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Convicted child killer canvassing for sinn fein[Mod warning-First Post]

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Comments

  • #662
    Iwasfrozen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    Mrs W wrote: »
    If it was your mother would you forget it so easy?? And what about Paul Quinn?
    I have no respect for people who have anything to with, or stand for **** like this and that is why I will not vote for them

    Well said. I think it's a great pity people are all too willing to forget SF's murderous past.


  • #663
    Resonator75
    Closed Accounts Posts: 258 ✭✭Resonator75


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »

    So excluding other taxes we pay in the real world (i.e VAT) you actually want a person earning 50k or more to pay less tax than they are now?


    Yep I do , because I believe we are all taxed to death as a whole, rich and poor.

    I want a more balanced tax regime for all of us that does not require USC, water charges, road tolls blah blah blah.

    I just want to see a fair and even ,transparent system applied to all of us.

    And the more wealthy must pay more. Peeps on over 100G. Clear enough???

    And as I said to you posts ago that anyone on over 50 Grand at moment is not rich but basically a mid earner. Over a 100 grand, you are a high earner.

    Do you believe the current system of taxation is popper? If not what would you like changed?

    AND MOST OF ALL OUR MONEY SHOULD BE WELL SPENT!!!! WE ALL AGREE ON THIS??


  • #664
    Resonator75
    Closed Accounts Posts: 258 ✭✭Resonator75


    Mrs W wrote: »
    If it was your mother would you forget it so easy?? And what about Paul Quinn?
    I have no respect for people who have anything to with, or stand for **** like this and that is why I will not vote for them

    OK, sure let all sides never forget anything and we can all kill each other for ever and ever. Thats what will happen when you go that way.Happy?


  • #665
    fergus1001
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,613 ✭✭✭fergus1001


    As said before every political party has blood on their hands why dont we bring up the genocide of protestant people in cork back in the day or Michael Collins or our beloved develara all had blood on their shirts


    I know the crime in question is inexcusable not in the slightest but I get annoyed when people bash the shinners for going the political route

    Do you want the north torn to bits again? Seems like thats what some people are suggesting

    Come up out of the bog for air


  • #666
    Iwasfrozen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    Resonator75 wrote: »
    Yep I do , because I believe we are all taxed to death as a whole, rich and poor.

    I want a more balanced tax regime for all of us that does not require USC, water charges, road tolls blah blah blah.

    I just want to see a fair and even ,transparent system applied to all of us.

    And the more wealthy must pay more. Peeps on over 100G. Clear enough???

    And Ias I said to you posts ago that anyone on over 50 Grand at moment is not rich but basically a mid earner. Over a 100 grand, you are a high earner.

    Do you believe the current system of taxation is popper? If not what would you like changed?
    The money to do what you're asking doesn't exist. The vast majority of the governments funds come from the middle class, you simply won't make up enough money from taxing people over 100k to make up giving the middle class a tax break.


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  • #667
    Da Shins Kelly
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,047 ✭✭✭Da Shins Kelly


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    Well said. I think it's a great pity people are all too willing to forget SF's murderous past.

    I don't think that anyone is so much "forgetting" it, as just accepting it and moving on. The gun has always been part of Irish politics, way back to the birth of the state. Almost every political party has a "murderous past". But there has to come a time where we move on. That's what the peace process is supposed to be about. Or are we going to just continue to drag things backwards? I mean, people were complaining when the IRA were active that those involved wouldn't put down the gun and try politics. Now that they're doing that, everyone is still complaining.


  • #668
    Iwasfrozen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    fergus1001 wrote: »
    As said before every political party has blood on their hands why dont we bring up the genocide of protestant people in cork back in the day or Michael Collins or our beloved develara all had blood on their shirts


    I know the crime in question is inexcusable not in the slightest but I get annoyed when people bash the shinners for going the political route

    Do you want the north torn to bits again? Seems like thats what some people are suggesting

    Come up out of the bog for air
    Stupid analogy, the people who took part in the war of independence are no longer alive.

    SF have confessed terrorists working openly in their party.


  • #669
    Iwasfrozen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    Da Shins Kelly wrote: »
    I don't think that anyone is so much "forgetting" it, as just accepting it and moving on. The gun has always been part of Irish politics, way back to the birth of the state. Almost every political party has a "murderous past". But there has to come a time where we move on. That's what the peace process is supposed to be about. Or are we going to just continue to drag things backwards? I mean, people were complaining when the IRA were active that those involved wouldn't put down the gun and try politics. Now that they're doing that, everyone is still complaining.
    Again it's a stupid analogy because the people who took part in the war of independence are no longer alive.

    SF have confessed terrorists working in the party, that is simply unacceptable for me.


  • #670
    Resonator75
    Closed Accounts Posts: 258 ✭✭Resonator75


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    The money to do what you're asking doesn't exist. The vast majority of the governments funds come from the middle class, you simply won't make up enough money from taxing people over 100k to make up giving the middle class a tax break.

    Balls, the vast majority of tax comes from every day spend we all contribute to- VAT, Food, Booze, fags, fuel, etc, never mind crucifying low earning PAYE workers

    Get your head out of your party brochure


  • #671
    Resonator75
    Closed Accounts Posts: 258 ✭✭Resonator75


    Da Shins Kelly wrote: »
    I don't think that anyone is so much "forgetting" it, as just accepting it and moving on. The gun has always been part of Irish politics, way back to the birth of the state. Almost every political party has a "murderous past". But there has to come a time where we move on. That's what the peace process is supposed to be about. Or are we going to just continue to drag things backwards? I mean, people were complaining when the IRA were active that those involved wouldn't put down the gun and try politics. Now that they're doing that, everyone is still complaining.

    Quoted for Truth.


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  • #672
    Iwasfrozen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    Resonator75 wrote: »
    Balls, the vast majority of tax comes from every day spend we all contribute to- VAT, Food, Booze, fags, fuel, etc, never mind crucifying low earning PAYE workers

    Get your head out of your party brochure
    lol no, the majority of tax revenue comes from income tax from middle and working class families. Those earning over 100k a year aren't numerous enough to pick up the slack for a tax drop for the first two classes.

    This is why people say SF are economically illiterate.


  • #673
    Resonator75
    Closed Accounts Posts: 258 ✭✭Resonator75


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    Again it's a stupid analogy because the people who took part in the war of independence are no longer alive.

    SF have confessed terrorists working in the party, that is simply unacceptable for me.

    You are the one that sounds like a violent militant unable to leave the past behind by the way.

    BTW- those German politicians, you must think they are all Jew killing Nazi Bastards by your twisted logic???


  • #674
    Resonator75
    Closed Accounts Posts: 258 ✭✭Resonator75


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    lol no, the majority of tax revenue comes from income tax from middle and working class families. Those earning over 100k a year aren't numerous enough to pick up the slack for a tax drop for the first two classes.

    This is why people say SF are economically illiterate.


    Hay man, I am economically illiterate. Im just throwing numbers around the internet drunk. But you get the gist of what Im saying, well you dont I suppose. Id love to meet you face to face and talk about this.


  • #675
    Iwasfrozen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    Resonator75 wrote: »
    You are the one that sounds like a violent militant unable to leave the past behind by the way.

    BTW- those German politicians, you must think they are all Jew killing Nazi Bastards by your twisted logic???
    I'm not a militant.

    I don't see why I should forgive them of their crimes. Yes, they may have done their time and may walk the streets but I am not compelled to vote for them.

    If there were still high profile SS working for the CDU you could make that analogy but as things stand i'm afraid it doesn't hold up.


  • #676
    Iwasfrozen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    Resonator75 wrote: »
    Hay man, I am economically illiterate. Im just throwing numbers around the internet drunk. But you get the gist of what Im saying, well you dont I suppose. Id love to meet you face to face and talk about this.
    I'll drink to that.


  • #677
    Resonator75
    Closed Accounts Posts: 258 ✭✭Resonator75


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    lol no, the majority of tax revenue comes from income tax from middle and working class families. Those earning over 100k a year aren't numerous enough to pick up the slack for a tax drop for the first two classes.

    This is why people say SF are economically illiterate.

    So therefore you admit that lower to mid earners are paying to much tax.

    I knew we would reach an agreement.


  • #678
    Resonator75
    Closed Accounts Posts: 258 ✭✭Resonator75


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    I'm not a militant.

    I don't see why I should forgive them of their crimes. Yes, they may have done their time and may walk the streets but I am not compelled to vote for them.

    If there were still high profile SS working for the CDU you could make that analogy but as things stand i'm afraid it doesn't hold up.

    "The weak can never forgive. Forgiveness is the attribute of the strong."


  • #679
    fergus1001
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,613 ✭✭✭fergus1001


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    Stupid analogy, the people who took part in the war of independence are no longer alive.

    SF have confessed terrorists working openly in their party.

    And they still got elected directly after fighting the British and murdering each other so hows it stupid?

    Fine play it your way let them go dig up their stock piles and go back to the 1970/80/90's how would that go down?

    And just to note I'm not affiliated with any party they can all go suck a lemon as far as im concerned.


  • #680
    Iwasfrozen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    Resonator75 wrote: »
    So therefore you admit that lower to mid earners are paying to much tax.

    I knew we would reach an agreement.
    No, the majority of government tax revenues comes from lower and middle class earners, that doesn't mean they are paying too much they're just more numerous.


  • #681
    Resonator75
    Closed Accounts Posts: 258 ✭✭Resonator75


    So in your opinion is the current tax burden balanced correctly?


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  • #682
    Da Shins Kelly
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,047 ✭✭✭Da Shins Kelly


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    Again it's a stupid analogy because the people who took part in the war of independence are no longer alive.

    SF have confessed terrorists working in the party, that is simply unacceptable for me.

    How is it a stupid analogy though? The country was born out of violence and many figures of Irish history who surely committed crimes of violence are considered heroes today. In the past people went out and voted for people who were involved in acts of violence. Our Dáil has been made up of people who were actively involved in armed struggles before, and not even that long ago. Today's terrorist is tomorrow's statesman.

    If anything can be learned from our history it's the importance of accepting the past and moving on. That is what the peace process is about. It's supposed to be trying to engage former hard line paramilitaries politically. That's how we make progress, not with constant recrimination. Continuously uprooting every crime that ever happened and using it as political leverage is just not conducive to progress. There are even unionists in the north, who would have previously never considered sitting down with Sinn Fein, who realize that.


  • #683
    Resonator75
    Closed Accounts Posts: 258 ✭✭Resonator75


    Da Shins Kelly wrote: »
    How is it a stupid analogy though? The country was born out of violence and many figures of Irish history who surely committed crimes of violence are considered heroes today. In the past people went out and voted for people who were involved in acts of violence. Our Dáil has been made up of people who were actively involved in armed struggles before, and not even that long ago. Today's terrorist is tomorrow's statesman.

    If anything can be learned from our history it's the importance of accepting the past and moving on. That is what the peace process is about. It's supposed to be trying to engage former hard line paramilitaries politically. That's how we make progress, not with constant recrimination. Continuously uprooting every crime that ever happened and using it as political leverage is just not conducive to progress. There are even unionists in the north, who would have previously never considered sitting down with Sinn Fein, who realize that.

    Theyzz hatezzz the shinneerzzz....

    We got more hardcore unionists down here than the north ever knew :(


  • #684
    Iwasfrozen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    Da Shins Kelly wrote: »
    How is it a stupid analogy though? The country was born out of violence and many figures of Irish history who surely committed crimes of violence are considered heroes today. In the past people went out and voted for people who were involved in acts of violence. Our Dáil has been made up of people who were actively involved in armed struggles before, and not even that long ago. Today's terrorist is tomorrow's statesman.

    If anything can be learned from our history it's the importance of accepting the past and moving on. That is what the peace process is about. It's supposed to be trying to engage former hard line paramilitaries politically. That's how we make progress, not with constant recrimination. Continuously uprooting every crime that ever happened and using it as political leverage is just not conducive to progress. There are even unionists in the north, who would have previously never considered sitting down with Sinn Fein, who realize that.

    I'm not voting for the killers of yesterday though, when I cast a vote for FG I do so with the knowledge that no one involved in the civil war is still alive and working with the party.

    SF on the other hand have confessed ex-terrorists working within their ranks, in their party leadership. Were SF to purge itself of all previous terrorists I would regard them in the same light as FF or FG but until then I and many other people will never consider voting for them.
    Resonator75 wrote: »
    So in your opinion is the current tax burden balanced correctly?
    I'd rather see a tax break for high earners to encourage growth and bring us in line with the EU average but generally I'm happy enough with current tax levels.


  • #685
    Da Shins Kelly
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,047 ✭✭✭Da Shins Kelly


    I mean, I understand if someone doesn't want to vote Sinn Fein. Vote whatever way you want, I couldn't care less. I just find this constant harking back to crimes committed 30-odd years ago and using it as a brush to tarnish all of Sinn Fein with a bit tiresome.


  • #686
    Resonator75
    Closed Accounts Posts: 258 ✭✭Resonator75


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    I'm not voting for the killers of yesterday though, when I cast a vote for FG I do so with the knowledge that no one involved in the civil war is still alive and working with the party.

    What a pathetic cop out...You can do better than that Im sure?


  • #687
    fergus1001
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,613 ✭✭✭fergus1001


    Resonator75 wrote: »
    Theyzz hatezzz the shinneerzzz....

    We got more hardcore unionists down here than the north ever knew :(

    Nah we just have people afraid of change and the inclusion of everyone in society

    I dont personaly support the shinners policies but I do recognize that Gerry Adams and Martin Mc Guinness did put their lives on the line to bring the Ira to the negotiation table and bring the peace that people now a few years later take for granted

    Putting the past behind us is a hard pill to swallow but it is for the greater good


  • #688
    Resonator75
    Closed Accounts Posts: 258 ✭✭Resonator75


    fergus1001 wrote: »
    Nah we just have people afraid of change and the inclusion of everyone in society

    I dont personaly support the shinners policies but I do recognize that Gerry Adams and Martin Mc Guinness did put their lives on the line to bring the Ira to the negotiation table and bring the peace that people now a few years later take for granted

    Putting the past behind us is a hard pill to swallow but it is for the greater good

    This is it, what ever you think about the politicos up north on both sides, they put their lives on the line for their beliefs , love them or hate them.
    What do we have? Career pension surfers.
    I respect Paisley as much as I respect Adams, willing to die for their stance. That is to be respected.

    Now, Enda Kenny, Bertie Ahern.......


  • #689
    Iwasfrozen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    Da Shins Kelly wrote: »
    I mean, I understand if someone doesn't want to vote Sinn Fein. Vote whatever way you want, I couldn't care less. I just find this constant harking back to crimes committed 30-odd years ago and using it as a brush to tarnish all of Sinn Fein with a bit tiresome.
    Do you not consider the past of SF party members to be a real issue for many people?

    Don't you see why we have these hesitations even if you don't agree with them?


  • #690
    Resonator75
    Closed Accounts Posts: 258 ✭✭Resonator75


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    Do you not consider the past of SF party members to be a real issue for many people?


    Iwasfrozen,

    Confirm or deny you are a member of Young Fine Gael please


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  • #691
    Da Shins Kelly
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,047 ✭✭✭Da Shins Kelly


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    I'm not voting for the killers of yesterday though, when I cast a vote for FG I do so with the knowledge that no one involved in the civil war is still alive and working with the party.

    That's kind of the beauty of learning to move on though, isn't it? I mean, those who came before us more than likely voted for known killers (in fact I'm sure we can be fairly certain they did). That's how we've ended up with the FF/FG/Labour monopoly on politics. People just decided to get on with it. We all know the murky pasts of Fine Gael and Fianna Fáil and the Labour Party, but we still choose to accept it and move on. I mean, it's not exactly ancient history when FF and FG were in the same position Sinn Fein are in - fresh out of conflict, a lot of blood spilled, branded terrorists, etc. And look what they've evolved into. How did that happen? People moved on.
    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    SF on the other hand have confessed ex-terrorists working within their ranks, in their party leadership. Were SF to purge itself of all previous terrorists I would regard them in the same light as FF or FG but until then I and many other people will never consider voting for them.

    Sinn Fein provides a political outlet for those who were involved in paramilitary activities. It's the political outlet that many for years were urging IRA members to get involved with in order to open dialogue. Now that they're doing that, it's still not enough. If they don't have that outlet, then where do they go? Back to how it was before, with Sinn Fein being censored or some such? Cos that worked out so well. We're supposed to be trying to engage all kinds, even those involved in conflict (perhaps especially those involved in conflict).

    And even beyond that there are plenty of people involved in/vote for Sinn Fein who have had nothing to do with paramilitary activities and are interested in Sinn Fein for other reasons.


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