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Convicted child killer canvassing for sinn fein[Mod warning-First Post]

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Comments

  • #692
    Resonator75
    Closed Accounts Posts: 258 ✭✭Resonator75


    Da Shins Kelly wrote: »
    That's kind of the beauty of learning to move on though, isn't it? I mean, those who came before us more than likely voted for known killers (in fact I'm sure we can be fairly certain they did). That's how we've ended up with the FF/FG/Labour monopoly on politics. People just decided to get on with it. We all know the murky pasts of Fine Gael and Fianna Fáil and the Labour Party, but we still choose to accept it and move on. I mean, it's not exactly ancient history when FF and FG were in the same position Sinn Fein are in - fresh out of conflict, a lot of blood spilled, branded terrorists, etc. And look what they've evolved into. How did that happen? People moved on.



    Sinn Fein provides a political outlet for those who were involved in paramilitary activities. It's the political outlet that many for years were urging IRA members to get involved with in order to open dialogue. Now that they're doing that, it's still not enough. If they don't have that outlet, then where do they go? Back to how it was before, with Sinn Fein being censored or some such? Cos that worked out so well. We're supposed to be trying to engage all kinds, even those involved in conflict (perhaps especially those involved in conflict).

    And even beyond that there are plenty of people involved in/vote for Sinn Fein who have had nothing to do with paramilitary activities and are interested in Sinn Fein for other reasons.


    Iwasfrozen never watched the news every day through the 70's, 80's and 90's.

    Its all just a a point scoring game so his team can win.


  • #693
    Iwasfrozen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    Resonator75 wrote: »
    Iwasfrozen,

    Confirm or deny you are a member of Young Fine Gael please
    Categorically deny.


  • #694
    Resonator75
    Closed Accounts Posts: 258 ✭✭Resonator75


    Well you should join up, they'd love to have a you. You'd fit right in.


  • #695
    Da Shins Kelly
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,047 ✭✭✭Da Shins Kelly


    Arah lads, we're going round in circles here. I'm off to bed. Happy voting tomorrow! :)


  • #696
    Iwasfrozen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    Da Shins Kelly wrote: »
    That's kind of the beauty of learning to move on though, isn't it? I mean, those who came before us more than likely voted for known killers (in fact I'm sure we can be fairly certain they did). That's how we've ended up with the FF/FG/Labour monopoly on politics. People just decided to get on with it. We all know the murky pasts of Fine Gael and Fianna Fáil and the Labour Party, but we still choose to accept it and move on. I mean, it's not exactly ancient history when FF and FG were in the same position Sinn Fein are in - fresh out of conflict, a lot of blood spilled, branded terrorists, etc. And look what they've evolved into. How did that happen? People moved on.
    Whether or not a person is willing to vote for a party containing ex-terrorists is a personal mater, whether or not your conscience would be affected by ticking that box.

    My grandfather was a total FFer during the civil war, did he vote for FF when it contained ex-terrorists? No doubt but I'm a different person to my grandfather, it's daft to make a comparison.
    Sinn Fein provides a political outlet for those who were involved in paramilitary activities. It's the political outlet that many for years were urging IRA members to get involved with in order to open dialogue. Now that they're doing that, it's still not enough. If they don't have that outlet, then where do they go? Back to how it was before, with Sinn Fein being censored or some such? Cos that worked out so well. We're supposed to be trying to engage all kinds, even those involved in conflict (perhaps especially those involved in conflict).

    And even beyond that there are plenty of people involved in/vote for Sinn Fein who have had nothing to do with paramilitary activities and are interested in Sinn Fein for other reasons.
    I don't want to deny those who supported the IRA of a peaceful political outlet, I want you and others to respect the right of myself and others who think like me to not vote for the party because there are self acknowledged ex-terrorists within their ranks and leadership.

    It's not about denying their freedom to stand for election but our right to pour scour on them and reveal their past to people who may not be aware.


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  • #697
    Resonator75
    Closed Accounts Posts: 258 ✭✭Resonator75


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    Whether or not a person is willing to vote for a party containing ex-terrorists is a personal mater, whether or not your conscience would be affected by ticking that box.

    My grandfather was a total FFer during the civil war, did he vote for FF when it contained ex-terrorists? No doubt but I'm a different person to my grandfather, it's daft to make a comparison.


    I don't want to deny those who supported the IRA of a peaceful political outlet, I want you and others to respect the right of myself and others who think like me to not vote for the party because there are self acknowledged ex-terrorists within their ranks and leadership.

    It's not about denying their freedom to stand for election but our right to pour scour on them and reveal their past to people who may not be aware.

    The pure arrogance of you supposing to enlighten the world about X parties past. This stuff has been rolling on for a long time now.

    Would you ever get over your self.

    Night night, its been fun.


  • #698
    bumper234
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,250 ✭✭✭✭bumper234


    Nodin wrote: »
    *sigh

    It's fairly evident certain folk have jumped on this without doing the reading. He planted the bomb the night before. While leaving the area next day he was arrested by the Gardaí and detained in custody. Two hours later the radio detonated bomb was set off.

    You're right, my apologies i had forgotten all of the details, McMahon was arrested 70 miles away after planting the bomb the night before. It was left to another (un-named) brave volunteer to watch those children board the boat and callously push the button to detonate the device blowing them to bits.


  • #699
    Valetta
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,611 ✭✭✭Valetta


    bumper234 wrote: »
    You're right, my apologies i had forgotten all of the details, McMahon was arrested 70 miles away after planting the bomb the night before. It was left to another (un-named) brave volunteer to watch those children board the boat and callously push the button to detonate the device blowing them to bits.

    They were brave soldiers don't you know, fighting a war on the beaches of Sligo. :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

    I voted this morning. The sight of Sinn Fein candidates on both papers turned my stomach.

    It will be a cold day in hell before my pencil goes near any of them.


  • #700
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,069 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    bumper234 wrote: »
    You're right, my apologies i had forgotten all of the details, McMahon was arrested 70 miles away after planting the bomb the night before. It was left to another (un-named) brave volunteer to watch those children board the boat and callously push the button to detonate the device blowing them to bits.
    So he didn't know who was on the boat then.
    Thanks for confirming you understand this finally.


  • #701
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,069 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    Valetta wrote: »
    They were brave soldiers don't you know, fighting a war on the beaches of Sligo. :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:
    If ex-terrorists are fair game, why not ex-British army commanders?


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  • #702
    Valetta
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,611 ✭✭✭Valetta


    Dan_Solo wrote: »
    If ex-terrorists are fair game, why not ex-British army commanders?

    Fair game for what?


  • #703
    bumper234
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,250 ✭✭✭✭bumper234


    Dan_Solo wrote: »
    So he didn't know who was on the boat then.
    Thanks for confirming you understand this finally.

    Oh he knew there would be kids on the boat, had probably been casing the place for a week before and knew EXACTLY who got on the boat every morning for the fishing trips.


  • #704
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,069 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    bumper234 wrote: »
    Oh he knew.... had probably
    Definitive statement followed by probability as evidence.
    Neat trick.


  • #705
    bumper234
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,250 ✭✭✭✭bumper234


    Dan_Solo wrote: »
    Definitive statement followed by probability as evidence.
    Neat trick.

    Trying to cover up the scummy cold blooded killing of a couple of kids, classy :rolleyes:


  • #706
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,069 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    Valetta wrote: »
    Fair game for what?

    Smear campaign or bombing, depending on the circumstances.


  • #707
    strettyend
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37 ✭strettyend


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    Bill Gates. But I don't see what that has to do with me being a graduate.

    So we should have 40% tax for people over 50k? That's less than we have now.

    A tiny percentage of people in Ireland earn over a million, they probably all know each others names, you could fit them all into one room and SF claim they are going to raise 800,000,000 euros of tax revenue out of them. Bonkers, even if they did stay and pay it.

    Figures for what?

    The very wealthy can absorb cuts, charges, etc etc. The very poor in this country are living from day to day where one more cut could put them overboard. Even a graduate like you could understand that no?


  • #708
    mickydoomsux
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,287 ✭✭✭mickydoomsux


    Dan_Solo wrote: »
    So he didn't know who was on the boat then.
    Thanks for confirming you understand this finally.

    You and every other SF/IRA apologist are sick in the head.

    Arguing semantics to justify murder. As someone else said, it sickens me to my stomach to see SF candidates on a ballot paper.


  • #709
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,069 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    bumper234 wrote: »
    Trying to cover up the scummy cold blooded killing of a couple of kids, classy :rolleyes:
    Trying to state something as a fact because of a possibility.
    Classy.:rolleyes:


  • #710
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,069 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    mickydoomsux wrote: »
    You and every other SF/IRA apologist are sick in the head.

    Arguing semantics to justify murder. As someone else said, it sickens me to my stomach to see SF candidates on a ballot paper.
    How is "was" and "might have been" a matter of semantics?
    Or do you simply not care what any word written here actually means? :rolleyes:


  • #711
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »

    SF have confessed terrorists working in the party, that is simply unacceptable for me.


    I challenge you to name one member of SF who has confessed to being a 'terrorist'.

    Please back it up with quotes.


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  • #712
    bumper234
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,250 ✭✭✭✭bumper234


    Dan_Solo wrote: »
    Trying to state something as a fact because of a possibility.
    Classy.:rolleyes:

    Here is a few facts

    The IRA planted a bomb on a boat.

    The IRA detonated that bomb blowing two young children to bits.

    The man that planted that bomb is now canvassing for for a sinn fein candidate in the European elections.


    Hopefully the highlighting of this convicted child killers association with sinn fein will stop people from voting for them.


  • #713
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,069 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    bumper234 wrote: »
    Here is a few facts

    The IRA planted a bomb on a boat.

    The IRA detonated that bomb blowing two young children to bits.

    The man that planted that bomb is now canvassing for for a sinn fein candidate in the European elections.
    Good. So you now fully admit you have no idea whether he knew who was on the boat or not.
    Your honesty is appreciated.


  • #714
    Chips Lovell
    Moderators, Politics Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,279 Mod ✭✭✭✭Chips Lovell


    So now nobody in Sinn Fein was ever in the IRA? This is what makes these debates so ridiculous


  • #715
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    bumper234 wrote: »


    Hopefully the highlighting of this convicted child killers association with sinn fein will stop people from voting for them.

    To achieve what exactly? Justice (it has already been served) Revenge? Bring them back maybe?

    What could pushing these people, who clearly wish to contribute to the democratic process, back into the cold possibly achieve?


  • #716
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »
    So now nobody in Sinn Fein was ever in the IRA? This is what makes these debates so ridiculous

    Who said that?

    I asked the poster to produce a quote where a member of SF confesses to being a 'terrorist'.


  • #717
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,069 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »
    So now nobody in Sinn Fein was ever in the IRA? This is what makes these debates so ridiculous
    Lying about what people have posted here is what makes these debates so ridiculous.
    Can you back up that claim with a quote? Didn't think so.


  • #718
    Chips Lovell
    Moderators, Politics Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,279 Mod ✭✭✭✭Chips Lovell


    Ah, so you're claiming the IRA weren't terrorists. If you want to engage in those kind of semantic acrobatics fine.


  • #719
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »
    Ah, so you're claiming the IRA weren't terrorists. If you want to engage in those kind of semantic acrobatics fine.

    I think you'll find that in the absence of a quote from a member of SF confessing to being a 'terrorist' that the semantics belong to yourself and Iwasfrozen.

    Sure, how would they have negotiated with the British if they were 'terrorists', everybody knows the British NEVER talk to 'terrorists'. :rolleyes:


  • #720
    LuckyLloyd
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 36,963 ✭✭✭✭LuckyLloyd


    Do the moral outrage brigade grow tired at any point? Despite using terms like 'murder' and 'scumbags' etc at every opportunity for twenty years Sinn Feinn have kept gradually doing their work on the ground and building their support base. At what point will you concede that they are a legitamite political entity and the actual best way to stall their progress would be to fully engage with them as such?

    The way things are going, you'll be bleating about atrocities as they are forming part of a government in the south.


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  • #721
    bumper234
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,250 ✭✭✭✭bumper234


    Dan_Solo wrote: »
    Good. So you now fully admit you have no idea whether he knew who was on the boat or not.
    Your honesty is appreciated.


    http://saoirse32.dreamwidth.org/2009/08/12/
    When building his deadly device, McMahon used a radio controlled detonator instead of a timer so the IRA could guarantee that Mountbatten was aboard the 30ft Shadow V vessel when the bomb went off.

    McMahon handed over the remote control to another IRA man who would keep watch over Donegal Bay and press the button once the boat made its way out of the harbour. Oblivious of the capture of his two comrades a third IRA man kept vigil above Mullaghmore waiting for the Shadow V to leave harbour.

    That IRA man would have seen the six passengers aboard the boat as well as his intended target.
    The IRA had been keeping the Shadow V, which was moored in the quaint harbour in Mullaghmore, Co Sligo, under surveillance, knowing that Mountbatten holidayed there every year.

    They knew he regularly went out on his boat to haul lobster pots. On many occasions, he also brought local children out for the spin.


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