Ireland’s Nine Eleven

William F · 15-05-2014 11:36PM

Pocoyo wrote: »

In fairness its disgraceful how the thread has gone people focusing on ''words'' in a snarky manner rather than the actual event its so disrespectful.

Considering this is an Irish forum I would have expected more empathy from posters but that doesn't seem to be the case.

British protocol has again succeeded.

Jawgap · 15-05-2014 11:37PM

endacl wrote: »

Nothin snarky in it. I only pointed out that the op had included three posts in a multiquote, and responded to all three with a statement that had nothing to do with any of them.

Tbh, you're not making much sense either...

Eh, I think his poorly constructed comment was aimed at me - I was highlighting the internal inconsistency in his argument, he chose to see it as a semantic criticism.

Capt'n Midnight · 15-05-2014 11:37PM

Wabbit Ears wrote: »

To call this Irelands 9/11 is retarded beyond comprehension. 9/11 changed the lives of practically eveybody in the western world in some way. Its not aout the act itself or the numbers that died, it was a ground breaking event that had never happened before in the US on that scale.

wow , just wow.

The big difference was the PR spin, security screening on Ireland - UK flights was strict before that, and driving up North through the Army checkpoints with all the barriers and bunkers and intercoms

1995 - 168 people died in the Oklahoma City bombing,
1993 - previous twin towers bombing , killed 6 and injured over 1,000

big attacks had taken place in the US before, just less jingoism

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

It was a tragedy but I don't think you can compare it to 9/11.

33 people in a population of 3 million would be 3300 in a population of 300 million.

So yeah it's almost exactly the same.

The reaction though was completely different

Jawgap · 15-05-2014 11:38PM

William F wrote: »

Considering this is an Irish forum I would have expected more empathy from posters but that doesn't seem to be the case.

British protocol has again succeeded.

So, no links then as requested in my last post?

Plus what is this 'British protocol' you speak of?

endacl · 15-05-2014 11:38PM

William F wrote: »

Considering this is an Irish forum I would have expected more empathy from posters but that doesn't seem to be the case.

British protocol has again succeeded.

'Bhfuil tu ar meisce? Tog go bog e.

You started off well. This could have been an interesting thread till you threw your rattle out of the pram.

Pocoyo · 15-05-2014 11:40PM

endacl wrote: »

'Bhfuil tu ar meisce? Tog go bog e.

You started off well. This could have been an interesting thread till you threw your rattle out of the pram.

Nope you and the other poster are quite obviously baiting its plain to see.

Jawgap · 15-05-2014 11:44PM

Pocoyo wrote: »

Nope you and the other poster are quite obviously baiting its plain to see.

Really? Because it seems to me I'm the only one who has, thus far, contributed a direct recollection of the event from personal experience - giving a flavour of how it affected even those families who were blessed not to have anyone killed or injured......

........what have you brought to the thread?

tritium · 15-05-2014 11:48PM

Trigger Happy wrote: »

Dublin/monaghan was not irelands 9/11 imo. Not even close. It is sensationalist to try to latch on to the two. Dublin/Monaghan is nowhere on the list of histories worst atrocities.

In terms of worst atrocities 9/11 is also nowhere on the worst list:

Stalins Purges
Holocaust
Khmer Rouges genocide
Rwanda
...
...
much much later comes 9/11
(and I'm just taking the last < 100 years here, there's some pretty rough stuff before that)

a terrible event but lets not pretend that in terms of the scale of the atrocity it was exceptional. If anything it was the response that was exceptional

woodoo · 15-05-2014 11:51PM

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

It was a tragedy but I don't think you can compare it to 9/11.

Of course 9/11 happened in important America, Dublin/Monaghan was only Irish people. Silly to compare.

endacl · 15-05-2014 11:52PM

woodoo wrote: »

Of course 9/11 happened in important America live on TV, Dublin/Monaghan was only Irish people. Silly to compare.

Probably more pertinent...

Fratton Fred · 16-05-2014 08:41AM

William F wrote: »

Ah no. There is no correlation between what happened in the north and what happened in the south. The attacks you mentioned were a reaction to unpopular Unionist/British policies.

The south had no part to play in what was happening north of the border yet it was bombed to bits for no reason.

are you claiming some victims are worth remembering and others aren't, or just that there is a hierarchy of victims?

yosser hughes · 16-05-2014 08:47AM

downonthefarm wrote: »

Wasn't royston bradys dad used in some way?
Think his car was robbed by the scummers to get out of dublin

I thought Royston was found to have made that up? There was some controversy over it anyway.

Wellkid1 · 16-05-2014 09:44AM

Why hasn't an investigation been opened at this stage? The Irish government covered up the killing of Irish citizens by the British state. That's probably the reason right there but why isn't there outcry over it?

downonthefarm · 16-05-2014 09:13PM

yosser hughes wrote: »

I thought Royston was found to have made that up? There was some controversy over it anyway.

Yeah I googled it.he got into hot water about it
I suppose its a bit like the rising,if everyone who claimed to be there was then the Brits would have been ran out long before the treaty

endacl · 16-05-2014 09:21PM

downonthefarm wrote: »

Yeah I googled it.he got into hot water about it
I suppose its a bit like the rising,if everyone who claimed to be there was then the Brits would have been ran out long before the treaty

No they wouldn't. They'd have had the run of the rest if the country. Everywhere outside of O'Connell street would have been empty.

Except for the thousands across in Mt Temple waiting to have been in U2, of course.

LordSutch · 16-05-2014 09:47PM

William F wrote: »

The fact that the majority of posters can come on here and play down what happened in 1974, is a disgrace.

Enniskillen, Dublin, Monaghan, La Mon, Bloody Friday, Omagh, all high profile atrocities, all to be condemned & remembered as dispicable acts of terrorism, any one of which you might regard as Irelands 9/11.

However . . . the very term "9/11" was a world changing event, so I'm not sure we could call anyone of theose terrorist Bomb attacks on the island of Ireland a 9/11 event, even if each one of them were dispicable attacks in their own right.

MakeEmLaugh · 17-05-2014 11:28AM

William F wrote: »

The attacks claimed the lives of 33 innocent Irish people.

Not all the victims were Irish. One was an Italian man and another a French Jewish woman whose family had survived the Holocaust.

endacl · 17-05-2014 01:24PM

MakeEmLaugh wrote: »

Not all the victims were Irish. One was an Italian man and another a French Jewish woman whose family had survived the Holocaust.

How dare you. Coming on the internet with facts and knowledge.

Hang your head.

Rory Gallagher · 17-05-2014 06:01PM

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/government-seeking-documents-on-dublin-monaghan-bombs-1.1800094

Good to see Enda Kenny growing a backbone and inquiring the British government of this atrocity.

R.I.P to those that were killed all the same.

nlgbbbblth · 17-05-2014 06:08PM

Well worth watching. The 1993 Yorkshire television documentary.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wNvZHDafi38

RIP to the victims.

"Sure the IRA are bombing up north so we can't really complain when loyalists come down to the republic and do the same" - that attitude was unacceptable in 1974 and cuts no ice now either.

http://www.dublinmonaghanbombings.org/

Menas · 17-05-2014 06:10PM

There was a thread on this a few days ago entitled "irelands nine eleven"!!!

Rory Gallagher · 17-05-2014 06:13PM

nlgbbbblth wrote: »

Well worth watching. The 1993 Yorkshire television documentary.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wNvZHDafi38

RIP to the victims.

"Sure the IRA are bombing up north so we can't really complain when loyalists come down to the republic and do the same" - that attitude was unacceptable in 1974 and cuts no ice now either.

http://www.dublinmonaghanbombings.org/

Any idiot who attempts justify those killed by using such a disgusting attitude need to realize that if that's the case, People from the North shouldn't complain if a gang of southerners set bombs off in Belfast or Derry.Beside's the majority of the P.I.R.A were from the North anyhow.

William F · 17-05-2014 08:39PM

Rory Gallagher wrote: »

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/government-seeking-documents-on-dublin-monaghan-bombs-1.1800094

Good to see Enda Kenny growing a backbone and inquiring the British government of this atrocity.

R.I.P to those that were killed all the same.

The Irish Indo didn't bother reporting on the story this morning. Instead they had a front page story on whether readers believed Gerry Adams was involved in the murder of Jean McConville.

I find it incredible that readers would find this story more interesting than the Dublin and Monaghan cover up.

Muahahaha · 17-05-2014 08:56PM

William F wrote: »

I think if we are ever to move on from the troubles, Britain's involvement needs to be seriously assessed and the question needs to be asked, are they the right people to be launching inquiries since they were up to their eyes in collusion and continue to protect those involved.

As far as the Dublin government is concerned, for better or for worse, it had very little part to play in the conflict.

The thing I don't get about the Brits and the Troubles was that we now know for a fact that MI6 had turned Denis Donaldson and were using him as a spy for over 20 years right throughout the Troubles. Denis Donalson was supposedly number three in the IRA command structure behind Gerry Adams and Martin McGuinness. Think about that for a minute- for over 20 years the British intelligence services had a spy right at the top of the IRA. This would surely mean that MI6 were fully filled in on IRA operations and planned attacks yet the Troubles went on and on and on. If they wanted to take out Adams and McGuinness they could have done so at any point of their choosing because they had a spy sitting right there on the IRA Army Council. But they didn't, the let the whole mess carry on and on.

In intelligence services there is a theory of how it is in the interests of spooks to let conflicts go on a lot longer than they have to. Spies love the action, so why bring it to a premature end ? To me this is what seems to have happened in Northern Ireland.

William F · 17-05-2014 09:05PM

Muahahaha wrote: »

The thing I don't get about the Brits and the Troubles was that we now know for a fact that MI6 had turned Denis Donaldson and were using him as a spy for over 20 years right throughout the Troubles. Denis Donalson was supposedly number three in the IRA command structure behind Gerry Adams and Martin McGuinness. Think about that for a minute- for over 20 years the British intelligence services had a spy right at the top of the IRA. This would surely mean that MI6 were fully filled in on IRA operations and planned attacks yet the Troubles went on and on and on. If they wanted to take out Adams and McGuinness they could have done so at any point of their choosing because they had a spy sitting right there on the IRA Army Council. But they didn't, the let the whole mess carry on and on.

In intelligence services there is a theory of how it is in the interests of spooks to let conflicts go on a lot longer than they have to. Spies love the action, so why bring it to a premature end ? To me this is what seems to have happened in Northern Ireland.

Had Adams or McGuinness being 'taken out' somebody else would of taken their place. The way the intelligence services probably looked at it is that they would of needed an intermediary at some stage to bring the conflict to an end and a very capable intermediary at that.

Assassinating figures such as these would have been a pointless exercise, unless of course you were the type of leader who stood in the way of peace, such as King Rat Billy Wright.

But that's not to say they didn't attempt to kill Adams before, which they did.

Rory Gallagher · 17-05-2014 10:47PM

William F wrote: »

The Irish Indo didn't bother reporting on the story this morning. Instead they had a front page story on whether readers believed Gerry Adams was involved in the murder of Jean McConville.

I find it incredible that readers would find this story more interesting than the Dublin and Monaghan cover up.

The Jean McConville case has been placed at the forefront of all newspapers purely because it sells papers, Anyone who does not agree needs to wake up.
There is rarely a mention of the other fifteen 'disappeared' unless in relation to this case.
I know that it's an excellent story from the papers point of view, An innocent mother of ten kidnapped by a para-military,tortured,shot and buried with her family not being notified of her true faith.It does not have to be brought up constantly
It was horrible what happened,such cases are common enough in wars which really puts things into perspective.
v d
However if the press did not have such a fixation on profits we would have a larger nationwide desire to learn the facts of what happened forty years ago, The British need to either clearly and cohesively admit that they're state forces had a part to play in the bombing or clear the allegations.

endacl · 18-05-2014 05:13AM

William F wrote: »

I find it incredible that readers would find this story more interesting than the Dublin and Monaghan cover up.

I don't. The bombings were a terrible event, but a historical event in many regards. The failure to bring to light the truth of the events leading up to the atrocities are shameful, and have added insult to the loss suffered by the bereaved. I believe we can all agree on that.

Adams, on the other hand, is a serving TD in the Republic. He is the leader of the only 32 county political party. He is the leader of one of the largest opposition parties in the Republic, has held office in the North, and has also served as an MP, albeit an abstentious one, in the British parliament. He has always denied involvement in, or membership of, the PIRA.

His involvement in the kidnap and murder of Jean McConville, and the subsequent cover up of same, and his current denial of knowledge relating to the kidnap and murder, were it to be proved, would be very much current, and is therefore pertinent to the current situation, and is thereby more newsworthy.

His involvement, were it to be proven, would decimate support for SF in the Republic at least. Except for the usual die-hards and blow-hards of course, and couldn't but damage them severely in the North.

That's why most people find it more interesting. Why you don't is your own affair. Maybe you should take a while to think about priorities

WakeUp · 18-05-2014 08:11AM

As long as the British government refuse to release the files it has to be assumed that they are hiding something /their involvement, their refusal to do so is unacceptable as far as I'm concerned. Our capital and my city was bombed If the British establishment of the time made it happen and was involved I want to know to what degree and who they were working with. Release the files as long as those files remain sealed British state involvement can never be discounted.

Ireland’s Nine Eleven

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