Convicted child killer canvassing for sinn fein[Mod warning-First Post]

strettyend · 23-05-2014 12:27AM

Resonator75 wrote: »

The people who are gonna vote for SF are the people who have no one left to vote for as they have been repeated betrayed by the main parties.

The people that cannot see this are the people that have not properly been affected by the recession. There is a more than a touch of 'Let them eat cake' off your post.

Cuts are fine with me but they must be seen to be fair AND ACTUALLY BE FAIR.

Right now we have the poorest, weakest and sickest taking ALL the bloody hits so that joker Enda can keep all his buddies and in crowed in the clover while he tells us how great he is for making tough decisions, and then fuks off to Mayo on a massive pension.

THAT'S WHY SF ARE RISING. OPEN YOUR EYES.

SPOT ON.

Iwasfrozen · 23-05-2014 12:35AM

Resonator75 wrote: »

The people who are gonna vote for SF are the people who have no one left to vote for as they have been repeated betrayed by the main parties.

The people that cannot see this are the people that have not properly been affected by the recession. There is a more than a touch of 'Let them eat cake' off your post.

Cuts are fine with me but they must be seen to be fair AND ACTUALLY BE FAIR.

Right now we have the poorest, weakest and sickest taking ALL the bloody hits so that joker Enda can keep all his buddies and in crowed in the clover while he tells us how great he is for making tough decisions, and then fuks off to Mayo on a massive pension.

THAT'S WHY SF ARE RISING. OPEN YOUR EYES.

Ireland has one of the most progressive tax systems in the EU, hit the rich any harder and you will actually hurt growth.

If anything we should have tax breaks for the wealthy to bring us more into line with the EU average.

glenmax · 23-05-2014 12:36AM

vitani wrote: »

Ah, here. I'm far from perfect myself but I'm a long way away from killing somebody.

Personally, my biggest issue with SF though is that their policies, particularly their economic policies, don't make sense.

ok what is their economic policies b4 i go to vote ...

Da Shins Kelly · 23-05-2014 12:39AM

rosser44 wrote: »

Do tell me more about the lies and untrue statements which fill the article in question?

Yes the indo has become a tabloid rag but they are on the money here.

The people of Ireland have a right to know about calibre of people who are part of the parties which they vote for.

I hope they do a story on any dodgy or criminal canvassers who have the support of any other group or party too

I never said it was "lies or untrue". But it's a crime that happened 35 years ago and a crime for which the individual in question has already done his time for. This is clearly a last ditch attempt by the Independent to sway the vote away from Sinn Fein by consistently uprooting the past, as they've been doing for the last few weeks now. I would imagine that most people in the country are aware of the fact that there are members of Sinn Fein who were involved in with the IRA, there's been no secret about that, but you'd wonder what the peace process was ever about if this stuff is just going to be dug up time and again and used as political leverage. There was a time when everyone was demanding that IRA members put down the gun and try to find solutions through political means. Now that those same people are doing that and getting involved in politics, it's still not good enough. The gun has always been a part of Irish politics, it just so happens that what we're dealing with in the current Sinn Fein party is more recent history. We can try to move forward and try to get on with it, or we can keep taking steps backwards like this, and there are already enough people in this country who would be more than happy to drag things back if they could.

bajer101 · 23-05-2014 12:44AM

Again, I am guilty of jumping into a thread without reading it all - but wtf has killing a child got to do with it? All the major parties up for election have killed people. FF killed people. FG killed people. Labour (Social Democrats) killed people. At what point do you let it go and look forward? Lord Mountbatten - ffs. That's ancient history, move on.

DubVelo · 23-05-2014 12:45AM

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Ireland has one of the most progressive tax systems in the EU, hit the rich any harder and you will actually hurt growth.

If anything we should have tax breaks for the wealthy to bring us more into line with the EU average.

Why? Why will you hurt growth?

Tax breaks? The wealth/poverty divide is already dramatically increasing. Why would we want more of that?

Resonator75 · 23-05-2014 12:47AM

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Ireland has one of the most progressive tax systems in the EU, hit the rich any harder and you will actually hurt growth.

If anything we should have tax breaks for the wealthy to bring us more into line with the EU average.

So I earn €36,400 and am taxed as a high earner.

The rich have not been hit at all, get over your self.

Fuel, VAT, Insurance...... The rich love this little cess pit.

And btw, Im not talking about the bloody rich and their rights, Im talking about whats best for the country.

Why you obsessing about tax? Got a few bob have we? Good for you.

Im not socialist but the system is rigged against the common PAYE worker. Dont you dare winge to me about the bloody millionaires.

Happyman42 · 23-05-2014 12:48AM

Da Shins Kelly wrote: »

I never said it was "lies or untrue". But it's a crime that happened 35 years ago and a crime for which the individual in question has already done his time for. This is clearly a last ditch attempt by the Independent to sway the vote away from Sinn Fein by consistently uprooting the past, as they've been doing for the last few weeks now. I would imagine that most people in the country are aware of the fact that there are members of Sinn Fein who were involved in with the IRA, there's been no secret about that, but you'd wonder what the peace process was ever about if this stuff is just going to be dug up time and again and used as political leverage. There was a time when everyone was demanding that IRA members put down the gun and try to find solutions through political means. Now that those same people are doing that and getting involved in politics, it's still not good enough. The gun has always been a part of Irish politics, it just so happens that what we're dealing with in the current Sinn Fein party is more recent history. We can try to move forward and try to get on with it, or we can keep taking steps backwards like this, and there are already enough people in this country who would be more than happy to drag things back if they could.

And he has been involved publicly in previous elections.

Folk are being played and they are too stupid and blinkered to see it. Same as the FG mugs where played today with Shatter's magnanimous gesture...timed to perfection for the serfs.

Iwasfrozen · 23-05-2014 12:51AM

DubVelo wrote: »

Why? Why will you hurt growth?

Tax breaks? The wealth/poverty divide is already dramatically increasing. Why would we want more of that?

The rich, the people with resources, are the people capable of creating employment, tax the rich further and you risk disincentivising job growth.

To bring us more into line with the EU average. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Income_tax_in_European_countries

Iwasfrozen · 23-05-2014 12:53AM

Resonator75 wrote: »

So I earn €36,400 and am taxed as a high earner.

The rich have not been hit at all, get over your self.

Fuel, VAT, Insurance...... The rich love this little cess pit.

And btw, Im not talking about the bloody rich and their rights, Im talking about whats best for the country.

Why you obsessing about tax? Got a few bob have we? Good for you.

Im not socialist but the system is rigged against the common PAYE worker. Dont you dare winge to me about the bloody millionaires.

Nope, I'm only a humble graduate but I'm smart enough to know our problems won't be solved by taxing "the rich".

What do you define as rich anyway? Over what income level?

Resonator75 · 23-05-2014 12:59AM

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Nope, I'm only a humble graduate but I'm smart enough to know our problems won't be solved by taxing "the rich".

What do you define as rich anyway? Over what income level?

You wont catch me with that student type. Material richness is relative.

Its a joke that the higher rate of tax kick sin at such low level.

Anyone on over 50 G's a year is doing OK (ish) and its around there there higher tax rate should kick in.

As for the 'rich rich' good on them, I hope I'm rich some day and I dont want to take or tax all their money but we are all in this as a country together.

Fairness is what I want. You and I know the wealthy pay fuk all real tax, there is a myriad way of avoiding it.

If I earnt a million a year , Id gladly put up with a 50% tax rate. Thats off the top of my little head to show you where Im coming from.

Iwasfrozen · 23-05-2014 01:02AM

Resonator75 wrote: »

You wont catch me with that student type. Material richness is relative.

Its a joke that the higher rate of tax kick sin at such low level.

Anyone on over 50 G's a year is doing OK (ish) and its around there there higher tax rate should kick in.

As for the 'rich rich' good on them, I hope I'm rich some day and I dont want to take or tax all their money but we are all in this as a country together.

Fairness is what I want. You and I know the wealthy pay fuk all real tax, there is a myriad way of avoiding it.

If I earnt a million a year , Id gladly put up with a 50% tax rate. Thats off the top of my little head to show you where Im coming from.

What do you mean material richness is relative? I'm not rich if that's what you're getting at.

What tax rate should people face at 50k?

How many people do you think earning a million or more a year in Ireland?

Seaneh · 23-05-2014 01:05AM

I thought the word "shinnerbot" was banned? why has it been used approx 30 times in this thread?

DubVelo · 23-05-2014 01:07AM

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

The rich, the people with resources, are the people capable of creating employment, tax the rich further and you risk disincentivising job growth.

Is this from the same doctrine that says 'liberalise the market (like banking) and everything will be flowers and sparkles and rainbows like magic'?

Resonator75 · 23-05-2014 01:10AM

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

What do you mean material richness is relative? I'm not rich if that's what you're getting at.

What tax rate should people face at 50k?

How many people do you think earning a million or more a year in Ireland?

OK, Ill bite-

Bill Gates V Dennis O Brien - Who is the rich man?

Id like to see a lot of re-balancing of VAT and Fuel tax etc for a start so its quite elastic but supposing income tax was the only tax you paid full stop then I reckon if you earn 50 grand you should take home 30 ish.

If you earn 20 grand you should take home 18 grand ish.

I cant be arsed to do you googleing for you but there are fukloads of people in Ireland on over a million, Im sure you can enlighten me....

Can I have your figures now?

Da Shins Kelly · 23-05-2014 01:11AM

Seaneh wrote: »

I thought the word "shinnerbot" was banned? why has it been used approx 30 times in this thread?

People are running out of things to say, or didn't have very much to say to begin with.

Iwasfrozen · 23-05-2014 01:12AM

DubVelo wrote: »

Is this from the same doctrine that says 'liberalise the market (like banking) and everything will be flowers and sparkles and rainbows like magic'?

No, because no ideology says that.

Mrs W · 23-05-2014 01:13AM

Resonator75 wrote: »

The people who are gonna vote for SF are the people who have no one left to vote for as they have been repeated betrayed by the main parties.

The people that cannot see this are the people that have not properly been affected by the recession. There is a more than a touch of 'Let them eat cake' off your post.

Cuts are fine with me but they must be seen to be fair AND ACTUALLY BE FAIR.

Right now we have the poorest, weakest and sickest taking ALL the bloody hits so that joker Enda can keep all his buddies and in crowed in the clover while he tells us how great he is for making tough decisions, and then fuks off to Mayo on a massive pension.

THAT'S WHY SF ARE RISING. OPEN YOUR EYES.

I am so with you on the cuts. I understand cuts need to be made, health is one place that it just needs to stop though. There's higher lines of management etc that needs to be cut but paying agency staff stupid money to pick their own hours. I'm sick of hearing about ambulances that take hours to come, people on trolleys for hours, medical cards being taken away from sick children is just absurd.

But no party jumps out at me as a fix for these things.

I live in Dundalk, the biggest town in Ireland and we have no hospital. Our only option is the overcrowded Drogheda. My own dad sat in it for 3 days on a trolley waiting for an operation before we took him out and sent him private.
We had that option but so many more don't. It's just not good enough

pO1Neil · 23-05-2014 01:15AM

The man did his time.

This is just another part of the blueshirts campaign to try & demonize the left. Disgraceful.

Resonator75 · 23-05-2014 01:16AM

Mrs W wrote: »

I am so with you on the cuts. I understand cuts need to be made, health is one place that it just needs to stop though. There's higher lines of management etc that needs to be cut but paying agency staff stupid money to pick their own hours. I'm sick of hearing about ambulances that take hours to come, people on trolleys for hours, medical cards being taken away from sick children is just absurd.

But no party jumps out at me as a fix for these things.

I live in Dundalk, the biggest town in Ireland and we have no hospital. Our only option is the overcrowded Drogheda. My own dad sat in it for 3 days on a trolley waiting for an operation before we took him out and sent him private.
We had that option but so many more don't. It's just not good enough

I agree with you completely. Have you ever thought about voting SF? Im serious. Vote for the other tribes is a vote for the same old same old.
SF may turn out just like them, who knows.
But what if they actually did right by the country? A chance is deserved,no?

Iwasfrozen · 23-05-2014 01:18AM

Resonator75 wrote: »

OK, Ill bite-

Bill Gates V Dennis O Brien - Who is the rich man?

Id like to see a lot of re-balancing of VAT and Fuel tax etc for a start so its quite elastic but supposing income tax was the only tax you paid full stop then I reckon if you earn 50 grand you should take home 30 ish.

If you earn 20 grand you should take home 18 grand ish.

I cant be arsed to do you googleing for you but there are fukloads of people in Ireland on over a million, Im sure you can enlighten me....

Can I have your figures now?

Bill Gates. But I don't see what that has to do with me being a graduate.

So we should have 40% tax for people over 50k? That's less than we have now.

A tiny percentage of people in Ireland earn over a million, they probably all know each others names, you could fit them all into one room and SF claim they are going to raise 800,000,000 euros of tax revenue out of them. Bonkers, even if they did stay and pay it.

Figures for what?

Mrs W · 23-05-2014 01:22AM

Resonator75 wrote: »

I agree with you completely. Have you ever thought about voting SF? Im serious. Vote for the other tribes is a vote for the same old same old.
SF may turn out just like them, who knows.
But what if they actually did right by the country? A chance is deserved,no?

No, I don't vote for terrorists or their supporters.
I've asked for back ups of they're figures but can't get anything I'd believe!

Resonator75 · 23-05-2014 01:26AM

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Bill Gates. But I don't see what that has to do with me being a graduate.

So we should have 40% tax for people over 50k? That's less than we have now.

A tiny percentage of people in Ireland earn over a million, they probably all know each others names, you could fit them all into one room and SF claim they are going to raise 800,000,000 euros of tax revenue out of them. Bonkers, even if they did stay and pay it.

Figures for what?

Are you an apprentice politician or what???

Bill Gates was an example of the idea of relative wealth. You cant see that then drop back a year or two.

I specifically said that hypothetically ,excluding any other taxes that we all pay in the real world (i.e. VAT) that these would be my approx figures. You ignore this to have a cheap retort.

There are plenty of quite rich in Ireland, good on them. Im no Marxist, I want the rich to be rich and successful, good one them, they DO power part of the economy. I dont want to eat the rich, but they do gotta pay a bit more.

Your a bit of a joke really arnt you? No answer I give you would not fail to gain some pithy retort.

If you want to debate then debate, dont keep picking away at abstractions.

pO1Neil · 23-05-2014 01:27AM

Mrs W wrote: »

No, I don't vote for terrorists or their supporters.
I've asked for back ups of they're figures but can't get anything I'd believe!

Most of our governments of the 20th century had terrorists in them.

Resonator75 · 23-05-2014 01:27AM

Mrs W wrote: »

No, I don't vote for terrorists or their supporters.
I've asked for back ups of they're figures but can't get anything I'd believe!

I support them. Am I a terrorist?

And by the way you live in a state that would not exist without 'Terrorists'

Mrs W · 23-05-2014 01:30AM

Resonator75 wrote: »

I support them. Am I a terrorist?

And by the way you live in a state that would not exist without 'Terrorists'

Do you support the murder of Paul Quinn? Jean McConville?

Resonator75 · 23-05-2014 01:31AM

Mrs W wrote: »

Do you support the murder of Paul Quinn? Jean McConville?

Oh F**K O****

the above is my initial response. I stand by it but you cannot keep throwing that woman's name around and using her as a weapon to win debates.

It was pure, disgusting murder what happened to Jean McConville.

Yeah she was killed by the IRA and they were a bunch of murdering bastards for doing it. War fooking sucks and terrible things are done. It was a war. I am not attempting to justify her killing. It is unjustifiable. Different times that you and me thankfully cannot imagine.

Do you expect me to condone **** like that just because I support modern day SF?

A line in the sand has been drawn. We are talking about the 21st century not 30 years ago.

Resonator75 · 23-05-2014 01:31AM

Seriously, thats all you can come up with at this stage?

Iwasfrozen · 23-05-2014 01:41AM

Resonator75 wrote: »

Are you an apprentice politician or what???

Bill Gates was an example of the idea of relative wealth. You cant see that then drop back a year or two.

I specifically said that hypothetically ,excluding any other taxes that we all pay in the real world (i.e. VAT) that these would be my approx figures. You ignore this to have a cheap retort.

There are plenty of quite rich in Ireland, good on them. Im no Marxist, I want the rich to be rich and successful, good one them, they DO power part of the economy. I dont want to eat the rich, but they do gotta pay a bit more.

Your a bit of a joke really arnt you? No answer I give you would not fail to gain some pithy retort.

If you want to debate then debate, dont keep picking away at abstractions.

I'm trying to debate you but you're not really giving me proper answers.

I get that but what has relative wealth got to do with me being a graduate?

So excluding other taxes we pay in the real world (i.e VAT) you actually want a person earning 50k or more to pay less tax than they are now? Because if a person earning 50k took home 30k then excluding VAT etc. that would be a 40% tax, less than we have now.

You still haven't cleared this up, what do you classify as "rich," what income level? And when you say they should pay more how much more? SF say they can raise 800 million from a wealth tax, this is bonkers.

Mrs W · 23-05-2014 01:45AM

Resonator75 wrote: »

Oh F**K O****

the above is my initial response. I stand by it but you cannot keep throwing that woman's name around and using her as a weapon to win debates.

It was pure, disgusting murder what happened to Jean McConville.

Yeah she was killed by the IRA and they were a bunch of murdering bastards for doing it. War fooking sucks and terrible things are done. It was a war. I am not attempting to justify her killing. It is unjustifiable. Different times that you and me thankfully cannot imagine.

Do you expect me to condone **** like that just because I support modern day SF?

A line in the sand has been drawn. We are talking about the 21st century not 30 years ago.

If it was your mother would you forget it so easy?? And what about Paul Quinn?
I have no respect for people who have anything to with, or stand for **** like this and that is why I will not vote for them

Convicted child killer canvassing for sinn fein[Mod warning-First Post]

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