Should the Dole be proportional to how much tax you have paid?

D1stant · 14-05-2014 11:55PM #1

I lost my job in 2012 after 15 years. It was a high paying job which I loved, but sh1t happens.

Over those 15 years I had paid over 500k in income tax yet I got exactly the same as anyone else on Jobseekers, whether they had ever worked or contributed a penny.

Is that fair?

In France for example if that were to happen to me I would be paid a higher jobseekers on a sliding scale over 2 years as I would be a nett contributor to the system.

This is a retrospective question as I am now working. But just wanted peoples views on this

RayM · 15-05-2014 12:01AM

Why stop at the dole? Is it fair that people who drive expensive cars (and therefore pay higher VRT and motor tax) aren't given priority over everybody else at traffic lights?

Or would that be fucking ludicrous?

SafeSurfer · 15-05-2014 12:01AM

No.

beazee · 15-05-2014 12:04AM

You should have the rainy day fund established which, after 15yrs in employment and €0.5 mil in taxes alone, should be enough to sustain your level of living.

Sir Arthur Daley · 15-05-2014 12:05AM

You will get a job soon enough op, celtic tiger 2.0 is kicking off next week.

Idiopath · 15-05-2014 12:07AM

I think it's a good idea, my father worked very hard for over 30years and certainly paid his fair share of tax. He found himself out of work for about a little over a year and received the same as a fella who'd never paid a penny into the country.
Hard work should be remembered in hard times.
People who refuse to work should not be endlessly compensated by those of us who do.

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo · 15-05-2014 12:11AM

I think it should be but its the type of system you need to implement when unemployment is lower and we aren't running a deficit.

There's something wrong with a system where someone who has worked 15 years can only claim the same amount as someone who has spent the past 15 years not working, and I would suspect the person who hasn't worked for the previous 15 years would probably be on higher money, whether because of medical card or housing or whatever.

B.A._Baracus · 15-05-2014 12:11AM

500 grand?
How in the hell? That means you would have been paying 35 grand a year in tax. if that was the case you would be a millionaire. the dole would be nothing to you.

Your name wouldn't be jack a' nory by any chance? :pac:

Celly Smunt · 15-05-2014 12:11AM

Idiopath wrote: »

I think it's a good idea, my father worked very hard for over 30years and certainly paid his fair share of tax. He found himself out of work for about a little over a year and received the same as a fella who'd never paid a penny into the country.
Hard work should be remembered in hard times.
People who refuse to work should not be endlessly compensated by those of us who do.

It is remembered,it's called a pension.

darkpagandeath · 15-05-2014 12:11AM

Idiopath wrote: »

I think it's a good idea, my father worked very hard for over 30years and certainly paid his fair share of tax. He found himself out of work for about a little over a year and received the same as a fella who'd never paid a penny into the country.
Hard work should be remembered in hard times.
People who refuse to work should not be endlessly compensated by those of us who do.

Any figures to backup these wild claims ? How many people are refusing to work ?

RayM · 15-05-2014 12:13AM

Idiopath wrote: »

I think it's a good idea, my father worked very hard for over 30years and certainly paid his fair share of tax.

But should your father, who worked very hard for over 30 years, receive less in Jobseekers Allowance than someone who worked less hard for around 10 or 20 years, but in a much higher paying job (and therefore contributed more in taxes)? Because that, unless I'm mistaken, seems to be what the OP is suggesting.

Stheno · 15-05-2014 12:13AM

B.A._Baracus wrote: »

500 grand?
How in the hell? That means you would have been paying 35 grand a year in tax. if that was the case you would be a millionaire. the dole would be nothing to you.

Your name wouldn't be jack a' nory by any chance? :pac:

Someone on approx 85-90k pays 35 grand a year plus in taxes (paye/usc/prsi) as a paye worker.

http://www.deloitte.ie/tc/Results.aspx Almost 34 grand for an 85k salary

http://www.deloitte.ie/tc/Results.aspx Almost 36 grand for a 90k salary

http://www.deloitte.ie/tc/Results.aspx almost 42 grand for a 100k salary

Makes a mockery of people on here complaining about high earners not paying taxes

For all three, that's a marginal rate of approx 40% of total income going in taxes

Celly Smunt · 15-05-2014 12:13AM

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Any figures to backup these wild claims ? How many people are refusing to work ?

There are hundreds of thousands of them! they're turning down jobs requiring java developers with 10 years experience every day!

How dare they!

Tail Docker · 15-05-2014 12:14AM

B.A._Baracus wrote: »

500 grand?
How in the hell? That means you would have been paying 35 grand a year in tax. if that was the case you would be a millionaire. the dole would be nothing to you.

Your name wouldn't be jack a' nory by any chance? :pac:

Here's the news, people pay high taxes, and they live, which eats up their salary. If i stop working, i get zero, the lad who paid nothing gets the dole. The OP is suggesting a fair system, i.e no chance of it happening in Ireland.

D1stant · 15-05-2014 12:15AM

B.A._Baracus wrote: »

500 grand?
How in the hell? That means you would have been paying 35 grand a year in tax. if that was the case you would be a millionaire. the dole would be nothing to you.

Your name wouldn't be jack a' nory by any chance? :pac:

Wow that took 8 posts.

Toots · 15-05-2014 12:15AM

I think it depends. You might have someone who doesn't earn a whole lot but works hard and pays their taxes for 20 years then gets laid off, and another person who works equally hard but happened to be earning a lot more money and then gets laid off. I don't think one should get more than the other. That being said, the dole shouldn't just be paid indefinitely to anyone and everyone.

dreamers75 · 15-05-2014 12:17AM

You need "stamps" to get the dole so yes it should be proportionate to wage/tax rsi you paid.

Why have stamps if everyone gets the same? 18 year old with no intentions of getting a job gets the same as someone who had a job for 15 years paying X amount.

yes it should be that way.

Hoster · 15-05-2014 12:18AM

Any other countries who have successfully implemented this strategy?

scuba8 · 15-05-2014 12:18AM

It could be argued that at the height of the Celtic tiger era, when about 500,000 people had come into the country to take up employment we still had about 150,000 people in receipt of unemployment benefit. One could say that they really did not want to work.
I am not agreeing with the OP but there are a lot of people who do not want to work.

theKillerBite · 15-05-2014 12:19AM

Toots* wrote: »

I think it depends. You might have someone who doesn't earn a whole lot but works hard and pays their taxes for 20 years then gets laid off, and another person who works equally hard but happened to be earning a lot more money and then gets laid off. I don't think one should get more than the other. That being said, the dole shouldn't just be paid indefinitely to anyone and everyone.

Hmmm I'm not so sure. The dole provides a safety net to everyone in the country, without the country would experience rioting, robberies, and generally descend into a hellhole like Eygpt when the economy turns for the worst.

darkpagandeath · 15-05-2014 12:19AM

dreamers75 wrote: »

You need "stamps" to get the dole so yes it should be proportionate to wage/tax rsi you paid.

Why have stamps if everyone gets the same? 18 year old with no intentions of getting a job gets the same as someone who had a job for 15 years paying X amount.

yes it should be that way.

Any figures for these people ? They sound made up to me.

Capt'n Midnight · 15-05-2014 12:20AM

You would have been able to claim back some income tax for the bit of the year you didn't work.

And unlike someone on minimum wage you could have set things like bin charges, pensions , mortgage relief, bike to work etc. against higher rate tax.

D1stant · 15-05-2014 12:20AM

Toots* wrote: »

I think it depends. You might have someone who doesn't earn a whole lot but works hard and pays their taxes for 20 years then gets laid off, and another person who works equally hard but happened to be earning a lot more money and then gets laid off. I don't think one should get more than the other. That being said, the dole shouldn't just be paid indefinitely to anyone and everyone.

Who is the judge of how hard you have worked? That is not something that can be measured by the system. They can measure how much tax you have contributed to the country

darkpagandeath · 15-05-2014 12:21AM

scuba8 wrote: »

It could be argued that at the height of the Celtic tiger era, when about 500,000 people had come into the country to take up employment we still had about 150,000 people in receipt of unemployment benefit. One could say that they really did not want to work.

Is there not a section of Irish society that has 80% of them on the dole ? Would that not skew the figures a tad.

hfallada · 15-05-2014 12:22AM

It should be like German speaking countries. You get 70% of your previous salary and then after 6 months its slowly reduced. Meaning people have time to find a decent job again. But when someone who has never worked a day in their life gets the same pension as a person who works for their entire life. You know are welfare system is ****ed up.

But I feel sorry for the self-employed who pay PRSI, but arent entitled to benefits when work dries up. There is no incentive to work in this country and I told a whack job socialist running in the local election that. He was trying to tell the bottom 20% of irish society pay more tax than the top 10%. He didnt know what to see when I told him that Ireland has the second fairest tax system in the OECD and you can actually earn €10,300 without paying a single cent in tax

dreamers75 · 15-05-2014 12:22AM

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Any figures for these people ? They sound made up to me.

lots of things sound made up for people for After Hours.

Call it experience.....

TeddyTedson · 15-05-2014 12:22AM

D1stant wrote: »

I lost my job in 2012 after 15 years. It was a high paying job which I loved, but sh1t happens.

Over those 15 years I had paid over 500k in income tax yet I got exactly the same as anyone else on Jobseekers, whether they had ever worked or contributed a penny.

Is that fair?

In France for example if that were to happen to me I would be paid a higher jobseekers on a sliding scale over 2 years as I would be a nett contributor to the system.

This is a retrospective question as I am now working. But just wanted peoples views on this

You were probably over paid.
For example I work with people who do the exact same job as me, for fewer hours however and are earning 90K a year!!!
I'm on a turd of their salary!

RayM · 15-05-2014 12:23AM

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Is there not a section of Irish society that has 80% of them on the dole ? Would that not skew the figures a tad.

Traveller-bashing and dole-bashing. This is shaping up to be one of those threads...

Stheno · 15-05-2014 12:23AM

Hoster wrote: »

Any other countries who have successfully implemented this strategy?

The German Hartz iv system is quite harsh

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

You would have been able to claim back some income tax for the bit of the year you didn't work.

And unlike someone on minimum wage you could have set things like bin charges, pensions , mortgage relief, bike to work etc. against higher rate tax.

No tax relief on bin charges for the past few years, mortgage relief only applies for the first seven years of a mortgage and is treated seperately from income taxes

Pension relief is restricted dependant upon age

darkpagandeath · 15-05-2014 12:25AM

RayM wrote: »

Traveller-bashing and dole-bashing. This is shaping up to be one of those threads...

Who's bashing ? Stating a fact is not allowed ?

relax carry on · 15-05-2014 12:26AM

dreamers75 wrote: »

You need "stamps" to get the dole so yes it should be proportionate to wage/tax rsi you paid.

Why have stamps if everyone gets the same? 18 year old with no intentions of getting a job gets the same as someone who had a job for 15 years paying X amount.

yes it should be that way.

Slightly off topic but why do people still refer to PRSI contributions as stamps? There haven't been any PRSI stamps since the 70's.

Should the Dole be proportional to how much tax you have paid?

Should Dole be proportional to taxes contributed for a set jobseeker period 312 votes

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