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Unpopular Gaming Opinions

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    #872
    Retr0gamer
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 51,006 CMod ✭✭✭✭Retr0gamer


    I'd like to know what side scrollers are better? It's pretty much at the pinnacle of the genre with contra hard corp and gunstar heroes.

    Mercenary kings wishes it looked as good and payed as good as metal slug.
    Untitled Image




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    #873
    johnny_ultimate
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 29,229 CMod ✭✭✭✭johnny_ultimate


    DarkJager wrote: »
    Edit: Also this trend of **** fawning over completely **** looking minimalist games. I've seen one recently called sportsfriends? that was just shockingly bad yet it got a 9 on the eurogamer review. That game would have been embarrassing to show people in 1992 let alone 2014 but they get away with putting out such **** because they're "indie" and indie is the flavor of the month at the moment.

    But sometimes a minimalist art style is exactly what is needed to communicate what needs to be: basic graphics can communicate things in a far more efficient and coherent manner than loading it with all sorts of modern effects. In fact, one of Sportfriends games (there's four, I think) called Johann Sebastian Joust does not have graphics at all, and involves physically 'attacking' other players in the room to try and jostle their controller - the status is communicated through the lights on the controllers themselves (a Move or Dualshock 4). Maybe, just maybe, the acclaim is because they're incredibly fun party games as opposed to some 'hipster' attempt to praise all things retro :) In fact, several publications have praised its success in spite of its incredibly basic presentation. As Gamecentral conclude, it's "a superb mini-game compilation that’s as addictive and raucously entertaining as it is ugly"

    Mercenary Kings doesn't look great, I'd concede, but mostly because it's a bland and derivative art style. Better to look at games like Kentucky Route Zero which are properly, distinctively minimalist and use a unique art style to communicate tone and story in a rich and complex way. It wouldn't be half as effective if another graphical mode was used, and that's not even counting the sheer practicality of using highly stylised art.


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    #874
    nesf
    Registered Users Posts: 27,645 ✭✭✭✭nesf


    The problem isn't really the graphics though, it's the nostalgia generating graphics being bolted onto what's essentially a poor game or the graphics being put into a game that suffers from using that style (much rarer). In many genres it doesn't really matter how fancy the graphics are so long as the mechanics and game itself are solid. Which is why people still play Alpha Centauri but it's very rare to hear of people playing Dune II still (Dune II's RTS mechanics were improved on immensely in the following years and it is missing a lot of things we'd take for granted now like contextual right click and similar).


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    #875
    ShadowHearth
    Registered Users Posts: 22,929 ✭✭✭✭ShadowHearth


    Retr0gamer wrote: »
    I'd like to know what side scrollers are better? It's pretty much at the pinnacle of the genre with contra hard corp and gunstar heroes.

    Mercenary kings wishes it looked as good and payed as good as metal slug.

    Metal slug has a very cool art design, which makes it unique and really good looking game. Mercenary king style just has no personality. It just looks generic old.

    I don't really think it is fair to compare mercenary king with metal slug. Very very different type of games and I don't understand why devs themselves use that comparison.


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    #876
    Flynn Prickly Mushroom
    Posts: 0 ✭ Flynn Prickly Mushroom


    Grimebox wrote: »
    NEver played it but it looks like a Metal Slug clone which leads to....

    I don't think Metal Slug is a good game. There are so many better side scrolling shooters out there.
    I love it.
    Nothing quite like playing Metal Slug 1 in the arcade.
    One of my fondest memories back in the day.
    Lightning reflexes required for the arcade stick.
    Swallowed up my pocket money.
    That was 17 years ago :eek:


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    #877
    C14N
    Registered Users Posts: 2,656 ✭✭✭C14N


    Retr0gamer wrote: »
    When you have a limited budget as a developer making a game you have two options for art, pixel art or vector graphics. Cheap vector graphics look like absolute pants and are really flat looking so most developers go for pixel art. Unfortunately a lot of pixel artists are crap do the games don't look great.

    It's more a choice made out of necessity to go with pixel art. I'm more annoyed with games saying they have an 8 bit aesthetic yet use 32 bit colour, scaling and rotation.

    Mercenary kings really is dog ugly though.

    What about hand-drawn sprites? Mark of the Ninja and Super Meat Boy both used that and looked pretty good.


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    #878
    Retr0gamer
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 51,006 CMod ✭✭✭✭Retr0gamer


    Mark of the Ninja and Super Meat Boy were vector art and not hand drawn.

    I wouldn't say Super Meat Boy had great art. Mark of the ninja was a good example of vector art done right but I still felt it very flat with no depth especially the animations.
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    #879
    CiDeRmAn
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 34,553 CMod ✭✭✭✭CiDeRmAn


    C14N wrote: »
    What about hand-drawn sprites? Mark of the Ninja and Super Meat Boy both used that and looked pretty good.

    They pale compared to the amazing work to be found in In The Hunt, Mark of Wolves, Braid and Rayman Legends.


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    #880
    C14N
    Registered Users Posts: 2,656 ✭✭✭C14N


    CiDeRmAn wrote: »
    They pale compared to the amazing work to be found in In The Hunt, Mark of Wolves, Braid and Rayman Legends.

    I only wanted to comment on games I had actually played, haven't played either In The Hunt or Mark of Wolves. Good point on Braid, although it was apparently a very expensive game to make by indie standards. Similarly, Rayman Legends was made by Ubisoft, I'm sure they didn't give it the budget of Assassin's Creed or Watch Dogs but I'm also sure it had a bit more to work with than most indie developers.


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    #881
    CiDeRmAn
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 34,553 CMod ✭✭✭✭CiDeRmAn


    Ubisoft had the Ubiart engine that did a lot of the animation heavy lifting afaik.
    In The Hunt is well worth playing via Mame as is Mark of Wolves on Neo Geo, or Mame once again.
    The former is by the team that went on to produce the Metal Slug series, it's lovely.
    But Super Meat Boy was purposefully retro, and it wasn't alone, at the time you also had N and others all embracing this simple visuals combined with razor sharp level goals and a certain expectation of skill from the player. Certainly hand holding was right out!

    Critics of Indie games are a little off the mark, I fear maybe they just haven't played enough of them, or at least the good stuff.
    Just because they tend to be cheap you still should pay attention to the reviews.


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    #882
    Retr0gamer
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 51,006 CMod ✭✭✭✭Retr0gamer


    Eh mark of the wolves was produced by SNK and not Nazca who made metal slug. In the hunt on the other hand was made by the team the left Irem to form Nazca which is why the art style is similar.

    Rayman Legends uses a vector system to animate, there's very little or even no hand drawn animation in that game although the textures are made by hand.
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    #883
    Flynn Prickly Mushroom
    Posts: 0 ✭ Flynn Prickly Mushroom


    CiDeRmAn wrote: »
    They pale compared to the amazing work to be found in In The Hunt, Mark of Wolves, Braid and Rayman Legends.
    Mark of the Wolves!!

    Brings me back to Neo-Geo emulation.

    Terry Bogard :)


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    #884
    nesf
    Registered Users Posts: 27,645 ✭✭✭✭nesf


    CiDeRmAn wrote: »
    Critics of Indie games are a little off the mark, I fear maybe they just haven't played enough of them, or at least the good stuff.

    The problem is it's about as useful a "genre" as console game. You'll find everything and anything in there and you could be talking about a completely different kind of game to the person you're talking to.


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    #885
    CiDeRmAn
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 34,553 CMod ✭✭✭✭CiDeRmAn


    Retr0gamer wrote: »
    Eh mark of the wolves was produced by SNK and not Nazca who made metal slug. In the hunt on the other hand was made by the team the left Irem for Nazca which is why the art style is similar.

    Rayman Legends uses a vector system to animate, there's very little or even no hand drawn animation in that game although the textures are made by hand.

    I did say the former game s made by the eventual developers of the Slug series, I didn't mean the latter game as well.
    And fair enough about the character animation in Rayman Legends, but at least the level art is brilliant, as all of the Rayman games have been, particular love goes out to Rayman 2, originally the N64.


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    #886
    Retr0gamer
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 51,006 CMod ✭✭✭✭Retr0gamer


    Well there's nothing wrong with good vector art. Vanillawares games as well use vector art. There's just a lot of really lazy vector artists out there.
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    #887
    crybaby
    Registered Users Posts: 852 ✭✭✭crybaby


    Vanquish really isn't that good, roll and shoot roll and shoot


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    #888
    CiDeRmAn
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 34,553 CMod ✭✭✭✭CiDeRmAn


    crybaby wrote: »
    Vanquish really isn't that good, roll and shoot roll and shoot

    :eek:


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    #889
    COYVB
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,660 ✭✭✭COYVB


    crybaby wrote: »
    roll and shoot roll and shoot

    that's all it needs to be


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    #890
    calex71
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,126 ✭✭✭✭calex71


    Beyond good and evil is not a great game,

    playing it at the minute for the 1st time and about 3/4 of the way through , failing to see why people were so excited at the prospect of a sequel when that clip was out a few year back, ok I am aware it was intended as the 1st of 3 games so maybe the ending is some massive jaw dropping cliff hanger but I haven't been given enough so far in terms of characters and story to care.

    It's not even about it showing its age etc. I don't think this ever could have been that good, the combat and camera are awful even for 10 years ago.


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    #891
    .ak
    Registered Users Posts: 30,308 Mod ✭✭✭✭.ak


    crybaby wrote: »
    Vanquish really isn't that good, roll and shoot roll and shoot

    Completely. As a game it's quite average. But as a tongue-in-cheek sci-fi-anime-style shooter it's great fun. Especially if you own a HD projector with 120" screen. :D


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    #892
    Flynn Prickly Mushroom
    Posts: 0 ✭ Flynn Prickly Mushroom


    .ak wrote: »
    Completely. As a game it's quite average. But as a tongue-in-cheek sci-fi-anime-style shooter it's great fun. Especially if you own a HD projector with 120" screen. :D

    Finally! I'm not alone! Projector = HD master race :pac:


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    #893
    C14N
    Registered Users Posts: 2,656 ✭✭✭C14N


    calex71 wrote: »
    Beyond good and evil is not a great game,

    playing it at the minute for the 1st time and about 3/4 of the way through , failing to see why people were so excited at the prospect of a sequel when that clip was out a few year back, ok I am aware it was intended as the 1st of 3 games so maybe the ending is some massive jaw dropping cliff hanger but I haven't been given enough so far in terms of characters and story to care.

    It's not even about it showing its age etc. I don't think this ever could have been that good, the combat and camera are awful even for 10 years ago.

    Honestly, most of the praise I'v heard for it has been due to having a female protagonist who isn't objectified rather than for the gameplay.


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    #894
    SeantheMan
    Registered Users Posts: 6,911 ✭✭✭SeantheMan


    Last week downloaded MGS 3, I remember it being great.
    Played through it....well...I wasn't that impressed.

    - So many different useless camo,
    - so many things to eat ...half of which aren't necessary
    - The medic / cure thing is so stupidly done, just clicking them all till your healed
    - Tacked on bosses....The Fear, The Fury...The Pain.......pain in my hole......all exploding after you kill them
    - Snake getting the crap kicked out of him EVERY time he meets the boss...except at the end of course
    - Ocelot being weird and being a 'Triple' agent
    - Who are these characters on my comms....I didn't even use Sigint once, until the very end when I thought it was something else...then seen some black lad appear on my comms telling me about my weapons.
    - The endless dialogue.....god I was bored so many times I had to skip it...

    Aside from that, the gameplay was Ok, but I think I enjoyed it more back in the day for some reason, and going back to it years later....I expected more....I'm not sure...but this time around It felt 'average'.


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    #895
    CiDeRmAn
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 34,553 CMod ✭✭✭✭CiDeRmAn


    I never liked it, couldn't get into MGS2 or 3 at all.
    And... I enjoyed MGS4, although I beat the end boss despite dozing off.


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    #896
    Stone Deaf 4evr
    Registered Users Posts: 7,997 ✭✭✭Stone Deaf 4evr


    I think the only good Metal Gear game was the one on the original Playstation, since then, they've disappeared up their own rear end.


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    #897
    BlitzKrieg
    Registered Users Posts: 14,685 ✭✭✭✭BlitzKrieg


    Don't know if someone else was brave enough to say it but:


    I don't think EA are as evil as people make them out to be and some of their unpopular decisions (online gaming codes) made sense especially when they went above and beyond to make the service worthwhile (mass effect 2's Cerberus network being a good example)

    Course I don't believe they are squeaky clean do no wrong but cry wolf too often and they'll stop trying to be pro consumer in any form


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    #898
    C14N
    Registered Users Posts: 2,656 ✭✭✭C14N


    SeantheMan wrote: »
    1) Snake getting the crap kicked out of him EVERY time he meets the boss...except at the end of course
    2) Who are these characters on my comms....I didn't even use Sigint once, until the very end when I thought it was something else...then seen some black lad appear on my comms telling me about my weapons.
    3) The endless dialogue.....god I was bored so many times I had to skip it...

    1) What I would say is worse is the mandatory torture scene. All 3 had some scene where the lead is tied up and electrocuted a bunch near the end. When one game doesn't, fair enough, when all your games do it it starts to look like a fetish.
    2) Sigint is left very undeveloped in MGS3 but he's important in the lore. I don't know if you've played the first but he's
    the DARPA chief who dies at Shadow Moses and he's one of the 5 founding members of the PATRIOTS. He created the AIs that get brought up a lot in MGS2 and MGS4.
    3) Well in fairness, that's part of the attraction for Metal Gear Solid. I would say the dialogue is a more central aspect of the series than the stealth.
    BlitzKrieg wrote: »
    I don't think EA are as evil as people make them out to be and some of their unpopular decisions (online gaming codes) made sense especially when they went above and beyond to make the service worthwhile (mass effect 2's Cerberus network being a good example)

    I don't like EA very much but it certainly doesn't make me angry like it seems to for so many others. I don't like their heavy use of microtransactions and DLC so I don't buy it. Personally don't think they're as bad as Activision either.


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    #899
    ripperman
    Registered Users Posts: 203 ✭✭ripperman


    I don't think any of the Metal Gear games are without flaw, but I always found myself commending them for the different and often brave ideas they tried. Rose tinted glasses perhaps and that's why I debate about undertaking a MG marathon before The Phantom Pain.


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    #900
    kunst nugget
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,375 ✭✭✭✭kunst nugget


    I enjoy the dialogue segments in MGS even though a lot of times it's complete gibberish. I'd never skip dialogue in a game. That said, I have MGS4 there but I keep putting it off because when I have maybe an hour to play in the evenings, the amount of dialogue I'll have to sit through puts me off.


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    #901
    .ak
    Registered Users Posts: 30,308 Mod ✭✭✭✭.ak


    When did the dialogue for the MGS series become so fake deep/anime like? I remember playing MGS1 and then 2... at the end of 2 it got a bit deep, with the whole patriots thing, but before that the longest bits of dialogue was usually the bosses.

    I still love the MGS games, but I find it's a far cry from the first two in the series. Now it's mostly long cut scenes - which in fairness are often epic - and very squeeky bum-time gameplay, which is also cool but the gameplay in the first two games mixed it up enough to keep you interested, it wasn't all stealth, like the RPG scenes or the sniper scenes or cool boss battles.


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