Halal meat - should it be labeled as such?

FrStone · 09-05-2014 10:07AM #1

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2623805/Our-shoppers-dont-care-meat-halal-claim-supermarkets-Retailers-face-backlash-saying-unnecessary-label-meats.html

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-27322350

Basically there seems to be furore in the UK at the moment over the Supermarkets not specifying that Halal meat is Halal.

Personally I think it should be labeled, it would allow Muslims no with certainty that what they are eating is Halal. It would also allow those who oppose the idea of Halal meat, not buy it by accident.

wes · 09-05-2014 10:29AM

Of course it should be.

They should also make sure that meat, that is labelled as such is actually Halal, as there have been cases, when it has not been. People should always be aware of what they are buying.

Having said that if we are being honest, people will probably completely ignore the information on the labels, as they do now.

GLaDOS · 09-05-2014 10:33AM

I wouldn't have a problem with it and there would be obvious benefits for those who abstain from other meat.

I wonder if supermarkets would be afraid of people avoiding the products, either out of fear of the unknown or actual bigotry.

Tokyo · 09-05-2014 10:55AM

Considering that not so long ago the same supermarkets couldn't guarantee that there wasn't horsemeat in their meat products, I'd imagine that they are reluctant to label meat anything that might come back to bite them in the future if it's found to be less than true...

Seaneh · 09-05-2014 11:02AM

Would make life easier for observant jews and muslims in Ireland anyway.

There are plenty of ethnic stores with Halal butchers in them in larger urban areas but outside of them it's hard going for Muslims in Ireland to find halal meat.
Outside of Dublin it's nearly impossible to find kosher meat in Ireland.

Menas · 09-05-2014 11:10AM

I lived in the UK during the mad cow crisis of the early 90s. I only ate halal meat as they were the only ones I would trust at the time.

Jawgap · 09-05-2014 11:20AM

Most meat you buy in supermarkets is slaughtered using Zabiha (hal al) methods.

I'm all for consumer choice and if it means people being better educated about where their meat comes from, how the animal was handled and how it was killed, then yes it would be a good idea.

Frankly, though, I don't people realise what goes on slaughterhouses and they don't want to know.

Plus, hal al means not a whole lot really - I'd rather know the animal was handled properly, stunned efficiently and and bled properly rather than whether it was done using Zabiha or Shechita (kosher) practices. Although Shechita methods would not be allowed in Ireland.

I'd prefer if they put the method (and number of attempts) of stunning on the packaging.

guttenberg · 09-05-2014 11:23AM

Jawgap wrote: »

Most meat you buy in supermarkets is slaughtered using Zabiha (hal al) methods.

I'm all for consumer choice and if it means people being better educated about where their meat comes from, how the animal was handled and how it was killed, then yes it would be a good idea.

Frankly, though, I don't people realise what goes on slaughterhouses and they don't want to know.

Plus, hal al means not a whole lot really - I'd rather know the animal was handled properly, stunned efficiently and and bled properly rather than whether it was done using Zabiha or Shechita (kosher) practices. Although Shechita methods would not be allowed in Ireland.

I'd prefer if they put the method (and number of attempts) of stunning on the packaging.

Is stunning not forbidden in halal?

Tokyo · 09-05-2014 11:24AM

Interesting to note that Denmark has recently banned kosher and halal slaughter for reasons of cruelty....

Tokyo · 09-05-2014 11:25AM

guttenberg wrote: »

Is stunning not forbidden in halal?

Yes, it is. The accepted method is to let the animal bleed out.

Slicemeister · 09-05-2014 11:26AM

If it wasn't Hal or Al that butchered it, no.

kylith · 09-05-2014 11:27AM

Jawgap wrote: »

Most meat you buy in supermarkets is slaughtered using Zabiha (hal al) methods.

I'm all for consumer choice and if it means people being better educated about where their meat comes from, how the animal was handled and how it was killed, then yes it would be a good idea.

Frankly, though, I don't people realise what goes on slaughterhouses and they don't want to know.

Plus, hal al means not a whole lot really - I'd rather know the animal was handled properly, stunned efficiently and and bled properly rather than whether it was done using Zabiha or Shechita (kosher) practices. Although Shechita methods would not be allowed in Ireland.

I'd prefer if they put the method (and number of attempts) of stunning on the packaging.

Untrue. Halal methods mean that the animal cannot be stunned before being slaughtered (which is why I don't want to buy it as I consider it cruel). There are few slaughterhouses in Ireland that use halal methods.

Jawgap · 09-05-2014 11:31AM

mike_ie wrote: »

Yes, it is. The accepted method is to let the animal bleed out.

No, it's not. With Islamic slaughter stunning is permitted as the animal need only be alive at the time of slaughter.

Kosher slaughter, however, prohibits stunning because stunning represents an injury and at the time of slaughter the animal must be uninjured.

Jester252 · 09-05-2014 11:34AM

mike_ie wrote: »

Yes, it is. The accepted method is to let the animal bleed out.

Not correct, Halal butcher are allowed to stun the animal if they want/have to.

In any regard all meat should be labelled for what it is, I try my best to only buy meat that can be traced back to the farm.

kylith · 09-05-2014 11:37AM

Jawgap wrote: »

No, it's not. With Islamic slaughter stunning is permitted as the animal need only be alive at the time of slaughter.

Kosher slaughter, however, prohibits stunning because stunning represents an injury and at the time of slaughter the animal must be uninjured.

The Islamic method states that the animal must be killed with a single cut, which cannot be guaranteed if the animal is stunned.

afatbollix · 09-05-2014 11:46AM

I think they should put a label that showed the animal was slaughtered by stunning first.

I would eat Halal meat if if the animal was stunned first.

Jawgap · 09-05-2014 11:46AM

kylith wrote: »

Untrue. Halal methods mean that the animal cannot be stunned before being slaughtered (which is why I don't want to buy it as I consider it cruel). There are few slaughterhouses in Ireland that use halal methods.

Again, that's not true. The requirement is for the animal to be alive, which allows it to be stunned.

From the Halal Food Authority who certify businesses etc

What now becomes abundantly clear for halal purposes is that:
An animal should not be dead prior to slaughter

A Muslim should perform slaughter

Any flowing blood of the carcass should be completely drained

Choice of modern and in vogue method has to be considered with caution and, it should be in line with Islamic principles

Plus more slaughterhouses than you realise use halal methods. what usually prevents them is the availability of a Muslim to carry out the slaughter (or they don't want to go down the road of using another 'person of the book (e.g a Christian))

Halal doesn't bother me - I'd rather eat meat from an efficiently slaughtered Halal animal than a botched 'conventional' slaughter where the g0bsh1te with the stunner takes 3 to 4 attempts to put the poor animal down.

Jawgap · 09-05-2014 11:48AM

afatbollix wrote: »

I think they should put a label that showed the animal was slaughtered by stunning first.

I would eat Halal meat if if the animal was stunned first.

All meat sold in the EU has come from animals that have been stunned (or should have been stunned!)- they could however put the number of attempts it took to bring the animal down on the label along with the method used.

Dermighty · 09-05-2014 11:48AM

It's hilarious to me that people differentiate between driving a metal slug through a cows brain and cutting its throat.

mulbot · 09-05-2014 12:35PM

guttenberg wrote: »

Is stunning not forbidden in halal?

it is yep and it's a horrible disgusting thing to kill any animal without having the respect to make sure the death is as quick,humane and stressfree as possible!!

(and i've worked my teenage years and through college in the same meat factory who had the humane treatment of animals-however from time to time hal al methods were allowed**they would bring in their own slaughterman**

wes · 09-05-2014 12:41PM

mulbot wrote: »

it is yep

As others have pointed out that is not the case, as a lot Halal is actually stunned. Now some do insist on no stunning occurring, but they are a minority in Europe. Also to note that most of Halal meat in Europe is stunned:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-18187137

But EU research from 2006 indicated that 75% of cattle, 93% of sheep and 100% of chickens slaughtered in the UK for halal meat were stunned prior to their deaths. Figures produced by the Food Standards Agency (FSA) in 2011 give a similar picture: 84%, 81% and 88%, respectively.

So as you can see from the above figures, most use the stunning method.

mulbot · 09-05-2014 12:43PM

wes wrote: »

As others have pointed out that is not the case, as a lot Halal is actually stunned. Now some do insist on no stunning occurring, but they are a minority in Europe. Also to note that most of Halal meat in Europe is stunned:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-18187137

So as you can see from the above figures, most use the stunning method.

ah ok,it's been a while since i worked there-it's not a nice method anyway,

Jawgap · 09-05-2014 12:46PM

mulbot wrote: »

it is yep and it's a horrible disgusting thing to kill any animal without having the respect to make sure the death is as quick,humane and stressfree as possible!!

(and i've worked my teenage years and through college in the same meat factory who had the humane treatment of animals-however from time to time hal al methods were allowed**they would bring in their own slaughterman**

Sorry, but that is just not true.

I've worked in slaughterhouses here and the UK and been involved in the supervision and licensing of them (in the UK) - most of the requirements relating to halal are already present in the existing legislation and stunning is permitted - in fact if they were slaughtering without stunning then it was illegal.

Most of the time when they bring in their own slaughterman it's because they need a Muslim to administer the 'coup de grace' and to make sure the right prayer is said.

Tokyo · 09-05-2014 12:48PM

There has been a certain amount of compromise made in Europe and North America (and New Zealand if I'm not mistaken) with regards to stunning. Where government requirements have made stunning compulsory, halal authorities have accepted animals which are stunned with strict requirements and measures in place to ensure that the animal is alive when slaughtered apparently. The more staunch followers of the practice though will refuse to eat animals which have been processed this way, and in other parts of the world stunning is not accepted at all.

Caliden · 09-05-2014 01:21PM

Jawgap wrote: »

Sorry, but that is just not true.

I've worked in slaughterhouses here and the UK and been involved in the supervision and licensing of them (in the UK) - most of the requirements relating to halal are already present in the existing legislation and stunning is permitted - in fact if they were slaughtering without stunning then it was illegal.

Most of the time when they bring in their own slaughterman it's because they need a Muslim to administer the 'coup de grace' and to make sure the right prayer is said.

It would also be extremely dangerous to attempt to slaughter a cow if it wasn't stunned.
Imagine a 750kg animal strung upside down flailing around, recipe for disaster

Holsten · 09-05-2014 01:36PM

Yes of course it should.

Complete silliness to me but it hours e labels as such so the Muslims can be happy.

Chinasea · 09-05-2014 01:58PM

Should'nt be sold full stop. Disgusting archaic practice.

keyboard_cat · 09-05-2014 02:44PM

Dermighty wrote: »

It's hilarious to me that people differentiate between driving a metal slug through a cows brain and cutting its throat.

There is a huge difference would you be happy getting surgery without being knocked out first?

LoonyLovegood · 09-05-2014 02:54PM

As long as the animal is killed as painlessly as possible, who cares if it's Halal or not? (apart from those whose religions mandate it to be halal)

Dodge · 09-05-2014 03:00PM

Chinasea wrote: »

Should'nt be sold full stop. Disgusting archaic practice.

As opposed to the happy clappy modern slaughter of other religions/non-believers

shedweller · 09-05-2014 03:02PM

Caliden wrote: »

It would also be extremely dangerous to attempt to slaughter a cow if it wasn't stunned.
Imagine a 750kg animal strung upside down flailing around, recipe for disaster

They have steel frames for holding them upside down while the cut is made. Its all (in some cases at least) mechanised and efficient. Doesnt end well for the cow though and in my opinion is a cruel way to end an animals life. Liveleak has the videos if anyone wants to see how its done. Some of you "who cares" people might change your tune afterwards.

Halal meat - should it be labeled as such?

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