Farming Strike over poor prices

allbuiz

While I was flat out on my tractor today I began to think why does all the power reside with the processors and the retailers. The reason is quite simply because the primary producer accepts the price his customer offers.

So if we apply this to the current beef price issue, if the farmer decides to only sell his animal for export and not to a factory the factory will be forced to pay better prices or go out of business.

We need action because let's face it, their meeting of "the last supper" did nothing for the beef farmer and farmers have no real voice within these matters.

epfff

allbuiz wrote: »

While I was flat out on my tractor today I began to think why does all the power reside with the processors and the retailers. The reason is quite simply because the primary producer accepts the price his customer offers.

So if we apply this to the current beef price issue, if the farmer decides to only sell his animal for export and not to a factory the factory will be forced to pay better prices or go out of business.

We need action because let's face it, their meeting of "the last supper" did nothing for the beef farmer and farmers have no real voice within these matters.

It has never worked cas farmers are not a united bunch
Their are so may dumasses out there that are more consumed by jealousy of others rather than improving their own enterprise
They all want one up on their neighbour and can't see any further than that
So they break ranks for the littlest sweetener
It's like all the secacry around the price they get in factories instead of publishing it so others can know how far they can be pushed

royalmeath

epfff wrote: »

It has never worked cas farmers are not a united bunch
Their are so may dumasses out there that are more consumed by jealousy of others rather than improving their own enterprise
They all want one up on their neighbour and can't see any further than that
So they break ranks for the littlest sweetener
It's like all the secacry around the price they get in factories instead of publishing it so others can know how far they can be pushed

I couldnt agree more.

_Brian

epfff wrote: »

It has never worked cas farmers are not a united bunch
Their are so may dumasses out there that are more consumed by jealousy of others rather than improving their own enterprise
They all want one up on their neighbour and can't see any further than that
So they break ranks for the littlest sweetener
It's like all the secacry around the price they get in factories instead of publishing it so others can know how far they can be pushed

Spot on..
Farmers are a hard bunch to unite on anything.. Emotions associated to land in this country are bordering on the ridiculous. you meet lads who are too mad that O'Reilly's bull trampled the spud garden 20 years ago to unite with O'Reilly for any reason.

MayoSalmon

This country is full of begrudgers and me feiners

Nekarsulm

And of course there will be always farmers under financial pressure who would not be able to hold off sending cattle to the factory/wherever, despite the price at the time.

allbuiz

Yeah but if we made protested outside the meat factories and any farmer or haulier that entered the premises would feel ashamed as he let the side down. Sure sell the cattle to Libya, China or anywhere else that will take them. Short term pain for long term gain. IFA protests dont work as they dont have enough strength. Im talking about a full scale boycot, it would attract a lot of media attention and at the end of the day the consumer dosent want the farmer living off beans and toast while they eat steak. Its about time we realised there is very little to be gained by competing against each other.

allbuiz

epfff wrote: »

It has never worked cas farmers are not a united bunch
Their are so may dumasses out there that are more consumed by jealousy of others rather than improving their own enterprise
They all want one up on their neighbour and can't see any further than that
So they break ranks for the littlest sweetener
It's like all the secacry around the price they get in factories instead of publishing it so others can know how far they can be pushed

We need someone to inform them that this attitude is costing the farmer money and making the meat factories rich.

frazzledhome

Would dairy farmers have to dump milk, pig guys keep fit pigs, grain guys build stores to hold harvest and veg men plough down crops?

We can't strike and they know this. What farmers need to do is control supply by having animals ready in a flatter curve aswell as not polling each other in the mart

allbuiz

frazzledhome wrote: »

Would dairy farmers have to dump milk, pig guys keep fit pigs, grain guys build stores to hold harvest and veg men plough down crops?

We can't strike and they know this. What farmers need to do is control supply by having animals ready in a flatter curve aswell as not polling each other in the mart

Why cant we strike? Are we that naive to not believe that we actually have poll position in the food chain. What would actually happen if we strike? The secondary producer will have no product to process therefore leaving him with no revenue. While I agree with you on controlling supply factors beyond the farmers control lead to oversupply and we end up paying the price due to business tyrants taking advantage of their position within the market. Well if they saw a full scale strike once, they wouldn't dare to treat us like second class citizens again.

whelan2

its always the same, lads at meetings or on here saying to keep milk, not send cattle, boycott certain businesses etc but at the end of the day no one does it, talk is cheap.

larrymiller

We need a beef quota

allbuiz

larrymiller wrote: »

We need a beef quota

We actually dont, there is a lot of demand for Beef and in the states it is continually rising.

Nekarsulm

Because a factory would rather close for a month, and supply a contract from one of their factories in UK/etc. , lay off staff and claim to be "upgrading the line" or "essential maintenance" or whatever than pay an increased price for the foreseeable future. The lads with fit cattle/lambs/pigs (especially pigs) simply have to get them out the gate. A factory owner will always have deeper pockets than a farmer. And if the beef factory has a good supply of animals coming from their own feedlots, well you with your 12 bullocks can go jump.

Back in the 80's the local dairy co-op looked at the idea of buying a meat factory. They dropped the idea because "the running of a meat factory is incompatible with the co-op ideal" ie, if you're not a hook, you wont make the real money.

allbuiz

whelan2 wrote: »

its always the same, lads at meetings or on here saying to keep milk, not send cattle, boycott certain businesses etc but at the end of the day no one does it, talk is cheap.

Well why dont we finally do something about it? I have written letters to the editor of IFJ about this and they have never published them. The fact of the matter remains we need to stand up and be counted and not treated like second class citizens.

allbuiz

Nekarsulm wrote: »

Because a factory would rather close for a month, and supply a contract from one of their factories in UK/etc. , lay off staff and claim to be "upgrading the line" or "essential maintenance" or whatever than pay an increased price for the foreseeable future. The lads with fit cattle/lambs/pigs (especially pigs) simply have to get them out the gate. A factory owner will always have deeper pockets than a farmer. And if the beef factory has a good supply of animals coming from their own feedlots, well you with your 12 bullocks can go jump.

Would the factory not lose the trust of their customers if they fail to produce orders? I'm mainly referencing a strike towards the beef end of farming. While their feed lots do pose an issue, if it were a full scale strike they couldn't cope with the drop in through put furthermore it would attract plenty of media attention and show them up for the individuals they really are.

allbuiz

How would factories have deeper pockets than 20,000 farmers?

frazzledhome

allbuiz wrote: »

Why cant we strike? Are we that naive to not believe that we actually have poll position in the food chain. What would actually happen if we strike? The secondary producer will have no product to process therefore leaving him with no revenue. While I agree with you on controlling supply factors beyond the farmers control lead to oversupply and we end up paying the price due to business tyrants taking advantage of their position within the market. Well if they saw a full scale strike once, they wouldn't dare to treat us like second class citizens again.

Ok threes weeks milk products in storage, we strike how long would you think it'd be feasible for me to dump milk? What would I tell my bank and other creditors? I can't expect beef guys to strike and not support them by not striking.

sheebadog

larrymiller wrote: »

We need a beef quota

Discuss please !

larrymiller

sheebadog wrote: »

Discuss please !

I'm not being serious but it's something that has come to mind.

We are to predictable, they know what we have and when it's ready.

They have there own cattle ready to keep prices down when there might be a shortage.

It's a vicious circle and to be honest I think we're fooked for a while.

IMO we will always be the factory's b!tch no matter what

allbuiz

frazzledhome wrote: »

Ok threes weeks milk products in storage, we strike how long would you think it'd be feasible for me to dump milk? What would I tell my bank and other creditors? I can't expect beef guys to strike and not support them by not striking.

I'd say they would cave in after six to eight weeks. Short term pain for long term gain. Its a bit like when this country was ruled by another country, everyone knew it was wrong however nobody believed it was ever possible to obtain independence. Farmers need to obtain independence from these tyrants.

The price of beef didnt drop in England, did it? So why is the Irish farmer being paid less than his British counterpart? Because his customers are in a cartel that he thinks he must bow down to, we need to stand up and be counted because we have more self worth

allbuiz

larrymiller wrote: »

I'm not being serious but it's something that has come to mind.

We are to predictable, they know what we have and when it's ready.

They have there own cattle ready to keep prices down when there might be a shortage.

It's a vicious circle and to be honest I think we're fooked for a while.

IMO we will always be the factory's b!tch no matter what

With that attitude you will always be the sucking their c_ _ _! Stand up and play them at their own game. Nothing like this was ever done before and it would leave a lasting memory with them.

Nekarsulm

allbuiz wrote: »

How would factories have deeper pockets than 20,000 farmers?

Because they don't need deeper pockets than 20,000 farmers. Just need deeper pockets than 800 farmers.

Its a bit like the old yarn about two lads being chased by a bear. You don't need to be faster than the bear, just faster than the other lad.

And if every farmer withheld his animals for 1 month, not regarding the cost of feeding cattle for that month, can you see the scenario when 2 months worth of cattle arrive at the same time? Half of which are over-fat and a month older?

Base price

larrymiller wrote: »

I'm not being serious but it's something that has come to mind.

We are to predictable, they know what we have and when it's ready.

They have there own cattle ready to keep prices down when there might be a shortage.

It's a vicious circle and to be honest I think we're fooked for a while.

IMO we will always be the factory's b!tch no matter what

Totally agree with Larry on this. Even with increased live exports we will always be at the mercy of the factories. As previously stated they will fill orders from their own feedlots or with cattle from other EU member states. Their capabilities of forward planning is the key to their own success as they can plan for future markets.
Prime example is the recent mass purchase of AAx and Hex bull calves by Larry and Co. I wonder will that in itself be the death knell for the premiums offered by other meat factories for such cattle.

allbuiz

Nekarsulm wrote: »

Because they don't need deeper pockets than 20,000 farmers. Just need deeper pockets than 800 farmers.

Its a bit like the old yarn about two lads being chased by a bear. You don't need to be faster than the bear, just faster than the other lad.

And if every farmer withheld his animals for 1 month, not regarding the cost of feeding cattle for that month, can you see the scenario when 2 months worth of cattle arrive at the same time? Half of which are over-fat and a month older?

What happened in the Coal strikes in the 80's? The unions won the war. Strength in numbers man. 800 farmers may cross the picket line but the bottom line there would be 19,200 farmers not giving in.

allbuiz

Base price wrote: »

Totally agree with Larry on this. Even with increased live exports we will always be at the mercy of the factories. As previously stated they will fill orders from their own feedlots or with cattle from other EU member states. Their capabilities of forward planning is the key to their own success as they can plan for future markets.
Prime example is the recent mass purchase of AAx and Hex bull calves by Larry and Co. I wonder will that in itself be the death knell for the premiums offered by other meat factories for such cattle.

So how will they get around the labelling issues there? French beef processed in Ireland and sold in England. Will the consumer be happy with that? The element of surprise would be a good remedy for them. TBH I think we're just to use to accepting this behaviour from them. This was fine when there was over supply but now the tables have turned globally.

Conmaicne Mara

allbuiz wrote: »

What happened in the Coal strikes in the 80's? The unions won the war. Strength in numbers man. 800 farmers may cross the picket line but the bottom line there would be 19,200 farmers not giving in.

How much do you need to feed coal per day, how much does that cost, and how many coal mines are open now? You're dreaming. If it was that easy it'd be done already.

Muckit

allbuiz wrote: »

The price of beef didnt drop in England, did it?

The UK prices are under pressure and have come down recently according to the IFJ and Farmers weekly. In the states beef prices are actually on the increase.

I applaud your fight for better beef prices. You are right that we (forget about deserve) but NEED CONSISTENTLY better price/kg. Unfortunately I can't see farmers uniting nationally in big enough numbers or in any sort of purposeful concerted effort. Talk talk and talk as Whelan said, but money talks and bullSH*t walks and if bills have to be paid then somethings gotta give and individual farmers couldn't be shunned for thinking of themselves and their families.

I can't propose any real alternative solution to the situation. You referred to Ireland's fight for independence. Who would you see as the equivalent signatories of the proclamation in terms of the fight for better beef prices?! Very few good agricultural leaders in this country willing to come together and put their neck on the line to unite farmers. Mores the pity.

allbuiz

Conmaicne Mara wrote: »

How much do you need to feed coal per day, how much does that cost, and how many coal mines are open now? You're dreaming. If it was that easy it'd be done already.

My reference to coal mines was Margaret Tatcher drove down the prices of coal to unsustainable levels in the 80's and the people began to strike over this injustice. I wouldnt really be too concerned weather or not it is used today or not as it is irrelevant. So do you like receiving poor prices for your cattle that you put a lot of effort into? Do you have a sense of self worth after it?

merryberry

allbuiz wrote: »

Why cant we strike?.

Farmers can't strike...we just can't. Can u afford to strike? Is ur holding equipped for a strike? Can u hold cattle for x number of weeks and incur further costs. Will your neighbour follow suit? Can u risk holding out in anticipation of higher prices that may not come. It's the factory that pays u for what u produce. They know they can get it elsewhere if ur not willing to supply them.

Are you talking about supply disruption here. At c. 170-200k pa live export trade and export market spec, live export alone is not going to dirupt volume enough. Farmers rely on factories...processors know this.

Conmaicne Mara

allbuiz wrote: »

My reference to coal mines was Margaret Tatcher drove down the prices of coal to unsustainable levels in the 80's and the people began to strike over this injustice. I wouldnt really be too concerned weather or not it is used today or not as it is irrelevant. So do you like receiving poor prices for your cattle that you put a lot of effort into? Do you have a sense of self worth after it?

How many coal mines are open?

It's too easy to not be concerned. Go out and organise it yourself, then you'll have to be concerned.

allbuiz

Muckit wrote: »

The UK prices are under pressure and have come down recently according to the IFJ and Farmers weekly. In the states beef prices are actually on the increase.

I applaud your fight for better beef prices. You are right that we (forget about deserve) but NEED CONSISTENTLY better price/kg. Unfortunately I can't see farmers uniting nationally in big enough numbers or in any sort of purposeful concerted effort. Talk talk and talk as Whelan said, but money talks and bullSH*t walks and if bills have to be paid then somethings gotta give and individual farmers couldn't be shunned for thinking of themselves and their families.

I can't propose any real alternative solution to the situation. You referred to Ireland's fight for independence. Who would you see as the equivalent signatories of the proclamation in terms of the fight for better beef prices?! Very few good agricultural leaders in this country willing to come together and put their neck on the line to unite farmers. Mores the pity.

Thats the problem, thats why we need a new entity that isnt part of any round table or cartel.

Nekarsulm

allbuiz wrote: »

What happened in the Coal strikes in the 80's? The unions won the war. Strength in numbers man. 800 farmers may cross the picket line but the bottom line there would be 19,200 farmers not giving in.

OK, unfortunately I remember the miners strike, while I get the impression that you may not have been around. The unions did not win the "war" and no amount of revisionism, or listening to old Billy Bragg CD's will change that.
The bottom line then was that it was totally uneconomic to produce coal from UK mines, and cheaper to import from Polish mines. And Maggie was pushing her "privatise industry" line, and not afraid to push her agenda through.
The meat factory know that they don't need all raw materials from 20,000 farmers at the one time, 1/12 of them each month will do nicely, thank you very much. And if beef farming becomes totally uneconomic here (when the SFP is gone?) then the factories will locate their raw materials in Poland or where-ever, like the UK energy industry did.

Base price

allbuiz wrote: »

So how will they get around the labelling issues there? French beef processed in Ireland and sold in England. Will the consumer be happy with that? The element of surprise would be a good remedy for them. TBH I think we're just to use to accepting this behaviour from them. This was fine when there was over supply but now the tables have turned globally.

As far as I understand Irish beef is sold as a "premium" product even if it is priced similarly to UK beef in supermarkets. I doubt that Mrs. Housewife really cares where it comes from once the price is right.

I remember the beef blockade during the 90's. A local farmer was heavily criticised for breaking it after a week or so. I remember him saying at the time that he had no other option as his cattle were fit, he was out of feed and more importantly out of money with a young family to look after. I did not blame him for his actions.
It it easy for others to point the righteous finger until they are in the same situation.

allbuiz

Conmaicne Mara wrote: »

How many coal mines are open?

It's too easy to not be concerned. Go out and organise it yourself, then you'll have to be concerned.

What has the coal mines got to do with this idea? They're closed because of cheaper alternatives, Good food isn't sold cheap.

Conmaicne Mara

allbuiz wrote: »

What has the coal mines got to do with this idea? They're closed because of cheaper alternatives, Good food isn't sold cheap.

As I said, head out and start organising this yourself, you'll soon see how much of a non runner it is.

allbuiz

Nekarsulm wrote: »

OK, unfortunately I remember the miners strike, while I get the impression that you may not have been around. The unions did not win the "war" and no amount of revisionism, or listening to old Billy Bragg CD's will change that.
The bottom line then was that it was totally uneconomic to produce coal from UK mines, and cheaper to import from Polish mines. And Maggie was pushing her "privatise industry" line, and not afraid to push her agenda through.
The meat factory know that they don't need all raw materials from 20,000 farmers at the one time, 1/12 of them each month will do nicely, thank you very much. And if beef farming becomes totally uneconomic here (when the SFP is gone?) then the factories will locate their raw materials in Poland or where-ever, like the UK energy industry did.

People can afford to eat quality products, we are the ones making the large profits for the beef factories. If you think someone will eat hormone beef because its cheaper you are so wrong. People that are on a modest wage care about what they eat.

Nekarsulm

allbuiz wrote: »

What has the coal mines got to do with this idea? They're closed because of cheaper alternatives, Good food isn't sold cheap.

So why bring them up, so? You claim that the Coal Miners Unions "won the war" If they did, I would hate to lose a war!

allbuiz

Conmaicne Mara wrote: »

As I said, head out and start organising this yourself, you'll soon see how much of a non runner it is.

Tell me why its a non runner if everyone united? Instead of moaning about the power of a factory.

allbuiz

Nekarsulm wrote: »

So why bring them up, so? You claim that the Coal Miners Unions "won the war" If they did, I would hate to lose a war!

Sorry I was mistaken (not old enof to remember every detail). So do you like receiving crap payments for your nice cattle?

Conmaicne Mara

allbuiz wrote: »

Tell me why its a non runner if everyone united? Instead of moaning about the power of a factory.

Multiple people in this thread have already told you.

allbuiz

Conmaicne Mara wrote: »

Multiple people in this thread have already told you.

Its your attitude that has us the way we are.

Nekarsulm

allbuiz wrote: »

Sorry I was mistaken (not old enof to remember every detail). So do you like receiving crap payments for your nice cattle?

Every detail? Any detail!

Do you remember the nightly television reports of bus's and coaches, covered in wire mesh, carrying in workers, lads who could not afford not to work because they had families to feed, and getting bricks and bottles rained down on them to chants of "scab, scab, scab"?


It was cheaper to pay dole to every miner than prop up the coal industry. This is the price of being in a world market.

allbuiz

Nekarsulm wrote: »

Every detail? Any detail!

Do you remember the nightly television reports of bus's and coaches, covered in wire mesh, carrying in workers, lads who could not afford not to work because they had families to feed, and getting bricks and bottles rained down on them to chants of "scab, scab, scab"?


It was cheaper to pay dole to every miner than prop up the coal industry. This is the price of being in a world market.

So you reckon farming in Ireland would end up the same? The government paying us dole rather than producing food?

Conmaicne Mara

allbuiz wrote: »

Its your attitude that has us the way we are.

Lol, it is yeah.

merryberry

allbuiz wrote: »

I have written letters to the editor of IFJ about this and they have never published them.

And one wonders why...

allbuiz

Conmaicne Mara wrote: »

Lol, it is yeah.

You actually accept that the factories have a controlling power over you and there is nothing you can do. This attitude is institutionalised.

allbuiz

merryberry wrote: »

And one wonders why...

LOL, maybe this attitude would hurt advertising revenue.

Nekarsulm

allbuiz wrote: »

You actually accept that the factories have a controlling power over you and there is nothing you can do. This attitude is institutionalised.

Allbuiz, I do admire your fervour, but I must direct you to the old axiom,

"If you're not a socialist at the age of 20 you have no heart. If you're not a conservative at the age of 40, you have no brain.”

merryberry

allbuiz wrote: »

LOL, maybe this attitude would hurt advertising revenue.

no ur entitled to ur opinion as nonsensical as it sounds

Conmaicne Mara

allbuiz wrote: »

You actually accept that the factories have a controlling power over you and there is nothing you can do. This attitude is institutionalised.

You might be too young to have heard of sarcasm as well but that's what that was.

You're telling us all how it is, and doing nothing. Like I suggested to you, go out, organise this, and let us know what you find.

But, you won't. You'll sit at the keyboard jibing away instead.