Apprenticeships

The Diabolical Monocle · 22-05-2014 05:58PM #1

Is 4 years really necessary to qualify as a tradesperson.

Granted its a skill, it has to be learned. Surely 2 years would be enough, 1 in the school, maybe even 2, then on to a year (or 6 months if 2 years training in school option taken) as a trainee in a company, under the watchful eye of an experienced worker.

Carpenter · 22-05-2014 05:59PM

I think it should be 5 and not a day less

The Diabolical Monocle · 22-05-2014 06:02PM

Carpenter wrote: »

I think it should be 5 and not a day less

Carpenters always want an unreasonable number.

jellyboy · 22-05-2014 06:02PM

Bondage gimp takes a year ..

6months on the crash course..

p.s not a lot of sitting down afterwards though

kneemos · 22-05-2014 06:16PM

Anybody I've ever seen on an apprenticeship was doing everything except apprenticeship work.

AndyBoBandy · 22-05-2014 06:18PM

If anyone had 'learned' their trade in only 2 years, I certainly wouldn't let them near anything I was involved with.

SEPT 23 1989 · 22-05-2014 06:26PM

Apprenticeships seemed to be looked down upon in certain quarters in this country unlike Germany where they are valued greatly

AnonoBoy · 22-05-2014 06:39PM

I think 4 years is about right.

I don't want some dude messing around with the plumbing in my gaff unless he's been trained properly!

Riddle101 · 22-05-2014 07:11PM

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

Apprenticeships seemed to be looked down upon in certain quarters in this country unlike Germany where they are valued greatly

Australia as well.

salmocab · 22-05-2014 07:14PM

4 years is just about enough but it takes another 6 before you are really proficient. Even then you never stop learning.

Santa Cruz · 22-05-2014 07:14PM

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

Apprenticeships seemed to be looked down upon in certain quarters in this country unlike Germany where they are valued greatly

Get a nice permanent pensionable job on €25,000 a year. Then pay a €50 call out charge for the local plumber when the jacks is blocked

ryan101 · 22-05-2014 07:16PM

4 should be the min. for any trade, but it should be quality training not just time served lip service to some cowboy.

dodderangler · 22-05-2014 07:16PM

Bad enough there's lads out there with 10 years ruins who still can't do a fcukin thing right.
Cowboys ted. Flipping cowboys

crockholm · 22-05-2014 07:17PM

Over the years the amount of time spent on apprentichships has been reduced,way back when,it used to be 7 years-then up to about 2-3 generations ago it Went to 5 years and now it ranges between 3.5-4.5 years.

First you learn how to do things,then you learn how to do things fast enough(at the accecptable standard) to be profitable. In between there is problem solving solutions that need to be memorised and adapted for later Life.

I Think that I once read that there are only about 30 recognized trades in Ireland whereas in Germany there are over 200.

I would recommend to any newly-qualified tradesmen to take a journeyman period for about 2 years if possible.

kneemos · 22-05-2014 07:17PM

Santa Cruz wrote: »

Get a nice permanent pensionable job on €25,000 a year. Then pay a €50 call out charge for the local plumber when the jacks is blocked

What exactly is the call out charge for or how did it come about?

ryan101 · 22-05-2014 07:18PM

Santa Cruz wrote: »

Get a nice permanent pensionable job on €25,000 a year. Then pay a €50 call out charge for the local plumber when the jacks is blocked

You really don't know anything about plumbing do you ?

Santa Cruz · 22-05-2014 07:23PM

kneemos wrote: »

What exactly is the call out charge for or how did it come about?

I don't know how it started but its a minimum payment to cover the tradesman from timewasters. It's charged on top of any labour costs

Santa Cruz · 22-05-2014 07:24PM

ryan101 wrote: »

You really don't know anything about plumbing do you ?

More than you obviously

ryan101 · 22-05-2014 07:29PM

Santa Cruz wrote: »

More than you obviously

Explain.

22-05-2014 07:29PM

Years ago I knew an Apprentice Bricklayer who use to give our yard at being made learn fancy brick arches and so on which he reckoned he would never use in real life, yet he was never more proud when he build a fabulous fire place for a family member. Most apprentices are highly skilled it take years to be expert.

There are tones of Bricklaying apprentice's in London look at the Indeed website, they would be so sought after here yet in London there not very rated.

salmocab · 22-05-2014 07:29PM

Call out covers traveling to the job,plus usually a fixed amount of time say first half hour up to 2 hours, then if it turns out that its a non job as some times happens. A tradesman needs to get payed for his time as well as his knowledge and skills, also companies need to cover costs of specialist equipment and vans diesel insurance etc.

Santa Cruz · 22-05-2014 07:34PM

ryan101 wrote: »

Explain.

Why should I. You're the one that questioned my knowledge of plumbers? On what grounds.

ryan101 · 22-05-2014 07:38PM

Santa Cruz wrote: »

Why should I. You're the one that questioned my knowledge of plumbers? On what grounds.

Thought as much

22-05-2014 07:44PM

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

Apprenticeships seemed to be looked down upon in certain quarters in this country unlike Germany where they are valued greatly

Very old fashioned idea.

That's not true if you advertised for an apprentice on fas or what ever you would be over whelmed by the response especially if it was something that had potential good earning and you could emigrate with it.

The only problem with the trades is that they are like the 7 years of feast followed by 7 years of famine.

Santa Cruz · 22-05-2014 07:49PM

ryan101 wrote: »

Thought as much

Just proves my point thank you.

Call Me Jimmy · 22-05-2014 07:55PM

Plumb-off! Only way to settle it lads

Santa Cruz · 22-05-2014 07:57PM

Call Me Jimmy wrote: »

Plumb-off! Only way to settle it lads

Ball cocks at 50 (metric or imperial, challenger's choice)

Outkast_IRE · 22-05-2014 08:03PM

It took me over 5 years to get through my plumbing apprenticeship due to the backlog waiting for spots for phase 2, 4 and 6 with fas and colleges.

It was only towards the 5 year mark that i would call anyone competent and there is still plenty more to learn after that. Its a job where if you are not continuously learning then you are doing it wrong.

lintdrummer · 22-05-2014 08:04PM

The Diabolical Monocle wrote: »

Is 4 years really necessary to qualify as a tradesperson.

Granted its a skill, it has to be learned. Surely 2 years would be enough, 1 in the school, maybe even 2, then on to a year (or 6 months if 2 years training in school option taken) as a trainee in a company, under the watchful eye of an experienced worker.

I'm currently in an aircraft maintenance apprenticeship and I can assure you that after 4 years I will absolutely not have learned everything there is to know about aircraft maintenance. There's a huge amount of learning involved, from aerodynamics, physics, materials and hardware to legislation, engines and electronics. That's probably half of the course work topics. And we need to know it to the highest European standards. 75% pass mark in our exams and rightly so.
Then factor in learning the actual physical skills of the trade.
4 years is barely enough.

The Diabolical Monocle · 22-05-2014 08:24PM

lintdrummer wrote: »

I'm currently in an aircraft maintenance apprenticeship and I can assure you that after 4 years I will absolutely not have learned everything there is to know about aircraft maintenance. There's a huge amount of learning involved, from aerodynamics, physics, materials and hardware to legislation, engines and electronics. That's probably half of the course work topics. And we need to know it to the highest European standards. 75% pass mark in our exams and rightly so.
Then factor in learning the actual physical skills of the trade.
4 years is barely enough.

Aircraft maintenance might be a bit more involved/advanced.
Than say pluming or bricklaying.

HoggyRS · 22-05-2014 08:31PM

I think apprenticeships are being less looked down on now that they are less easy to get. I'm serving my time with a large contractor and most of the apprentices have spent time at 3rd level before starting out and a few of us actually have degrees. Schools will tell everyone to fill out the CAO and go to college no matter what, keep their own stats high but they should try help some young people to be getting apprenticeships rather than wasting their time with college courses which offer little realistic chance of decent employment.

lintdrummer wrote: »

I'm currently in an aircraft maintenance apprenticeship and I can assure you that after 4 years I will absolutely not have learned everything there is to know about aircraft maintenance. There's a huge amount of learning involved, from aerodynamics, physics, materials and hardware to legislation, engines and electronics. That's probably half of the course work topics. And we need to know it to the highest European standards. 75% pass mark in our exams and rightly so.
Then factor in learning the actual physical skills of the trade.
4 years is barely enough.

75% (or is it 70?) pass mark in all trades.

Apprenticeships

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