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HSE one of the most cost-effective in the world

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Comments

  • #32
    Stheno
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 51,685 Mod ✭✭✭✭Stheno


    Deleted User wrote: »
    You're agreeing that it makes no sense that the HSE could possibly be as good value as the NHS? Just checking :P

    Have to wonder how they could actually evaluate the US "system" since they have no central admin like the HSE or NHS.

    No sorry, I didn't explain in my post. I was thinking about where the spending is going, and of the fact that so much less is paid for privately in the NHS yet there costs are on a par with ours according to this study.

    If there was a breakdown of the spending I suspect you'd find there is more spend on admin here versus e.g. diagnostics tests than in the NHS


  • #33
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 25,909 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Stheno wrote: »
    No sorry, I didn't explain in my post. I was thinking about where the spending is going, and of the fact that so much less is paid for privately in the NHS yet there costs are on a par with ours according to this study.

    If there was a breakdown of the spending I suspect you'd find there is more spend on admin here versus e.g. diagnostics tests than in the NHS
    Probably more on admin alright, which is ironic given just how much the Brits complain about how inefficient the NHS apparently is. I think the complaints about wages here are undermined somewhat when you consider the amount of the NHS budget consumed by prescription costs and all the rest.


  • #34
    suicide_circus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,801 ✭✭✭✭suicide_circus


    I guess patients who die waiting on trolleys dont get counted as they never actually got to be treated?


  • #35
    porsche959
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,499 ✭✭✭porsche959


    It's a kick in the teeth for the Joe Duffy whingefest brigade so on that grounds alone I welcome this.


  • #36
    celticcrash
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 851 ✭✭✭celticcrash


    celticcrash wrote: »
    Cost effective, LOL

    I went in to Limerick University Hospital with chest pains.
    After an ECG and other tests, the doctor told me the results would be posted out to the consultant. I said, dont you mean internal post. No external post.

    So my results have to be brought down to the mailing office in the hospital.
    Than collected to be brought to Cork for sorting. than brought back up to Limerick General PO to be sorted, than a post man will deliver the results back to the Limerick University Hospital to be delivered to the consultant.

    Only in Ireland.

    Oh yea, by the time the post arrived back, I had a heart attack and died.


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  • #37
    Jawgap
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,296 ✭✭✭✭Jawgap


    celticcrash wrote: »
    Cost effective, LOL

    I went in to Limerick University Hospital with chest pains.
    After an ECG and other tests, the doctor told me the results would be posted out to the consultant. I said, dont you mean internal post. No external post.

    So my results have to be brought down to the mailing office in the hospital.
    Than collected to be brought to Cork for sorting. than brought back up to Limerick General PO to be sorted, than a post man will deliver the results back to the Limerick University Hospital to be delivered to the consultant.

    Only in Ireland.

    Post ? What is this 'post' you speak of?

    When I was living in the UK, I cracked an ankle playing rugby. Off to hospital, where I was x-rayed, etc and stuck back together. The GP then took over the after care.

    Was given an appointment by the hospital for the GP - attended as required and saw the Practice Nurse. My x-rays were available to her electronically over some dark, mysterious system known as d'interwebs........

    .......that was over 10 years ago..........and the HSE still uses the 'post'........how quaint :D


  • #38
    KilOit
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,082 ✭✭✭KilOit


    Jawgap wrote: »
    Post ? What is this 'post' you speak of?

    When I was living in the UK, I cracked an ankle playing rugby. Off to hospital, where I was x-rayed, etc and stuck back together. The GP then took over the after care.

    Was given an appointment by the hospital for the GP - attended as required and saw the Practice Nurse. My x-rays were available to her electronically over some dark, mysterious system known as d'interwebs........

    .......that was over 10 years ago..........and the HSE still uses the 'post'........how quaint :D
    That's only changing this year, X-rays had to be put onto CD to be posted to other hospitals, it really is the dark ages when it comes to some systems in healthcare in Ireland


  • #39
    Jawgap
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,296 ✭✭✭✭Jawgap


    KilOit wrote: »
    That's only changing this year, X-rays had to be put onto CD to be posted to other hospitals, it really is the dark ages when it comes to some systems in healthcare in Ireland

    And just to be clear about two things......(before someone starts in on me :))

    First, the NHS is not perfect, but it seems to get a bit more of the right things, right than the HSE.

    And second......there is no doubt in my mind that a large chunk of the clinical and allied staff in our hospitals are world class, let down by incompetent management and gombeen politicians.

    .......and A&E staff aren't paid enough......


  • #40
    Mr. Incognito
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,798 ✭✭✭Mr. Incognito


    Has anyone read the report.

    It has NOTHING to do the HSE.

    It takes economic spend compared to monthly death rates.

    In other words, how many people die per month verses how much we spend on health. In a country that had mass emigration in the 80s and rubbish healthcare to a modern western country other factors like diet, exercise, improvements in technology etc play a part.

    The results from the us are skewered by gun deaths for example.

    This study is simplistic in the extreme and the HSE is NOT shown to be cost effective. In fact we are the only country spending LESS proportionately on healthcare which is a bad thing.


  • #41
    Smidge
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,541 ✭✭✭Smidge


    Jawgap wrote: »
    Post ? What is this 'post' you speak of?

    When I was living in the UK, I cracked an ankle playing rugby. Off to hospital, where I was x-rayed, etc and stuck back together. The GP then took over the after care.

    Was given an appointment by the hospital for the GP - attended as required and saw the Practice Nurse. My x-rays were available to her electronically over some dark, mysterious system known as d'interwebs........

    .......that was over 10 years ago..........and the HSE still uses the 'post'........how quaint :D

    Think that's bad?
    One of my family members GP's practice DOESN'T have computers in the surgery(only one at the reception desk).
    Everyones information is in an ACTUAL filing cabinet in the Dr's room:eek:
    Their file is full of scraps of paper with their "medical notes" written on


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  • #42
    ressem
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 2,427 ✭✭✭ressem


    Anita Blow wrote: »
    That's true. There were reports recently the demonstrated the budget cuts to the HSE over the past 5 years resulted in a leaner health service. IE- Waiting lists & patient stats were improving while there was less money to be spent. But that by the beginning of this year, that had bottomed out and now budget cuts were beginning to damage services with waiting lists back on the rise.

    We could definitely free up some money to be spent on frontline services without having to increase the budget if FG/Labour had the balls to make the cuts necessary to admin in the HSE.


    It's efficiency expressed in % of GDP, so due to the unusual multinational transfers the HSE and irish private healthcare gets a really big head start over larger countries.
    The report uses figures up to 2005. So the 7.9% fall in 2010 with wage cuts since aren't incorporated. Nor the GDP seesawing.

    The big number is changes in society have decreased the mortality per million in the 15-75 age group from 10,374 in '79 to '81 to the 5,433 in '03-'05. Some will be healthcare, but a lot will be for other reasons.


  • #43
    Knasher
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,370 ✭✭✭Knasher


    I wouldn't read too much into this to be honest, because it honestly doesn't surprise me that much. Imagine it as a curve, when you cut funding then for a time you can provide the same level of service by gutting the facilities budget and pushing machines past the point where they really need to be replaced. So there is an initial spike in effectiveness per euro, just after the funding cut. However over time facilities break and funding will need to be reallocated to replace them, therefore after a while the effectiveness will drop to be in line with the expenditure.

    I suspect that we are on the leading edge of this curve, but I doubt we will be for long.


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