Bloody emigrants

The Domonator · 14-05-2014 10:28PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=768h3Tz4Qik

Maphisto · 14-05-2014 10:36PM

Antar Bolaeisk wrote: »

Stupid question, how do they know when someone leaves the country to live/work abroad?

I've always wondered that too.

When we moved back we took an extended holiday for the first 6 months - who knew.

Plus there are quite a few "back and over" types with addresses here and UK, live here but drive UK reg cars and use the NHS for any health stuff. Where are they counted?

A Dub in Glasgo · 14-05-2014 10:38PM

Maphisto wrote: »

Plus there are quite a few "back and over" types with addresses here and UK, live here but drive UK reg cars and use the NHS for any health stuff. Where are they counted?

In the scrounger lists

NTMK · 14-05-2014 11:12PM

theteal wrote: »

I'm not seeing this resentment thing. There were no jobs. People with any gumption got off their arse and went where the jobs were, got experience and bettered themselves. Those that didn't go stayed with mammy, drew the welfare and stagnated (massive generalisations on both sides). On a normal planet surely any resentment should be towards the layabout and not vice versa?

the resentment will come from the same people that were bitter about us leaving and those that return wont give two ****s about it as its usually the layabouts that are the most bitter

I personally didnt want to be a burden on the state any longer than i was and left

Legs.Eleven · 14-05-2014 11:21PM

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

They did not and will not contribute to the recovery which will enable them to be the first to take full advantage. Why would we take tax advice from people who have taken a decision to leave anyway?

Instead of protesting or engaging in politics or whatever they upped and left.

Did you protest or get involved in politics?

AngryHippie · 14-05-2014 11:36PM

theteal wrote: »

I'm not seeing this resentment thing. There were no jobs. People with any gumption got off their arse and went where the jobs were, got experience and bettered themselves. Those that didn't go stayed with mammy, drew the welfare and stagnated (massive generalisations on both sides). On a normal planet surely any resentment should be towards the layabout and not vice versa?

Wow, the sweeping generalizations are out in full force on this one.
I know plenty of people who would leave if they could, but are either tied to properties, or have family commitments or are employed and are terrified of losing that. That is fair enough. It's a similar proportion to the people that left to get a job, get experience and get some cash.

I don't think there should be much resentment on either side to be honest. The ones who will end up resentful are the ones that could have gone, but prefer to stay local, and have missed out on a few years work experience, a few years wages and some good times for the sake of sticking with the familiar. They have only themselves to blame, and that is usually the biggest source of resentment.
Personally I can't see myself ever being in that situation, as from afar, nothing has changed there. There has been no mentality shift in the Oireachtas nothing has been done to future-proof or better the country, and its gradually sliding backwards in both appeal and relevance as a place to live. Not that anywhere else is better or worse in any real terms, just more appealing and better able to fulfill my needs. The days of what you can do for your country are dead and gone, as all your country can do for you is give you a form and tell you to wait in line.:rolleyes:

dd972 · 15-05-2014 12:57AM

*yawn*

It's only in Ireland that the people who stay are deemed to be the ''super Irish'' and the ones who leave or leave and come back again regarded as scum of some sort.

Go to any airport terminal the world over, there's people coming and going, some for good, others coming back, the Scots don't look down their noses at Canadians of Scottish heritage and so on.

Kermit.de.frog · 15-05-2014 03:05AM

Emigrating was the EASY choice in the last few years. Make no mistake about it.

I can't understand people making emigrants out to be heroes. They had no part to play in getting this country out of the mess it was in. Now they want the benefits and will flock back soon enough and questions do have to be asked about unemployment in that situation.

They abandoned the country and now expect to be first on the list in the recovery.

wotswattage · 15-05-2014 03:21AM

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Emigrating was the EASY choice in the last few years. Make no mistake about it.

I can't understand people making emigrants out to be heroes. They had no part to play in getting this country out of the mess it was in. Now they want the benefits and will flock back soon enough and questions do have to be asked about unemployment in that situation.

They abandoned the country and now expect to be first on the list in the recovery.

I'm sure loads of them are coming back and starting their own businesses here. You have a problem with that too?

*I'm astounded with this attitude that someone who got up off their ar$e and went out and found work wherever it was is somehow the baddie in this situation?!?!?
What would you prefer they did?

SeantheMan · 15-05-2014 03:22AM

Maphisto wrote: »

I've always wondered that too.

When we moved back we took an extended holiday for the first 6 months - who knew.

Plus there are quite a few "back and over" types with addresses here and UK, live here but drive UK reg cars and use the NHS for any health stuff. Where are they counted?

I wonder about it too.

Maybe it's to do with the documents you have to get apostilled in the Dept of Foreign Affairs when applying for Visas

Kermit.de.frog · 15-05-2014 03:24AM

AngryHippie wrote: »

Personally I can't see myself ever being in that situation, as from afar, nothing has changed there. :rolleyes:

So in a nutshell you expect US to do the change for YOU? You should be here along with the many others helping get that change. But you are not. You took the easy option and now have the cheek to preach from "afar" when you don't live here, don't contribute here and have no intention of coming back.

Good riddance. One less as far as i'm concerned.

Calibos · 15-05-2014 03:39AM

So was Noonan correct after all?

http://www.thejournal.ie/noonan-young-emigrants-not-driven-away-by-unemployment-331911-Jan2012/

He was castigated for those comments a few years ago.

One wonders of he was kinda correct or correct but for the wrong reasons so to speak.

That the wave of emmigration caused by the recent recession was different from previous waves in that even the emmigre's viewed it as a short term thing till things improved at home. Whereas in the past things were so depressing with little hope/sign of improvements even in the medium/long term that if one decided to emmigrate one anticipated it being for good or long term and setting up a new life abroad. An emmigrant back then looking back over the previous 40-50 years would see little improvement in the countries prospects and thus assume the same going forward. When my Aunt/Uncle emmigrated to Perth 40 years ago it was a 6 week boat trip. However with this wave it was more like, "Sure theres no jobs here at the moment anyway, I may as well do the travel/work abroad thing for a few years until things improve at home. If things don't work out I can be home within 30 hours." This time the emmigrants at least know that although we fcuked it up this time, the 'Real' Celtic Tiger years in the 90's and early 2000's and the massive changes to the country in that time, at least showed the potential of the country and it is now concievable that things can be good again and worth coming home to. Totally different dynamic to an emmigrant in the early 60's say looking back over the previous 40 years to independance and seeing little change in prospects for the country over that period and correctly assuming as it turned out, the same for the next 30 years till the dawn of the 90's.

I think we are in a much better position this time round in terms of emmigration. In the past it was medium/long term by necessity/logistics. Chances were that a significant percentage of those we had invested in educationally were not coming back. Best and Brightest/Brain Drain etc. This time we are far more likely to have our cake and eat it. ie. Pressure relief valve on the welfare system by them going for a few years while things are bad here but a far greater likelyhood this time of them coming back with money,skills and experience earned abroad with no permenant brain drain and loss to the country of the educational investment in them.

I don't understand this, "You're either with us or against us" or "Us & Them" mentality. The country needed some of the best and brightest to stay and some of the best and brightest to go for a while. Neither group did anything wrong??

pablomakaveli · 15-05-2014 04:28AM

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

So in a nutshell you expect US to do the change for YOU? You should be here along with the many others helping get that change. But you are not. You took the easy option and now have the cheek to preach from "afar" when you don't live here, don't contribute here and have no intention of coming back.

Good riddance. One less as far as i'm concerned.

What are you doing to change things?

qdawg86 · 15-05-2014 05:16AM

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

They did not and will not contribute to the recovery which will enable them to be the first to take full advantage. Why would we take tax advice from people who have taken a decision to leave anyway?

Instead of protesting or engaging in politics or whatever they upped and left.

Please regale us with stories of your 'protesting' and 'engagement in politics'

You sound jealous that you missed out.

I'm away now. No way was I going to stay at home sitting on the dole. I'm having a blast, I'll be able to save some cash and I'll return whenever I want and spend my money on what ever I want.

No input required from you whatsoever.

Nodin · 15-05-2014 05:22AM

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Emigrating was the EASY choice in the last few years. Make no mistake about it.

I can't understand people making emigrants out to be heroes. They had no part to play in getting this country out of the mess it was in. Now they want the benefits and will flock back soon enough and questions do have to be asked about unemployment in that situation.

They abandoned the country and now expect to be first on the list in the recovery.

Sad, tbh.

AngryHippie · 15-05-2014 06:01AM

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Emigrating was the EASY choice in the last few years. Make no mistake about it.

I can't understand people making emigrants out to be heroes. They had no part to play in getting this country out of the mess it was in. Now they want the benefits and will flock back soon enough and questions do have to be asked about unemployment in that situation.

They abandoned the country and now expect to be first on the list in the recovery.

That is a moronic statement

Abandoned it ?

I don't think that is a reasonable assessment of the situation at all.

Particularly if the alternative was to stay here and be a part of the problem (Long term welfare recipient = Economic Burden)
Particularly if they come back with money to re-invest in the economy (Net gain for the country)
Especially if they come back with more experience and skills (Net gain for the country)

It sounds like someone has a chip on their shoulder about it all.

There is no attitude that fits all people on this topic. To judge everybody on the basis of a statement like that above says a lot about the small minded parochial bullsh1te that makes a lot of the people that "abandoned" the country never want to set foot in it again.

If you want to make this about the country, make it about the fools that ran it into the ground, not the ones that swam for the shore.

I wouldn't deem statements made on the basis of an article from the Indo to be particularly well informed either, so I'd suggest trying something less sensational like something peer-reviewed :
http://mpra.ub.uni-muenchen.de/19176/
http://www.migrationpolicy.org/article/circular-migration-keeping-development-rolling
[URL="keldon, R. (2012). Going Round in Circles: Circular Migration, Poverty Alleviation and Marginality. International Migration, 50"][/URL]
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1468-2435.2012.00751.x/abstract

The point in most of those circular migration studies is that the people most affected by migration is .....Shock......Horror.....The migrants.
So how about you button it about people who work their butts off to make a life for themselves, took a few risks and got a win.:mad:

AngryHippie · 15-05-2014 06:16AM

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

So in a nutshell you expect US to do the change for YOU? You should be here along with the many others helping get that change. But you are not. You took the easy option and now have the cheek to preach from "afar" when you don't live here, don't contribute here and have no intention of coming back.

Good riddance. One less as far as i'm concerned.

I'm not sure who exactly US and them are.

I'm one of US, I'm Irish.
I'm one of THEM, I left (Originally for a working holiday, Roll the Dice life change)

I'm AFAR, as it's working out well for me.
I'm probably not going back as I will have a$$holes resenting my bit of luck in life
I'm probably not going back as people keep electing clowns to run the country
I'm probably not going back as the Maple 10 and their enablers are still walking the streets
I'm probably not going back as the public service is still at breaking point and is not sustainable.

There are too many of the "others" resisting change in parochial Ireland for it to ever happen without a serious social upheaval, and I've studied enough history to know that those kind of changes cause total chaos. Small changes and reforms will be fought for and passed, and the wheel will keep on spinning, but from AFAR, you can see that the hamster is dead.

I'm not preaching, I'm pointing out something that is as obvious as dogs balls to anyone who can see a bigger picture. If I had the answers, I would preach.

As for it being the easy option, I don't know how many nights you have spent shivering in a Donga in the bush after milking cows, mustering and fixing fences for 16 hours a day. I don't know how many times you have been in a city utterly alone with a bag full of dirty clothes and the price of a bus fare to your name. I don't know how many times you have had people from YOUR HOME accuse you of ABANDONING them because you couldn't face being old and broke as your parents had to.

Easy choice ? Get fcuked.:mad:

Antar Bolaeisk · 15-05-2014 06:55AM

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Emigrating was the EASY choice in the last few years. Make no mistake about it.

I can't understand people making emigrants out to be heroes. They had no part to play in getting this country out of the mess it was in. Now they want the benefits and will flock back soon enough and questions do have to be asked about unemployment in that situation.

They abandoned the country and now expect to be first on the list in the recovery.

It's hardly the easy choice, while some aspects of life are certainly going to be simpler it comes with it's own set of challenges and hardships.

You're also over-simplifying the situation, people live and work abroad for a variety of reasons, it's not all about fleeing a sinking ship.

NZ_2014 · 15-05-2014 07:37AM

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Emigrating was the EASY choice in the last few years. Make no mistake about it.

I can't understand people making emigrants out to be heroes. They had no part to play in getting this country out of the mess it was in. Now they want the benefits and will flock back soon enough and questions do have to be asked about unemployment in that situation.

They abandoned the country and now expect to be first on the list in the recovery.

You are unbelievable. The easy choice would be to claim the dole.

It takes balls for people to get up off their hole and go get work abroad where it was almost impossible to find here. Fair play to them and they come back better for it

theteal · 15-05-2014 07:46AM

The first post here gave the impression of sitting on the fence by the OP asking if it could be a genuine source of resentment. The OP's last post went full-on troll.

"the first on the list in the recovery", ffs, the job is advertised, the best candidate gets it's, it's a global marketplace, whomever gets the job could be from the back arse of indo-china for all I care. People need to buck up and open their eyes!

Skatedude · 15-05-2014 07:54AM

How sad. we live on a small island on a huge planet and people are getting grief over wanting to see a little bit more of the planet we live on?

CruelCoin · 15-05-2014 08:00AM

Mahogany wrote: »

Population is growing, not receding, my friend.

Yup, hence the "Impending property bubble mark II: extreme cute hoor edition"

shruikan2553 · 15-05-2014 09:04AM

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Emigrating was the EASY choice in the last few years. Make no mistake about it.

I can't understand people making emigrants out to be heroes. They had no part to play in getting this country out of the mess it was in. Now they want the benefits and will flock back soon enough and questions do have to be asked about unemployment in that situation.

They abandoned the country and now expect to be first on the list in the recovery.

Who is saying they are heroes? They left the country and got a job. Did people on the dole get us out of this mess? What were you doing to save the country?

FTA69 · 15-05-2014 09:07AM

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Emigrating was the EASY choice in the last few years. Make no mistake about it.

I can't understand people making emigrants out to be heroes. They had no part to play in getting this country out of the mess it was in.

Yeah I know I'd a sweet time of it. I moved over with my girlfriend at the time who was a nurse, absolutely zero prospects for her either when we moved. Having lived together for years she ended up working in Surrey while I was in London, we saw each other a day a week if we were lucky. I was doing an internship and to facilitate this had to do two jobs. I worked 45 hours a week for poverty wages in a pub as well as managing to pick up a labouring job in construction carrying fire doors around a large building site in Holloway Road. When I wasn't at that I was labouring brick layers in another site in Tottenham. I usually had an hour in the evenings to wash before having to pull pints and clean until around 1am.

I know at the time I was really guilty for not hanging around claiming the dole in the name of patriotism.

Similarly what have you personally done to "drag us out of the mess"? Were you politically active trying to change the sordid system that ran Ireland into the ground in the first place? Or did you simply sit on your hole and make do like most others?

You would seriously want to pull your head out of your arse lad.

15-05-2014 09:16AM

Nice work on dodging all the questions OP.

pundy · 15-05-2014 12:34PM

you've no right to moan at all OP... yeah they may be coming back and taking up employment, but if you know that there's jobs out there, and you do now after finding out people are returning to work here, then why not go out and get one of these jobs and stop moaning that others are taking them?

Nippledragon · 15-05-2014 12:39PM

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Emigrating was the EASY choice in the last few years. Make no mistake about it.

I can't understand people making emigrants out to be heroes. They had no part to play in getting this country out of the mess it was in. Now they want the benefits and will flock back soon enough and questions do have to be asked about unemployment in that situation.

They abandoned the country and now expect to be first on the list in the recovery.

What an idiotic post. Easy choice my hole. People left Ireland to find work, rather than sitting on their arses & claiming everything off the state that they could, like a lot of people in Ireland did. Lots of people working for cash in hand and claiming at the same time, thievery FFS. Dole in Ireland approx 180? dole in uk approx 60, lots of people in Ireland were very quick to sign on with the lure of an easy shift being breastfed by Mammy.

Begrudge, moan, hiss, hiss, isn't it shockin'.....

rgossip30 · 15-05-2014 01:39PM

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Emigrating was the EASY choice in the last few years. Make no mistake about it.

I can't understand people making emigrants out to be heroes. They had no part to play in getting this country out of the mess it was in. Now they want the benefits and will flock back soon enough and questions do have to be asked about unemployment in that situation.

They abandoned the country and now expect to be first on the list in the recovery.

I doubt if returning emigrants will find a welcome mat when they try to access benefits . The EU citizen has more rights in this regard ,EU treaty freedom of movement.

Nodin · 15-05-2014 01:43PM

rgossip30 wrote: »

I doubt if returning emigrants will find a welcome mat when they try to access benefits . The EU citizen has more rights in this regard ,EU treaty freedom of movement.

Untrue and without foundation.

Legs.Eleven · 15-05-2014 01:53PM

What a wind up merchant! Or at least I hope so.

Bloody emigrants

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