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Farming Strike over poor prices

  • 22-05-2014 11:35PM
    #1
    allbuiz
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 243 ✭✭


    While I was flat out on my tractor today I began to think why does all the power reside with the processors and the retailers. The reason is quite simply because the primary producer accepts the price his customer offers.

    So if we apply this to the current beef price issue, if the farmer decides to only sell his animal for export and not to a factory the factory will be forced to pay better prices or go out of business.

    We need action because let's face it, their meeting of "the last supper" did nothing for the beef farmer and farmers have no real voice within these matters.


«1

Comments

  • #2
    epfff
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,636 ✭✭✭epfff


    allbuiz wrote: »
    While I was flat out on my tractor today I began to think why does all the power reside with the processors and the retailers. The reason is quite simply because the primary producer accepts the price his customer offers.

    So if we apply this to the current beef price issue, if the farmer decides to only sell his animal for export and not to a factory the factory will be forced to pay better prices or go out of business.

    We need action because let's face it, their meeting of "the last supper" did nothing for the beef farmer and farmers have no real voice within these matters.
    It has never worked cas farmers are not a united bunch
    Their are so may dumasses out there that are more consumed by jealousy of others rather than improving their own enterprise
    They all want one up on their neighbour and can't see any further than that
    So they break ranks for the littlest sweetener
    It's like all the secacry around the price they get in factories instead of publishing it so others can know how far they can be pushed


  • #3
    royalmeath
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 165 ✭✭royalmeath


    epfff wrote: »
    It has never worked cas farmers are not a united bunch
    Their are so may dumasses out there that are more consumed by jealousy of others rather than improving their own enterprise
    They all want one up on their neighbour and can't see any further than that
    So they break ranks for the littlest sweetener
    It's like all the secacry around the price they get in factories instead of publishing it so others can know how far they can be pushed

    I couldnt agree more.


  • #4
    _Brian
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 19,745 ✭✭✭✭_Brian


    epfff wrote: »
    It has never worked cas farmers are not a united bunch
    Their are so may dumasses out there that are more consumed by jealousy of others rather than improving their own enterprise
    They all want one up on their neighbour and can't see any further than that
    So they break ranks for the littlest sweetener
    It's like all the secacry around the price they get in factories instead of publishing it so others can know how far they can be pushed

    Spot on..
    Farmers are a hard bunch to unite on anything.. Emotions associated to land in this country are bordering on the ridiculous. you meet lads who are too mad that O'Reilly's bull trampled the spud garden 20 years ago to unite with O'Reilly for any reason.


  • #5
    MayoSalmon
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,658 ✭✭✭MayoSalmon


    This country is full of begrudgers and me feiners


  • #6
    Nekarsulm
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,307 ✭✭✭✭Nekarsulm


    And of course there will be always farmers under financial pressure who would not be able to hold off sending cattle to the factory/wherever, despite the price at the time.


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  • #7
    allbuiz
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 243 ✭✭allbuiz


    Yeah but if we made protested outside the meat factories and any farmer or haulier that entered the premises would feel ashamed as he let the side down. Sure sell the cattle to Libya, China or anywhere else that will take them. Short term pain for long term gain. IFA protests dont work as they dont have enough strength. Im talking about a full scale boycot, it would attract a lot of media attention and at the end of the day the consumer dosent want the farmer living off beans and toast while they eat steak. Its about time we realised there is very little to be gained by competing against each other.


  • #8
    allbuiz
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 243 ✭✭allbuiz


    epfff wrote: »
    It has never worked cas farmers are not a united bunch
    Their are so may dumasses out there that are more consumed by jealousy of others rather than improving their own enterprise
    They all want one up on their neighbour and can't see any further than that
    So they break ranks for the littlest sweetener
    It's like all the secacry around the price they get in factories instead of publishing it so others can know how far they can be pushed

    We need someone to inform them that this attitude is costing the farmer money and making the meat factories rich.


  • #9
    frazzledhome
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,278 ✭✭✭frazzledhome


    Would dairy farmers have to dump milk, pig guys keep fit pigs, grain guys build stores to hold harvest and veg men plough down crops?

    We can't strike and they know this. What farmers need to do is control supply by having animals ready in a flatter curve aswell as not polling each other in the mart


  • #10
    allbuiz
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 243 ✭✭allbuiz


    frazzledhome wrote: »
    Would dairy farmers have to dump milk, pig guys keep fit pigs, grain guys build stores to hold harvest and veg men plough down crops?

    We can't strike and they know this. What farmers need to do is control supply by having animals ready in a flatter curve aswell as not polling each other in the mart

    Why cant we strike? Are we that naive to not believe that we actually have poll position in the food chain. What would actually happen if we strike? The secondary producer will have no product to process therefore leaving him with no revenue. While I agree with you on controlling supply factors beyond the farmers control lead to oversupply and we end up paying the price due to business tyrants taking advantage of their position within the market. Well if they saw a full scale strike once, they wouldn't dare to treat us like second class citizens again.


  • #11
    whelan2
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 31,979 ✭✭✭✭whelan2


    its always the same, lads at meetings or on here saying to keep milk, not send cattle, boycott certain businesses etc but at the end of the day no one does it, talk is cheap.


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  • #12
    larrymiller
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,456 ✭✭✭larrymiller


    We need a beef quota ;)


  • #13
    allbuiz
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 243 ✭✭allbuiz


    larrymiller wrote: »
    We need a beef quota ;)

    We actually dont, there is a lot of demand for Beef and in the states it is continually rising.


  • #14
    Nekarsulm
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,307 ✭✭✭✭Nekarsulm


    Because a factory would rather close for a month, and supply a contract from one of their factories in UK/etc. , lay off staff and claim to be "upgrading the line" or "essential maintenance" or whatever than pay an increased price for the foreseeable future. The lads with fit cattle/lambs/pigs (especially pigs) simply have to get them out the gate. A factory owner will always have deeper pockets than a farmer. And if the beef factory has a good supply of animals coming from their own feedlots, well you with your 12 bullocks can go jump.

    Back in the 80's the local dairy co-op looked at the idea of buying a meat factory. They dropped the idea because "the running of a meat factory is incompatible with the co-op ideal" ie, if you're not a hook, you wont make the real money.


  • #15
    allbuiz
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 243 ✭✭allbuiz


    whelan2 wrote: »
    its always the same, lads at meetings or on here saying to keep milk, not send cattle, boycott certain businesses etc but at the end of the day no one does it, talk is cheap.

    Well why dont we finally do something about it? I have written letters to the editor of IFJ about this and they have never published them. The fact of the matter remains we need to stand up and be counted and not treated like second class citizens.


  • #16
    allbuiz
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 243 ✭✭allbuiz


    Nekarsulm wrote: »
    Because a factory would rather close for a month, and supply a contract from one of their factories in UK/etc. , lay off staff and claim to be "upgrading the line" or "essential maintenance" or whatever than pay an increased price for the foreseeable future. The lads with fit cattle/lambs/pigs (especially pigs) simply have to get them out the gate. A factory owner will always have deeper pockets than a farmer. And if the beef factory has a good supply of animals coming from their own feedlots, well you with your 12 bullocks can go jump.

    Would the factory not lose the trust of their customers if they fail to produce orders? I'm mainly referencing a strike towards the beef end of farming. While their feed lots do pose an issue, if it were a full scale strike they couldn't cope with the drop in through put furthermore it would attract plenty of media attention and show them up for the individuals they really are.


  • #17
    allbuiz
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 243 ✭✭allbuiz


    How would factories have deeper pockets than 20,000 farmers?


  • #18
    frazzledhome
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,278 ✭✭✭frazzledhome


    allbuiz wrote: »
    Why cant we strike? Are we that naive to not believe that we actually have poll position in the food chain. What would actually happen if we strike? The secondary producer will have no product to process therefore leaving him with no revenue. While I agree with you on controlling supply factors beyond the farmers control lead to oversupply and we end up paying the price due to business tyrants taking advantage of their position within the market. Well if they saw a full scale strike once, they wouldn't dare to treat us like second class citizens again.

    Ok threes weeks milk products in storage, we strike how long would you think it'd be feasible for me to dump milk? What would I tell my bank and other creditors? I can't expect beef guys to strike and not support them by not striking.


  • #19
    sheebadog
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,246 ✭✭✭sheebadog


    larrymiller wrote: »
    We need a beef quota ;)

    Discuss please !


  • #20
    larrymiller
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,456 ✭✭✭larrymiller


    sheebadog wrote: »
    Discuss please !

    I'm not being serious but it's something that has come to mind.

    We are to predictable, they know what we have and when it's ready.

    They have there own cattle ready to keep prices down when there might be a shortage.

    It's a vicious circle and to be honest I think we're fooked for a while.

    IMO we will always be the factory's b!tch no matter what


  • #21
    allbuiz
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 243 ✭✭allbuiz


    frazzledhome wrote: »
    Ok threes weeks milk products in storage, we strike how long would you think it'd be feasible for me to dump milk? What would I tell my bank and other creditors? I can't expect beef guys to strike and not support them by not striking.

    I'd say they would cave in after six to eight weeks. Short term pain for long term gain. Its a bit like when this country was ruled by another country, everyone knew it was wrong however nobody believed it was ever possible to obtain independence. Farmers need to obtain independence from these tyrants.

    The price of beef didnt drop in England, did it? So why is the Irish farmer being paid less than his British counterpart? Because his customers are in a cartel that he thinks he must bow down to, we need to stand up and be counted because we have more self worth


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  • #22
    allbuiz
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 243 ✭✭allbuiz


    larrymiller wrote: »
    I'm not being serious but it's something that has come to mind.

    We are to predictable, they know what we have and when it's ready.

    They have there own cattle ready to keep prices down when there might be a shortage.

    It's a vicious circle and to be honest I think we're fooked for a while.

    IMO we will always be the factory's b!tch no matter what

    With that attitude you will always be the sucking their c_ _ _! Stand up and play them at their own game. Nothing like this was ever done before and it would leave a lasting memory with them.


  • #23
    Nekarsulm
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,307 ✭✭✭✭Nekarsulm


    allbuiz wrote: »
    How would factories have deeper pockets than 20,000 farmers?

    Because they don't need deeper pockets than 20,000 farmers. Just need deeper pockets than 800 farmers.

    Its a bit like the old yarn about two lads being chased by a bear. You don't need to be faster than the bear, just faster than the other lad.

    And if every farmer withheld his animals for 1 month, not regarding the cost of feeding cattle for that month, can you see the scenario when 2 months worth of cattle arrive at the same time? Half of which are over-fat and a month older?


  • #24
    Base price
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 12,036 ✭✭✭✭Base price


    larrymiller wrote: »
    I'm not being serious but it's something that has come to mind.

    We are to predictable, they know what we have and when it's ready.

    They have there own cattle ready to keep prices down when there might be a shortage.

    It's a vicious circle and to be honest I think we're fooked for a while.

    IMO we will always be the factory's b!tch no matter what
    Totally agree with Larry on this. Even with increased live exports we will always be at the mercy of the factories. As previously stated they will fill orders from their own feedlots or with cattle from other EU member states. Their capabilities of forward planning is the key to their own success as they can plan for future markets.
    Prime example is the recent mass purchase of AAx and Hex bull calves by Larry and Co. I wonder will that in itself be the death knell for the premiums offered by other meat factories for such cattle.


  • #25
    allbuiz
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 243 ✭✭allbuiz


    Nekarsulm wrote: »
    Because they don't need deeper pockets than 20,000 farmers. Just need deeper pockets than 800 farmers.

    Its a bit like the old yarn about two lads being chased by a bear. You don't need to be faster than the bear, just faster than the other lad.

    And if every farmer withheld his animals for 1 month, not regarding the cost of feeding cattle for that month, can you see the scenario when 2 months worth of cattle arrive at the same time? Half of which are over-fat and a month older?

    What happened in the Coal strikes in the 80's? The unions won the war. Strength in numbers man. 800 farmers may cross the picket line but the bottom line there would be 19,200 farmers not giving in.


  • #26
    allbuiz
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 243 ✭✭allbuiz


    Base price wrote: »
    Totally agree with Larry on this. Even with increased live exports we will always be at the mercy of the factories. As previously stated they will fill orders from their own feedlots or with cattle from other EU member states. Their capabilities of forward planning is the key to their own success as they can plan for future markets.
    Prime example is the recent mass purchase of AAx and Hex bull calves by Larry and Co. I wonder will that in itself be the death knell for the premiums offered by other meat factories for such cattle.

    So how will they get around the labelling issues there? French beef processed in Ireland and sold in England. Will the consumer be happy with that? The element of surprise would be a good remedy for them. TBH I think we're just to use to accepting this behaviour from them. This was fine when there was over supply but now the tables have turned globally.


  • #27
    Conmaicne Mara
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,543 ✭✭✭Conmaicne Mara


    allbuiz wrote: »
    What happened in the Coal strikes in the 80's? The unions won the war. Strength in numbers man. 800 farmers may cross the picket line but the bottom line there would be 19,200 farmers not giving in.

    How much do you need to feed coal per day, how much does that cost, and how many coal mines are open now? You're dreaming. If it was that easy it'd be done already.


  • #28
    Muckit
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,171 ✭✭✭✭Muckit


    allbuiz wrote: »

    The price of beef didnt drop in England, did it?

    The UK prices are under pressure and have come down recently according to the IFJ and Farmers weekly. In the states beef prices are actually on the increase.

    I applaud your fight for better beef prices. You are right that we (forget about deserve) but NEED CONSISTENTLY better price/kg. Unfortunately I can't see farmers uniting nationally in big enough numbers or in any sort of purposeful concerted effort. Talk talk and talk as Whelan said, but money talks and bullSH*t walks and if bills have to be paid then somethings gotta give and individual farmers couldn't be shunned for thinking of themselves and their families.

    I can't propose any real alternative solution to the situation. You referred to Ireland's fight for independence. Who would you see as the equivalent signatories of the proclamation in terms of the fight for better beef prices?! Very few good agricultural leaders in this country willing to come together and put their neck on the line to unite farmers. Mores the pity.


  • #29
    allbuiz
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 243 ✭✭allbuiz


    Conmaicne Mara wrote: »
    How much do you need to feed coal per day, how much does that cost, and how many coal mines are open now? You're dreaming. If it was that easy it'd be done already.

    My reference to coal mines was Margaret Tatcher drove down the prices of coal to unsustainable levels in the 80's and the people began to strike over this injustice. I wouldnt really be too concerned weather or not it is used today or not as it is irrelevant. So do you like receiving poor prices for your cattle that you put a lot of effort into? Do you have a sense of self worth after it?


  • #30
    merryberry
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 332 ✭✭merryberry


    allbuiz wrote: »
    Why cant we strike?.

    Farmers can't strike...we just can't. Can u afford to strike? Is ur holding equipped for a strike? Can u hold cattle for x number of weeks and incur further costs. Will your neighbour follow suit? Can u risk holding out in anticipation of higher prices that may not come. It's the factory that pays u for what u produce. They know they can get it elsewhere if ur not willing to supply them.

    Are you talking about supply disruption here. At c. 170-200k pa live export trade and export market spec, live export alone is not going to dirupt volume enough. Farmers rely on factories...processors know this.


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  • #31
    Conmaicne Mara
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,543 ✭✭✭Conmaicne Mara


    allbuiz wrote: »
    My reference to coal mines was Margaret Tatcher drove down the prices of coal to unsustainable levels in the 80's and the people began to strike over this injustice. I wouldnt really be too concerned weather or not it is used today or not as it is irrelevant. So do you like receiving poor prices for your cattle that you put a lot of effort into? Do you have a sense of self worth after it?

    How many coal mines are open?

    It's too easy to not be concerned. Go out and organise it yourself, then you'll have to be concerned.


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