Begrudgery against people rising out of their social class?

FrStone · 22-05-2014 01:06AM

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

There is no real social class divide in Ireland.

That is from someone who grew up on a council housing estate and works as a solicitor.

If you have a shortfall in your grant you work. Like most students.

FFS Class? In Ireland. Plenty of people up their own hole thinking they are something and plenty with a hand out complaining about being disadvantaged while they have enough for sky and fags.

If you want to see real wealth and class divide go to the us or Brazil or China or India.
Go to. Mississippi or Rio, or rural china or Mumbai.

People are moaning about not being able to get out library books. FFs. Well for ya.

Nonsense.

I have to agree with you.

A generous grant is given to students whose parents don't earn that much. IF you want more money you get a job.

The real issue is those who don't qualify for a grant who not only have to pay massive fees but also don't get free money handed to them to cover their expenses.

It's an attitude I hate from students on the grant who don't realise how lucky they are to get a free 3rd level education.

Turtwig · 22-05-2014 01:08AM

Where are these jobs people keep talking about? Magical mysterious fairy job land.

Some, are lucky enough to find this land and they still struggle.

steddyeddy · 22-05-2014 01:08AM

So those students I mentioned some of whom have come from care are blowing it on booze and fags? Genius people simply genius.

Pingi · 22-05-2014 01:12AM

steddyeddy wrote: »

I'll just tell people sleeping in their cars that it's worse in China . What dribble.

Most students cant afford a car and rent. I graduated 3 years ago and it was very rare in Waterford where rent is half that of in Dublin.

Those with cars lived at home, those who rented walked/took the bus in most cases, there were exceptions but that would have been the norm

steddyeddy · 22-05-2014 01:13AM

Motivator wrote: »

Hang on a minute, sleeping in their car?

Where do they shower? Brush their teeth?

As Turtwig said in the gym or in some of the more remote toilets in college.

Celly Smunt · 22-05-2014 01:16AM

FrStone wrote: »

I have to agree with you.

A generous grant is given to students whose parents don't earn that much. IF you want more money you get a job.

The real issue is those who don't qualify for a grant who not only have to pay massive fees but also don't get free money handed to them to cover their expenses.

It's an attitude I hate from students on the grant who don't realise how lucky they are to get a free 3rd level education.

I'm sure there are a huge amount of students in Ireland who if been given the chance of a structured loan to comfortably live on during college (much like the UK system) they'd pick it over the obstacle course of "free education". With rising fees up to 3000 per year (Double or Triple if you need to repeat etc) it's clear to see that free third level education is a thing of the past.

FrStone · 22-05-2014 01:18AM

steddyeddy wrote: »

So those students I mentioned some of whom have come from care are blowing it on booze and fags? Genius people simply genius.

I'm sure that there are some students who are hard up. However I've been invited on too many nights out at this stage because "the grant money came through" for me to believe the poor student cry.

If you are sleeping in your car present yourself to the city council and you'll be put in a hotel. It's called emergency accommodation.

Naydy · 22-05-2014 01:21AM

From my own experience, the worst offenders for ignorant remarks or begrudgery towards disadvantaged students were usually very sheltered people who had never had to worry about money or had a job in their lives. All fees, rent, clothes, social life paid for by their parents. Which actually made it pretty easy to ignore to be honest.

FrStone wrote: »

I have to agree with you.

A generous grant is given to students whose parents don't earn that much. IF you want more money you get a job.

Disadvantaged people don't always get a generous grant. I was classed as highly disadvantaged but because my mother's house was too close to the college (35km away), I was given the adjacent rate, which was about a third of the full amount. I didn't live with my mother and she didn't support me financially at all, but that didn't matter. I was lucky that I got a job as well, not everyone can.

I think some resentment comes from the mistaken impression that you have the life of Riley on a grant. The largest amount you could get when I was in college a few years ago was about 6 grand for a full year iirc. A lot of people are not entitled to this much, especially since they changed the distance for adjacent rates a few years ago. If you are living on your own, no job or a very crap part-time job, no support from parents, it can be an extremely meager existence. Of course, like any type of payment, there are people who shouldn't be on the grant and use it for "drinking money" but that's a separate issue.

FrStone · 22-05-2014 01:22AM

Turtwig wrote: »

Where are these jobs people keep talking about? Magical mysterious fairy job land.

Some, are lucky enough to find this land and they still struggle.

Well I'm currently working jobs, you just have to be willing to work **** jobs and do long hours.

KyussBishop · 22-05-2014 01:24AM

Celly Smunt wrote: »

I'm sure there are a huge amount of students in Ireland who if been given the chance of a structured loan to comfortably live on during college (much like the UK system) they'd pick it over the obstacle course of "free education". With rising fees up to 3000 per year (Double or Triple if you need to repeat etc) it's clear to see that free third level education is a thing of the past.

Yea but look at what that has done to the US - there is $1 trillion thereabouts, in student loans there, with a good portion of it being unsustainable, threatening economic damage.

KyussBishop · 22-05-2014 01:26AM

FrStone wrote: »

Well I'm currently working jobs, you just have to be willing to work **** jobs and do long hours.

That interferes with college work and study though - that's why you don't want people working to pay off student debts, as - all together - it will grind some of them down and worsen their academic performance.

Wishiwasa Littlebitaller · 22-05-2014 01:26AM

Few years back I starting having a bit of a thing with this chick who was way out of my league. Best mate at the time comes in one night while we're at it on the couch and starts moaning out of him. Fair enough, it was his girlfriend but sure no need to begrudge me the ride ffs. Country is full of begrudgers.

Mr. Incognito · 22-05-2014 01:28AM

steddyeddy wrote: »

I'll just tell people sleeping in their cars that it's worse in China . What dribble.

So people from disadvantaged backgrounds who have come from nothing have money for cars and insurance and tax but cannot afford rent?

You are talking out your backside. I worked as an auditor with Simon in college. I was on a grant. My best mate was a two term welfare officer in college.

I just had a gig to raise two grand for inner city music programmes last Thursday.

You are posting sensalationalist tripe to garner sympathy but people are not stupid. If I am broke the FIRST thing I am selling is my car.

FrStone · 22-05-2014 01:29AM

Naydy wrote: »

as classed as highly disadvantaged but because my mother's house was too close to the college (35km away), I was given the adjacent rate, which was about a third of the full amount. I didn't live with my mother and she didn't support me financially at all,.

This is the problem though, its based on your parents income. A good friend of mine wasn't entitled to a grant. He also wasn't supported by her parents through college. He worked every hour under the sun and is now doing his final year exams. The only other way he got assistance was down to the fact that his grades were so good he won an award with a cash prize.

Every year this man had to come up with the registration fee, the contribution charge and money to get too and from college. He was never without work because he realised if he wanted to stay in college he couldn't afford not to work.

Then I see another girl I know (lovely girl) who lives with her parent a stones throw from the college get an adjacent grant. Ok pay her fees but there is no need for the rest of it, she can walk to college.

Celly Smunt · 22-05-2014 01:29AM

KyussBishop wrote: »

Yea but look at what that has done to the US - there is $1 trillion thereabouts, in student loans there, with a good portion of it being unsustainable, threatening economic damage.

Look at there volume of students though and the percentage owed from those attending Ivy league schools. There's a misconception that all Colleges in America charge obscene amounts (Harvard,MIT etc etc) but there are hundreds of colleges charging similar to the UK or Private colleges here. Put a cap on the charges for universities and presto,you have a sustainable system.

The UK system is what we should be looking at,a drip feed through tax once you get a job. It's pretty much what we have here except it's completely impartial to means or background,meaning that even those who fall through the cracks can get loans (squeezed middle etc). The free education system here doesn't benefit anybody,it's all one big loan re branded.

FrStone · 22-05-2014 01:30AM

KyussBishop wrote: »

That interferes with college work and study though - that's why you don't want people working to pay off student debts, as - all together - it will grind some of them down and worsen their academic performance.

It most certainly does. Many who don't receive a grant have no choice but to work if they want to stay in college though.

sligoface · 22-05-2014 01:35AM

Don't mind them spoiled brats. People who have money and have it easy are often deeply insecure and miserable once you get past the facade. They aren't happy even though they have money and have it easy so they say stuff like that because all they have left is the ability to put down poor people. It actually comes from a fear that they will never be happy despite having material things, or become poor themselves, or be surpassed in some way by someone who came from a lower class. IMO anyway. I'm not wealthy (yet!)

Though the few truly wealthy people I've met (not just some geek whose daddy can afford to buy him a nice car, but people who come from big money) rarely seemed to want to belittle people of lesser means because they passed the point of caring about money or social status long ago. They were either happy or miserable or somewhere in between just like a normal person, the difference being that their emotions and behavior were not based on money but on other things like relationships, professional success, personal goals, world issues they were interested in or concerned about, family life. Y'know, the stuff we plebs think about when we are not worried about paying bills.

Turtwig · 22-05-2014 01:36AM

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

So people from disadvantaged backgrounds who have come from nothing have money for cars and insurance and tax but cannot afford rent?

You are talking out your backside. I worked as an auditor with Simon in college. I was on a grant. My best mate was a two term welfare officer in college.

I just had a gig to raise two grand for inner city music programmes last Thursday.

You are posting sensalationalist tripe to garner sympathy but people are not stupid. If I am broke the FIRST thing I am selling is my car.

It's actually a bit more complicated than that. Living in a car is far cheaper than paying rent. Especially if you have a van. Park in a car park, sleep inside the van, security are none the wiser. No rent and energy bills.

Also, off topic, but if you are broke selling your car isn't always the first thing to do. It depends largely on where you live and your other circumstances. For example, it's often a lot cheaper to buy in bulk than it is to buy daily - and find the savings from selling the car elsewhere.

Mr. Incognito · 22-05-2014 01:40AM

Turtwig wrote: »

It's actually a bit more complicated than that. Living in a car is far cheaper than paying rent. Especially if you have a van. Park in a car park, sleep inside the van, security are none the wiser. No rent and energy bills.

Also, off topic, but if you are broke selling your car isn't always the first thing to do. It depends largely on where you live and your other circumstances. For example, it's often a lot cheaper to buy in bulk than it is to buy daily - and find the savings from selling the car elsewhere.

First it was a car. Now it's a van? Do you know the price of diesel? Ucd would have that clamped if it was overnighted regularly.

Trust me. I have lost a job. The FIRST thing to go is the car. Petrol, tax, insurance.

You sound like your heart is in the right place but stopping talking crap.

Turtwig · 22-05-2014 01:44AM

I'm not talking crap. I actually know of students who lived in their vehicles all semester because accomoddation was far more expensive. When you do the math it makes sense.

And no I did not change it from a car to a van. Hence the use of the word 'especially'. I just pointed out that folks with vans had it more comfortable for sleeping. Security wouldn't be bothering them if they parked on campus and they had more sleeping room.

steddyeddy · 22-05-2014 01:47AM

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

So people from disadvantaged backgrounds who have come from nothing have money for cars and insurance and tax but cannot afford rent?

You are talking out your backside. I worked as an auditor with Simon in college. I was on a grant. My best mate was a two term welfare officer in college.

I just had a gig to raise two grand for inner city music programmes last Thursday.

You are posting sensalationalist tripe to garner sympathy but people are not stupid. If I am broke the FIRST thing I am selling is my car.

You had a gig to raise money for inner city projects yet they blow it all on booze and fags?

Absolutely disgusting attitude you have that people aren't genuinely suffering financially because you don't believe it.

Who said the car was taxed/nct-ed?

steddyeddy · 22-05-2014 01:48AM

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

First it was a car. Now it's a van? Do you know the price of diesel? Ucd would have that clamped if it was overnighted regularly.

Trust me. I have lost a job. The FIRST thing to go is the car. Petrol, tax, insurance.

You sound like your heart is in the right place but stopping talking crap.

People who disagree with you are not talking crap as you put it.

steddyeddy · 22-05-2014 01:51AM

There are people on the dole who are homeless why do people find it difficult to believe people on less money (grant) would be better off?

longhalloween · 22-05-2014 01:52AM

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

First it was a car. Now it's a van? Do you know the price of diesel? Ucd would have that clamped if it was overnighted regularly.

Trust me. I have lost a job. The FIRST thing to go is the car. Petrol, tax, insurance.

If you have a choice between €500 a month in rent and bills or just staying in your car and heading home to the country for the weekend, then you'd choose the car.

In 2009 I lived in a sh*tbox in Rathmines that cost my parents €400 a month. It cost me another €150 a week in bus fares, bills and food. I was lucky to get all the support I needed and I worked part time.

God only knows how bad it is now with rising rents and no work.

Turtwig · 22-05-2014 01:56AM

steddyeddy wrote: »

There are people on the dole who are homeless why do people find it difficult to believe people on less money (grant) would be better off?

I genuinely don't know. It baffles me how a story about a student abusing the grant or a dole scrounger abusing social welfare carries more weight than the person who is genuinely struggling. Really, really baffles me!

steddyeddy · 22-05-2014 01:59AM

Turtwig wrote: »

I genuinely don't know. It baffles me how a story about a student abusing the grant or a dole scrounger abusing social welfare carries more weight than the person who is genuinely struggling. Really, really baffles me!

Yet you can understand string theory

Cookie_Monster · 22-05-2014 02:02AM

how can they afford to buy, run, tax and insure a car but not pay thier fees?

longhalloween · 22-05-2014 02:05AM

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

how can they afford to buy, run, tax and insure a car but not pay thier fees?

If you had the choice between paying your college fees, or paying for your accommodation/transport what would you choose?

No point paying expensive fees if you can't get to the college.

Also I must congratulate colleges that do online lectures and distance learning. This problem would not be so severe if more courses were taught like this.

Turtwig · 22-05-2014 02:06AM

steddyeddy wrote: »

Yet you can understand string theory

What? Eh, no, No, I can't. Haven't a clue of anything physics related really!

Mr. Incognito · 22-05-2014 02:09AM

Tell you what. You bring me a student who is living full time out of their car and I will arrange paid accommodation for them. This is a genuine offer. Pm me for my mobile number.

Simply put. I don't believe you. Works in theory if you don't pay insurance, tax, petrol and have somewhere to park. First it was a car, then a van, now they don't pay nct? In their only asset, which you haven't explained how they were able to purchase in the first place.

Begrudgery against people rising out of their social class?

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