Ming: Garda in to heroin dealing

drunkmonkey · 09-05-2014 12:23AM

nelly17 wrote: »

I know which one I'd rather potentially see back on the street

Yea there bustin a lot of herion operations lately, good to see the Gardaí taking some initavie and busting people for herion to add a bit of balance, can't always be hating on the pot heads.

mikom · 09-05-2014 12:31AM

The indo's........... the only lads and lassies keeping a fire lit under the stuffed shirts, the bluffers, career politicians, yes men, and the nepotists.
Long may they continue.

nelly17 · 09-05-2014 12:31AM

No it would be better to see the cops not handing the drugs back to drug dealers at all I think your missing the overall point for the sake of carcastic dick waving

bobmalooka · 09-05-2014 12:34AM

drunkmonkey wrote: »

He's being dealing with drug dealers ever since he started smoking. I doubt he'd deny that himself as it's one of the reasons he wants it to be legalised. It's completely founded.
I don't think he's done anything wrong as it's a bull**** law but it's still the law and he's preaching.

Has he? I'm nearly sure he has said in the past he has grown his own.

Don't forget it isn't Flanagan making these accusations, he is publicising them on behalf of the Garda concerned.

09-05-2014 12:36AM

I'd believe Ming on this one. About 7-8 years ago a few of us were out in Waterford. We were using those legal highs at time and probably looked off our heads, when this guy came up to us asking if we had any coke for sale. Told him no then asked could we get him some, said no again. He kept annoying us by asking could we get him some like a complete weirdo and totally blowing our buzz when one of my mates hit him. My mate then got charged for assaulting a Gardai.

drunkmonkey · 09-05-2014 01:29AM

Your mates a legend.

Potential-Monke · 09-05-2014 02:28AM

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

If the commissioner handed me a badge in the morning I could get him 20 or 30 arrests and fines for all manner of offences while still going about my business every day. They must be putting more effort in to manufacturing the stats than if they just took a wander around and arrested people.

If only it was that straight forward. People wouldn't believe the amount of time and effort it takes to correctly prosecute someone for drugs offences these days. Remember, the law is very firmly on the side of the criminals, and nearly each day new laws or judgments change how a Garda can do his/her job.

You wouldn't have time to make 20/30 arrests a day, between:
- making sure you have the sufficient grounds for stopping and searching
- ensuring you use all the correct words and laws
- making sure the person understands why they're being searched/arrested
- transporting back to the station
- correct and contemporaneous notebook entries
- commencing and completing a custody record
- ensuring proper chain of evidence in relation to the drug
- ensuring correct procedures are taken in relation to forwarding the drug for analysis
- waiting a serious length of time before results come back
- completion of a file (which in itself can be a monumental task to ensure everything is correct and that no holes can be found, however minute)
- awaiting a direction on the file, which can take a good while if the file has to go to the DPP
- summons to be issued
- awaiting service of the summons
- first court date "for mention"
- completion of a Gary Doyle order
- second court date for hearing
- further court dates because criminals seem to get a seemingly unlimited amount of adjournments
- spending all day in court waiting for to be called to give your evidence

That's just 1 file. And that's just drugs. Include searches, surveillance, meetings, training, rest days, annual leave, sickness, and the time gets very thin.

That's just an example, and in no way an attempt to excuse any wrongdoings of any Garda. It would be great if Gardaí could simple arrest someone who has drugs on them, charge them and get a conviction in court, but it's the background work that takes up 99% of the time, as simply finding drugs on people is not enough. It's not as straight forward as people think.

On topic, fair play to the whistleblower, members of AGS who act in this manner need to be weeded out (pun intended) and held accountable. Regardless of who broke the story (i'm not a fan of Ming, but i can appreciate his good work and efforts), it's something which, if true, needs to be sorted out.

WilyCoyote · 09-05-2014 04:12AM

Conmaicne Mara wrote: »

O'Connell street? Lol, try every village and town in the country.

Hey! Stop it. They're overstretched enough as it is according to themselves

Nodin · 09-05-2014 05:54AM

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Yea there bustin a lot of herion operations lately, good to see the Gardaí taking some initavie and busting people for herion to add a bit of balance, can't always be hating on the pot heads.

Other than sneering at ming and evidently furthering a personal gripe against post smokers, you wouldn't have anything to contribute on the actual substance of the thread would you?

EyeSight · 09-05-2014 06:57AM

Potential-Monke wrote: »

If only it was that straight forward. People wouldn't believe the amount of time and effort it takes to correctly prosecute someone for drugs offences these days. Remember, the law is very firmly on the side of the criminals, and nearly each day new laws or judgments change how a Garda can do his/her job.

You wouldn't have time to make 20/30 arrests a day, between:
- making sure you have the sufficient grounds for stopping and searching
- ensuring you use all the correct words and laws
- making sure the person understands why they're being searched/arrested
- transporting back to the station
- correct and contemporaneous notebook entries
- commencing and completing a custody record
- ensuring proper chain of evidence in relation to the drug
- ensuring correct procedures are taken in relation to forwarding the drug for analysis
- waiting a serious length of time before results come back
- completion of a file (which in itself can be a monumental task to ensure everything is correct and that no holes can be found, however minute)
- awaiting a direction on the file, which can take a good while if the file has to go to the DPP
- summons to be issued
- awaiting service of the summons
- first court date "for mention"
- completion of a Gary Doyle order
- second court date for hearing
- further court dates because criminals seem to get a seemingly unlimited amount of adjournments
- spending all day in court waiting for to be called to give your evidence

That's just 1 file. And that's just drugs. Include searches, surveillance, meetings, training, rest days, annual leave, sickness, and the time gets very thin.

That's just an example, and in no way an attempt to excuse any wrongdoings of any Garda. It would be great if Gardaí could simple arrest someone who has drugs on them, charge them and get a conviction in court, but it's the background work that takes up 99% of the time, as simply finding drugs on people is not enough. It's not as straight forward as people think.

On topic, fair play to the whistleblower, members of AGS who act in this manner need to be weeded out (pun intended) and held accountable. Regardless of who broke the story (i'm not a fan of Ming, but i can appreciate his good work and efforts), it's something which, if true, needs to be sorted out.

If it's that bad they should push for reform rather than just do nothing.
It's funny how they always have so much man power for bank holiday weekend traffic offences but i have never ever seen them have a clamp down on drug use. Just one day in the OCS area of clamping down would show the druggies that maybe it's not such a hamsterdam afterall. Why not try it? Better than just pretending the problem doesn't exist

drunkmonkey · 09-05-2014 08:01AM

Nodin wrote: »

Other than sneering at ming and evidently furthering a personal gripe against post smokers

Those post smokers ruined my life, seriously though I'm 200% in the legalise camp. I just think Ming should thread softly on this one as like it or not pot is an illegal drug and he's heavily involved with it.

I'm not so sure this story is as clear cut as reported. It seems highy unbelievable that the Garda would frame ionnecent people for herion dealing, I just don't see it happening.

Andy-Pandy · 09-05-2014 08:14AM

You don't know that, define "heavily involved". I have it on good authority that since becoming a TD he's pretty much knocked it on the head. I'm sure there are plenty of guards out there that would see arresting him for possession as a prize arrest. He would loose his seat if convicted for possession, you can't just go about liebelling people online like this with absolutely no proof of anything.

drunkmonkey · 09-05-2014 08:24AM

I'd assume he has as well but at the same time he's been involved with illegal drugs for a long time.
What's getting my goat up is he needs the Gardaí on side to legalise pot but he's doing the absolute opposite, they will never back anything he proposes.

Andy-Pandy · 09-05-2014 08:46AM

You say that but he is the TD that this guard has chosen to channel these new allegations through, so there's at least one guard that trusts him more than any other members of the Dail, i am guessing that there are other rank and file guards that would feel similar.

drunkmonkey · 09-05-2014 08:54AM

Your talking about 2 people out of 10,000 +, he does not have the support of AGS, you also have to question these whistleblowers motives.

c_man · 09-05-2014 08:59AM

drunkmonkey wrote: »

It's completely founded.

Actually, he said he gave up the smoke once he became a TD. But that's not gonna be good enough for you is it?

Too Tough To Die · 09-05-2014 09:04AM

6781 wrote: »

I'd believe Ming on this one. About 7-8 years ago a few of us were out in Waterford. We were using those legal highs at time and probably looked off our heads, when this guy came up to us asking if we had any coke for sale. Told him no then asked could we get him some, said no again. He kept annoying us by asking could we get him some like a complete weirdo and totally blowing our buzz when one of my mates hit him. My mate then got charged for assaulting a Gardai.

Sounds like some top notch undercover work. They should make a movie about that cop.

Guy:Incognito · 09-05-2014 09:11AM

mikom wrote: »

The indo's........... the only lads and lassies keeping a fire lit under the stuffed shirts, the bluffers, career politicians, yes men, and the nepotists.
Long may they continue.

except when the join in for a bit of penalty point avoiding or "forget" to pay their taxes. If you were cynical enough you could think they want as much of other peoples law breaking to surface as possible to bury their own in to the forgotten past. Good job theres no election com...........

I'm all for exposing corruptness btw, but basically its different levels of corrupt people ratting each other out for gain.

Caliden · 09-05-2014 09:13AM

It's hilarious how Ming's views are immediately discredited because he used to smoke cannabis. A drug that is now on the road to being legal in the U.S. as the crusade against drugs has failed so badly.

Colorado hope to make ~$200 million in the first 18 months of making it legal and since being made legal, the number of people using the drug has not increased (despite what the opposition were predicting).

Ming is an intelligent person and always impresses me in any discussion/interview he has. Well spoken and to the point with very little waffle.

Guy:Incognito · 09-05-2014 09:16AM

Potential-Monke wrote: »

If only it was that straight forward. People wouldn't believe the amount of time and effort it takes to correctly prosecute someone for drugs offences these days. Remember, the law is very firmly on the side of the criminals, and nearly each day new laws or judgments change how a Garda can do his/her job.

You wouldn't have time to make 20/30 arrests a day, between:
- making sure you have the sufficient grounds for stopping and searching
- ensuring you use all the correct words and laws
- making sure the person understands why they're being searched/arrested
- transporting back to the station
- correct and contemporaneous notebook entries
- commencing and completing a custody record
- ensuring proper chain of evidence in relation to the drug
- ensuring correct procedures are taken in relation to forwarding the drug for analysis
- waiting a serious length of time before results come back
- completion of a file (which in itself can be a monumental task to ensure everything is correct and that no holes can be found, however minute)
- awaiting a direction on the file, which can take a good while if the file has to go to the DPP
- summons to be issued
- awaiting service of the summons
- first court date "for mention"
- completion of a Gary Doyle order
- second court date for hearing
- further court dates because criminals seem to get a seemingly unlimited amount of adjournments
- spending all day in court waiting for to be called to give your evidence

That's just 1 file. And that's just drugs. Include searches, surveillance, meetings, training, rest days, annual leave, sickness, and the time gets very thin.

That's just an example, and in no way an attempt to excuse any wrongdoings of any Garda. It would be great if Gardaí could simple arrest someone who has drugs on them, charge them and get a conviction in court, but it's the background work that takes up 99% of the time, as simply finding drugs on people is not enough. It's not as straight forward as people think.

On topic, fair play to the whistleblower, members of AGS who act in this manner need to be weeded out (pun intended) and held accountable. Regardless of who broke the story (i'm not a fan of Ming, but i can appreciate his good work and efforts), it's something which, if true, needs to be sorted out.

I wasn't just talking about drug offences. I could easily pull 5 or 6 a day for mobile phone use while driving, the same for seatbelts, similar for dangerous driving. I wouldn't mind but I generally drive Tallaght to Clondalkin and back via the M50 then a few short local trips a day. maybe 40 minutes driving.

Working in town in the run up to Christmas I could sit on Mary street and watch drug dealing going on. Walk down to the shop to get lunch and every lane has people banging up in them.

drunkmonkey · 09-05-2014 09:32AM

c_man wrote: »

Actually, he said he gave up the smoke once he became a TD. But that's not gonna be good enough for you is it?

No he didn't say he was giving it up, he said he was giving it up when in Ireland.
I'd vote for Ming all day long with his efforts to legalise, but he needs the support of the Gardaí.
Were in trouble now as he's the only one pushing for reform but he's become untouchable by other politicians. He's got no support.

roadrunner16 · 09-05-2014 09:35AM

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Yeah but..., oh I dunno, does this look like a guy you would trust?

http://www.breakingnews.ie/media/images/l/lukeMingFlanagan2013_large.jpg

I don't know, I don't judge a level of trust on the basis of appearances.

elefant · 09-05-2014 09:36AM

Drunkmonkey, your arguments are totally incoherent here.

I'm just saying he can't be preaching when he's not ionnecent himself. It's called being a hypocrite.

Ming should keep quiet because he once smoked weed in Ireland?

What's getting my goat up is he needs the Gardaí on side to legalise pot but he's doing the absolute opposite, they will never back anything he proposes.

Or Ming should keep quiet because he needs the Gardaí on his side? (Surely an awful, and very typical Irish political, reason to keep things under wraps)

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Your talking about 2 people out of 10,000 +, he does not have the support of AGS, you also have to question these whistleblowers motives.

Or, onto something completely different, we should question the whistleblower's motives? Let's just ignore the whole thing sure, it's only one lad.

I can no longer understand the point you are trying to make. You sure you don't just have a gripe against Ming?

Santa Cruz · 09-05-2014 09:46AM

Nodin wrote: »

Other than sneering at ming and evidently furthering a personal gripe against post smokers, you wouldn't have anything to contribute on the actual substance of the thread would you?

Is there any substance or is it a "he said she said " thread?

Boombastic · 09-05-2014 09:50AM

it seems mings pot smoking is more offensive to some people than scumbag gardai flooding the place with heroin.

I hope your son or daughter doesn't get at the heroin, or will you not mind because Ming wears a funny jumper. saddest thing is you think you are right.

and if the comments about mings appearance was directed at a female, this thread would be closed long ago and branded sick.
some people can't see the woods for the trees

@ drunkmonkey

'you have to question the whistleblowers motives?'
i'd be more concerned about questioning the motives of those that knew and stayed quiet, at least the whistleblower has balls, unlike a lot of serving members, we we nail a rat to his door too?

ooh look a distraction, a man with long hair

flutered · 09-05-2014 09:52AM

drunkmonkey wrote: »

By smoking/dealing in weed he's a criminal and at complete odds with our new ministers of justices view on weed.
He can't be a criminal and then go around calling the Gardaí criminals. He's got an obivious chip on his shoulder with the law and shouldn't be entertained while he's still a law breaker. He should clean up his act, get the legislation through that's needed to exonerate him of his criminal links and then he can start name calling until then he should be gagged.

if all one has against him is smoking some weed, then compared to some of the other inhabitants of the dail he is a certaintly to be canonised.

flutered · 09-05-2014 09:53AM

Santa Cruz wrote: »

Is there any substance or is it a "he said she said " thread?

is the substance not heroin.

Nippledragon · 09-05-2014 11:02AM

Ming is one of the more decent politicians we have in my opinion, we could do with more like him in the Dail. He hasn't reneged on his promises like the rest of the muppett show.

If what the whistle-blower says is true thats awful, but it wouldnt surprise me tbh. Padraic Nally should be the head of AGS anyways imo.

Potential-Monke · 09-05-2014 11:19AM

EyeSight wrote: »

If it's that bad they should push for reform rather than just do nothing.

They have been, for ages, but that's the downside to not being allowed into a union, or AGSI or the GRA not allowed to become a union. There's a ruling in Europe on the 25th of May i believe, and that ruling is looking like making it legal for members of AGS to join a union as the Government are currently in breach of Human Rights laws (i think it's HR) by not allowing members into a union (the online Police force in the world not allowed!). Once that happens, you will see change, for the better.

EyeSight wrote: »

It's funny how they always have so much man power for bank holiday weekend traffic offences but i have never ever seen them have a clamp down on drug use. Just one day in the OCS area of clamping down would show the druggies that maybe it's not such a hamsterdam afterall. Why not try it? Better than just pretending the problem doesn't exist

You see so much man power on bank holidays because members won't take bank holidays off due to the extra bit of cash it provides. And let me clarify, Traffic Corps is specifically for traffic related calls, that is their function within AGS. If people didn't break the rules of the road, there would be no need for traffic, and also there wouldn't be any fatalities caused by idiots driving at speed, on the phone, drunk, high, etc. The traffic laws are there for a reason, and no one would get caught if they stuck to the laws. It's that simple. Regardless of if it's a money making racket or not, how else would it be possible to stop people breaking the rules of the road? Hit people in their pockets works best.

As for the drug clamp downs, they are there. But it's never as simple as traffic stops, a lot more work is involved, and more specifically AGS need proper, legal grounds for stopping and searching. This involved a lot of background work. This is also why you don't see it as often as traffic stops. All traffic need is a direction for a checkpoint and they can stop vehicles all day. Drug searches cannot be random. They don't pretend the problem doesn't exist, it's just a massive problem and the "war on drugs" will never end, and just gets harder to win.

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

I wasn't just talking about drug offences. I could easily pull 5 or 6 a day for mobile phone use while driving, the same for seatbelts, similar for dangerous driving. I wouldn't mind but I generally drive Tallaght to Clondalkin and back via the M50 then a few short local trips a day. maybe 40 minutes driving.

Sit into a marked patrol car and suddenly people become angels on the road when they see the car coming. Most detections within traffic corps (while not on checkpoints) are caught by unmarked cars and marked bikes, 2 vehicles which are no where near as common as the marked cars. You say you'd get 5/6 or 3 different offences in 40 minutes? Not when each incident can take 10+ minutes to deal with. Again, it's not as straight forward as you think.

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Working in town in the run up to Christmas I could sit on Mary street and watch drug dealing going on. Walk down to the shop to get lunch and every lane has people banging up in them.

I can't speak for Dublin (don't go near that city, hate it!), so maybe it is that easy up there, but it's not that easy everywhere. Normally, drug units are on surveillance or searches, there is simply no man power to do it all. The main targets are the big dealers, stop them and you stop everyone under them (for a while at least). No point in bringing in the small dealer, because there's 10+ others who can replace him. It's the distributors that need to be caught. Yes, the smaller dealers and users do get arrested too, but with resources stretched thin the main priorities are the higher ups, and they take a lot of surveillance and background work.

It's unfortunate that the inner workings of AGS are not publicly known, but that's for operational and safety reasons. Yes, corruption happens, everyone is human. Maybe there wouldn't be corruption if it was a force of Robocops with no conscience. But then everyone would be arrested for the smallest of things and without discretion. The new Minister for Justice will hopefully be able to turn around the image of AGS, but that will take time. Hopefully she'll also get numbers back to proper operational numbers, and maybe then serious crime can be tackled properly again.

drunkmonkey · 09-05-2014 11:26AM

Can I just state that I'm pro weed and pro Mings weed campaign. What I'm not in favour of is Mings relentless campaign against AGS as it's hurting his pro weed campaign as the support of the Gardaí would be very welcome in progressing legalisation.
The whistleblowers don't have the support of any Garda I've spoken with and neither does Ming.

Ming: Garda in to heroin dealing

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