an IRA member try and say that everything they did was correct or that every Brit is a subhuman drone.

    At the same time, taking the individual element out of it; Republicans would argue that the British occupation of Ireland was and is morally wrong and that can't be placed on an equivalence with those who would attempt to fight that. The same way I wouldn't put the Viet Cong on the same level as American invaders.


  • #846
    Kevhog1988
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,584 ✭✭✭Kevhog1988


    Grayson wrote: »
    like children in warrington. That's a fair target.

    I'll admit the the UK have performed atrocities over the years. They were the first people to gas kurds for example. the same with the US army. They were pretty horrific in Iraq.
    However people signed up for both with the idea that they were going to help and serve. And many did. Just as I'm sure many republicans felt they did too.

    What really pisses me off about some shinners is the way everyone in the IRA was a saint. Every target was valid. The IRA never did a single ****ing thing wrong. yet the entire british army are cnuts.

    Im not a shinner…. I've never voted sinn feinn….. this thread is moving far away from the original theme of debating the allowance of former ira volunteers to canvass for sinn feinn.

    However… The BA were the occupying force in OUR country. When people fighting for the unification of the 32 counties as one complete republic fought against these occupying forces they were treated as criminals. When they tried to negotiate with the british they were often promised change but it never happened (as in the case of the first hunger strike). Then when they increased there protest by means of a second hunger strike the British government allowed 10 men to die rather than negotiate.

    I believe a direct quote from margaret thatcher sums up the government at the time

    "Mr. Sands was a convicted criminal. He chose to take his own life. It was a choice that his organisation did not allow to many of its victims

    ‘There can be no question of political status for someone who is serving a sentence for crime. Crime is crime is crime. It is not political, it is crime


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  • #847
    Fratton Fred
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,566 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    Grayson wrote: »
    I'll admit the the UK have performed atrocities over the years. They were the first people to gas kurds for example.

    There's plenty of things to choose from, yet you've picked an urban myth?


  • #848
    Fratton Fred
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,566 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    Happyman42 wrote: »
    As part of a campaign of terror. Same design as carpet bombing, ala Colonge and Dresden.

    Slightly different context though.


  • #849
    WakeUp
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,823 ✭✭✭WakeUp


    bumper234 wrote: »
    Would also love to see your evidence for that seeing as there is no question about their role.

    So Im just obeserving the debate here same old same old it would appear though the part Ive highlighted is nonsense there very much is a question concerning British state involvement in the bombings to say there isnt is false. They refuse to release the files they have stonewalled us for years some of the families intend to sue the British government our president has weighed in on top of Enda asking that they release the relevant files. Clearly there are things in those files they do not want us to see. If they have nothing hide then release them until they do there will always be a question mark about their role in those terrorist attacks.


  • #850
    kingchess
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 795 ✭✭✭kingchess


    Fratton Fred wrote: »
    There's plenty of things to choose from, yet you've picked an urban myth?
    concentration camps in the boer war?true or false


  • #851
    Fratton Fred
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,566 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    WakeUp wrote: »
    So Im just obeserving the debate here same old same old it would appear though the part Ive highlighted is nonsense there very much is a question concerning British state involvement in the bombings to say there isnt is false. They refuse to release the files they have stonewalled us for years some of the families intend to sue the British government our president has weighed in on top of Enda asking that they release the relevant files. Clearly there are things in those files they do not want us to see. If they have nothing hide then release them until they do there will always be a question mark about their role in those terrorist attacks.

    You'd like them to prove a negative?


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  • #852
    Fratton Fred
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,566 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    kingchess wrote: »
    concentration camps in the boer war?true or false

    For sure, what better reason was there to bomb Warrington?


  • #853
    bumper234
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,250 ✭✭✭✭bumper234


    FTA69 wrote: »
    bumper234 wrote: »



    That would be a high percentage of them then I'd imagine. As you know yourself from your military experiences, the "who did what" or "who was where" stuff is very difficult to quantify. There have been plenty of gunship operators, aerial bombers and various other soldiers active in British politics and society across a variety of levels. It's a natural progression at the end of any conflict.

    One thing is certain though, is that the British Army as a whole is culpable for a huge amount of civilian casualties, (as were the IRA for that matter), but yet you have no problem with them engaging in politics afterwards.

    However, Sinn Féin are a total shower of bastards in your eyes for being associated with ex-combatants. That's hypocrisy at its finest mate.

    Again i will reiterate my position

    Could you please link me to one who was convicted of deliberately planting a bomb to murder someone or who was convicted of murdering a child? If not then your little whataboutery is worthless and off topic.


  • #854
    WakeUp
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,823 ✭✭✭WakeUp


    Fratton Fred wrote: »
    You'd like them to prove a negative?

    Id like them to hand over the files and let our people have a look at them. Our president and Taoisach are of the same opinion.


  • #855
    FTA69
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,252 ✭✭✭FTA69


    bumper234 wrote: »
    FTA69 wrote: »

    Again i will reiterate my position

    Could you please link me to one who was convicted of deliberately planting a bomb to murder someone or who was convicted of murdering a child? If not then your little whataboutery is worthless and off topic.

    So there were never any RAF members involved in aerial bombardment of civilian areas who later became active in British politics or wider society? There were never any Kenyan or Malaysian veterans who participated in campaign that featured decapitation of prisoners amongst other things? B*llocks. You and I both know that's not true. Convictions don't come into it because as has been discussed, the British Army rarely tend to convict anyone for any of their atrocities.

    The British Army as a whole is responsible for some pretty nasty stuff bumper; and I don't buy into this notion that you can pledge allegiance to an organisation and then cleanly disown the unpalatable acts it gets up to. If you think it's ok for ex-British soldiers to campaign for Labour or the Tories etc then equally it's acceptable for ex-IRA members to campaign for Sinn Féin or whoever else.

    If it's just a case of you thinking the Brits were right in Ireland and the IRA were the personification of evil then come out and say that.

    But spare us your hypocrisy and moral outrage in the process.


  • #856
    czx
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 544 ✭✭✭czx


    Seaneh wrote: »
    I thought the word "shinnerbot" was banned? why has it been used approx 30 times in this thread?

    Because of people like you who vote SF


  • #857
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,069 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    Fratton Fred wrote: »
    Why was Warrington bombed on a Saturday lunchtime?
    Why were the Birmingham pubs and the La Mon restaurant bombed on a Friday night?
    Maximum disruption. Thought that was obvious.


  • #858
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,069 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    czx wrote: »
    Because of people like you who vote SF
    So everybody who votes SF then?
    Can we likewise have Failbots, Gaelbots, Labots and Antibots then?


  • #859
    bumper234
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,250 ✭✭✭✭bumper234


    FTA69 wrote: »
    bumper234 wrote: »

    So there were never any RAF members involved in aerial bombardment of civilian areas who later became active in British politics or wider society? There were never any Kenyan or Malaysian veterans who participated in campaign that featured decapitation of prisoners amongst other things? B*llocks. You and I both know that's not true. Convictions don't come into it because as has been discussed, the British Army rarely tend to convict anyone for any of their atrocities.

    The British Army as a whole is responsible for some pretty nasty stuff bumper; and I don't buy into this notion that you can pledge allegiance to an organisation and then cleanly disown the unpalatable acts it gets up to. If you think it's ok for ex-British soldiers to campaign for Labour or the Tories etc then equally it's acceptable for ex-IRA members to campaign for Sinn Féin or whoever else.

    If it's just a case of you thinking the Brits were right in Ireland and the IRA were the personification of evil then come out and say that.

    But spare us your hypocrisy and moral outrage in the process.

    To the first part,

    Please name one who was convicted of the COLD BLOODED MURDER of civilian children, if you can't then your point is moot

    To the second part,

    I have no issue with "Ex IRA members" campaigning for for sinn fein and in fact i encourage more of them to do it as it reminds people of the scum they are affiliated with. I have an issue with a CONVICTED CHILD KILLER canvassing for sinn fein members.


  • #860
    czx
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 544 ✭✭✭czx


    Nodin wrote: »
    I don't think he did anything wrong, deliberately at least. He played a part in the armed struggle as did many.

    Though you hate collateral damage?


  • #861
    bumper234
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,250 ✭✭✭✭bumper234


    Dan_Solo wrote: »
    Maximum disruption. Thought that was obvious.

    The innocent civilian deaths were just accidental right :rolleyes:


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  • #862
    czx
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 544 ✭✭✭czx


    Dan_Solo wrote: »
    So everybody who votes SF then?
    Can we likewise have Failbots, Gaelbots, Labots and Antibots then?

    You can have whatever you want, but there's a reason the word exists


  • #863
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,069 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    bumper234 wrote: »
    FTA69 wrote: »
    Please name one who was convicted of the COLD BLOODED MURDER of civilian children, if you can't then your point is moot
    Well that's kinda the point of the whole thing. We can't name a single British soldier who served any meaningful sentence of the handful who were ever even charged.


  • #864
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,069 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    czx wrote: »
    You can have whatever you want, but there's a reason the word exists
    That reason being the smear campaign built on the fears of the golden circle and their supporters you mean?
    OK, got you now.


  • #865
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,069 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    bumper234 wrote: »
    The innocent civilian deaths were just accidental right :rolleyes:
    That depends on who you believe on the warnings, the British government or the IRA.


  • #866
    Fratton Fred
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,566 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    Dan_Solo wrote: »
    Maximum disruption. Thought that was obvious.

    To who? Bombing a pub or a McDonald's is about as maximum a business disruption they can get.

    It would make no difference to the business if their premises were destroyed at 1am or 1pm.


  • #867
    bumper234
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,250 ✭✭✭✭bumper234


    Dan_Solo wrote: »
    That reason being the smear campaign built on the fears of the golden circle and their supporters you mean?
    OK, got you now.

    Don't forget the New World Order......those bastards are everywhere too :rolleyes:


  • #868
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,069 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    bumper234 wrote: »
    I have no issue with "Ex IRA members" campaigning for for sinn fein and in fact i encourage more of them to do it as it reminds people of the scum they are affiliated with. I have an issue with a CONVICTED CHILD KILLER canvassing for sinn fein members.
    What issue do you have? You're apparently delighted as this will kill SF at these elections...
    (that doesn't appear to be working mind you).
    So, what exactly do you plan on doing with all that pent up moral outrage?


  • #869
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,069 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    Fratton Fred wrote: »
    To who? Bombing a pub or a McDonald's is about as maximum a business disruption they can get.

    It would make no difference to the business if their premises were destroyed at 1am or 1pm.
    You're kidding, right?
    Having an evacuation at the busiest time of the week for a high street or pub is maximum disruption, not when they are closed.


  • #870
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,069 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    bumper234 wrote: »
    Don't forget the New World Order......those bastards are everywhere too :rolleyes:
    Or FF, FG and Lab were always honestly doing their best with no cosying up to developers or bank execs if you want it your way.


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  • #871
    bumper234
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,250 ✭✭✭✭bumper234


    Dan_Solo wrote: »
    What issue do you have? You're apparently delighted as this will kill SF at these elections...
    (that doesn't appear to be working mind you).
    So, what exactly do you plan on doing with all that pent up moral outrage?

    I would never lose a second of sleep over these or any other election results, I started this thread to point out that a convicted child killer is canvassing for a sinn fein candidate, People are well able to make of that what they will.


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