Bigger than Shatter - Our Puppet King

donfers · 07-05-2014 05:30PM #1

Ok Shatter has resigned after about a million gaffes, one man down - so what?

Phil Hogan and James Reilly have not yet reached the Enda Quota of a million gaffes before being forced to resign, both men are on about 950,000 screw-ups and counting.

What about the man in charge; the puppet king?

This probably just confirms what you already knew but a senior EU advisor,
Philippe Legrain, who advised Commission president Jose Manuel Barroso in 2011 until last year, has today commented on RTE.

Speaking on RTÉ's News at One, Mr Legrain said it was a mistake for the previous Government to guarantee all Irish bank debts, but it was outrageous for the ECB to threaten to force Ireland out of the monetary union if it failed to do so.
He said the behaviour within Europe amounted to the “very opposite of solidarity” to treat a partner in a bullying way.
Mr Legrain claimed the bullying came mostly from Germany and France, whose banks were exposed in Ireland.
He said other European banks should have been forced to suffer losses, instead of straddling Irish citizens with an unfair debt burden of €64bn.
He said if Irish ministers had faced down the ECB, it would have backed down.
He said they should have said it was “unjust and unbearable” for Irish people to bear debts.
“The currency is supposed to be a community of equals, it's meant to be an expression of our common Europeaneness,” Mr Legrain said.
“But instead of that it's being used as lever for banks in certain countries to impose unjust conditions on taxpayers in another country.”

If any of you vote for Fine Gael you will not be getting my gluten-free bread recipes by PM anymore.

I mean, what a spineless shell of a man, a guy who wants to be the nice obedient boy - Europe's prize pupil as we are basically defacated on by bankers and bureaurcrats.

His handling of his bumbling trio of ministers tells you everything you need to know about the man, it's not about integrity or competence or serving the Irish people; it's about the fact that they were loyal to him during a leadership challenge a few years ago.

He's just another careerist who has find himself in a position way above his abilities and who believes the only way to maintain that position is via the usual schmoozing, arse-kissing and cabal-building that got him there in the first place. Heaven forbid that we'd ever have a Taoiseach who actually thought the best way to maintain his postion was to do the right thing by the people, to stand strong, to govern.

This guy is an embarrassment to the nation.

the_barfly1 · 07-05-2014 05:40PM

well said

Amirani · 07-05-2014 05:40PM

The previous Government guaranteed bank debts. What did you want Enda and Co. to do?

drunkmonkey · 07-05-2014 05:41PM

Thinly Veiled vote FF thread.

on the river · 07-05-2014 05:43PM

hey give Shatter some credit . He wrote the saucey Novel 'Laura':D

Hootanany · 07-05-2014 05:53PM

Diego Simeone wrote: »

The previous Government guaranteed bank debts. What did you want Enda and Co. to do?

He rolled over and let Merkal tickle his belly

Amirani · 07-05-2014 05:54PM

Hootanany wrote: »

He rolled over and let Merkal tickle his belly

Would you rather some sabre-rattling and the same end result?

There's certainly valid criticisms to be made of the current Government, bank guarantees aren't one of them though.

donfers · 07-05-2014 05:58PM

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Thinly Veiled vote FF thread.

Nope I detest them too, the good people of boards.ieland will hopefully not ever vote for them

darkpagandeath · 07-05-2014 06:07PM

Germany looking after it's own interests.. shocking. Germany says short term pain for long term gain. Only gains I see are for Germany. Everyone seems to forget a few budgets ago Germany got to see our Proposed budget before We even got to see it. I’m not anti Germany but the EU in it’s current form only seems to benefit the heavy hitters it’s very one sided. Places like Ireland have to toe the line.

Son Of A Vidic · 07-05-2014 06:15PM

Diego Simeone wrote: »

The previous Government guaranteed bank debts. What did you want Enda and Co. to do?

Maybe by using the mandate they were given and not honouring the spineless acquiescence of the previous government. Even just exposing the level of bullying and pressure, that coerced the previous government into the guarantee would have been something. The convenient case of the disappearing letters did not help matters. But like the previous incumbents, they were quickly pulled into line. Then of course embarrassing their masters was never a realistic proposition.

Odyssey 2005 · 07-05-2014 06:20PM

Diego Simeone wrote: »

The previous Government guaranteed bank debts. What did you want Enda and Co. to do?

NOT ANOTHER RED CENT, I think that was how they phrased it in order to cheat us into voting for them.

mikom · 07-05-2014 06:22PM

Diego Simeone wrote: »

Would you rather some sabre-rattling and the same end result?

There's certainly valid criticisms to be made of the current Government, bank guarantees aren't one of them though.

I'd say Kenny has more a penknife that a sabre tbh.

Wicklowrider · 07-05-2014 06:27PM

donfers wrote: »

His handling of his bumbling trio of ministers tells you everything you need to know about the man, it's not about integrity or competence or serving the Irish people; it's about the fact that they were loyal to him during a leadership challenge a few years ago.

He's just another careerist who has find himself in a position way above his abilities and who believes the only way to maintain that position is via the usual schmoozing, arse-kissing and cabal-building that got him there in the first place. Heaven forbid that we'd ever have a Taoiseach who actually thought the best way to maintain his postion was to do the right thing by the people, to stand strong, to govern.

This guy is an embarrassment to the nation.

Amen to that.
His Justice/Defence minister is forced to "resign".
What does Kenny do on the national news? Sing Shatter's praises!
Vote FG - the party that values law breaking ministers.
Gombeen self serving hypocrites.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1 · 07-05-2014 06:27PM

To the streets men!

Man the barricades!

I don't like what has been done over the past 3 years but I also see that they have dug us out of the s***e hole we were thrown into.

Foxhound38 · 07-05-2014 06:27PM

donfers wrote: »

Ok Shatter has resigned after about a million gaffes, one man down - so what?

Phil Hogan and James Reilly have not yet reached the Enda Quota of a million gaffes before being forced to resign, both men are on about 950,000 screw-ups and counting.

What about the man in charge; the puppet king?

This probably just confirms what you already knew but a senior EU advisor,
Philippe Legrain, who advised Commission president Jose Manuel Barroso in 2011 until last year, has today commented on RTE.

Speaking on RTÉ's News at One, Mr Legrain said it was a mistake for the previous Government to guarantee all Irish bank debts, but it was outrageous for the ECB to threaten to force Ireland out of the monetary union if it failed to do so.
He said the behaviour within Europe amounted to the “very opposite of solidarity” to treat a partner in a bullying way.
Mr Legrain claimed the bullying came mostly from Germany and France, whose banks were exposed in Ireland.
He said other European banks should have been forced to suffer losses, instead of straddling Irish citizens with an unfair debt burden of €64bn.
He said if Irish ministers had faced down the ECB, it would have backed down.
He said they should have said it was “unjust and unbearable” for Irish people to bear debts.
“The currency is supposed to be a community of equals, it's meant to be an expression of our common Europeaneness,” Mr Legrain said.
“But instead of that it's being used as lever for banks in certain countries to impose unjust conditions on taxpayers in another country.”

If any of you vote for Fine Gael you will not be getting my gluten-free bread recipes by PM anymore.

I mean, what a spineless shell of a man, a guy who wants to be the nice obedient boy - Europe's prize pupil as we are basically defacated on by bankers and bureaurcrats.

His handling of his bumbling trio of ministers tells you everything you need to know about the man, it's not about integrity or competence or serving the Irish people; it's about the fact that they were loyal to him during a leadership challenge a few years ago.

He's just another careerist who has find himself in a position way above his abilities and who believes the only way to maintain that position is via the usual schmoozing, arse-kissing and cabal-building that got him there in the first place. Heaven forbid that we'd ever have a Taoiseach who actually thought the best way to maintain his postion was to do the right thing by the people, to stand strong, to govern.

This guy is an embarrassment to the nation.

Who would you have us vote for then, OP?

Lapin · 07-05-2014 06:36PM

On the downside, Shatter was introducing some long overdue reforms to the legal profession.

They probably won't happen now.

The happiest people in Ireland today are the lawyers.

on the river · 07-05-2014 06:37PM

Lapin wrote: »

On the downside, Shatter was introducing some long overdue reforms to the legal profession.

They probably won't happen now.

The happiest people in Ireland today are the lawyers.

I agree he was exposing the legal system and introducing real reform.

Hope that continues under the new minister.

Woodville56 · 07-05-2014 06:41PM

Diego Simeone wrote: »

The previous Government guaranteed bank debts. What did you want Enda and Co. to do?

One word -Govern ! He had an electoral mandate to go to Europe and face down the Franco/German/Dutch bullying and he took the soft option for Europe but not for the people of Ireland. His regime has been one of reactive not proactive politics, far removed from the pre-election manifestos of both Fine Gael & Labour. His handling of the Shatter debacle is not "Governing" nor is his kid gloves handing of health in the form of his buddy Dr Reilly. Good intentioned and well motivated he may have been in opposition but his political light weightedness has been exposed over and over. His administration may have turned the finances of this country round a difficult corner, but at an awful cost and hardship to the Irish people, a fact that Mr Kenny and his colleagues in government seem to be unaware of . That will become clearer to him after May 23rd elections, when the government parties get a kicking from those who have repeatedly been kicked over the past years by penal taxation and cutbacks at the instigation and diktat of Kenny's friends in Europe. This government "muddles " it's way from crisis to crisis , it's not "Governing" !

Foxhound38 · 07-05-2014 07:03PM

Woodville56 wrote: »

One word -Govern ! He had an electoral mandate to go to Europe and face down the Franco/German/Dutch bullying and he took the soft option for Europe but not for the people of Ireland. His regime has been one of reactive not proactive politics, far removed from the pre-election manifestos of both Fine Gael & Labour. His handling of the Shatter debacle is not "Governing" nor is his kid gloves handing of health in the form of his buddy Dr Reilly. Good intentioned and well motivated he may have been in opposition but his political light weightedness has been exposed over and over. His administration may have turned the finances of this country round a difficult corner, but at an awful cost and hardship to the Irish people, a fact that Mr Kenny and his colleagues in government seem to be unaware of . That will become clearer to him after May 23rd elections, when the government parties get a kicking from those who have repeatedly been kicked over the past years by penal taxation and cutbacks at the instigation and diktat of Kenny's friends in Europe. This government "muddles " it's way from crisis to crisis , it's not "Governing" !

What does "facing them down" entail precisely?

Dropping the debt and balancing the budget immediately? Any idea how much more pain that would have inflicted on the Irish people than what actually happened under the bailout programme?

The bank guaruntee was stupid, but it was done and dusted before the last government left office - that was a Cowan/Lehnihan mistake.

How do you propose we maintain enough money in the coffers to continue the funding of the State without the bailouts we got?

Davarus Walrus · 07-05-2014 07:04PM

I'll be giving my local FG candidate (Brian Hayes) my number one preference in the European elections. With my 2nd preference going to Emer Costello of the Labour Party.

I'll also be giving FG and Labour my 1st and 2nd votes in the next General Election. I think this Government has done a really good job considering the unprecedented circumstances they faced upon taking office. Having to take that much money out of the economy will always result in higher taxes and cuts to services. I think they did a reasonably good job of balancing that. There isn't a magic elixir that could solve all the problems - despite what people like SF and the loony left go on about. Tis very easy be populist when you don't have to make any decisions.

Wicklowrider · 07-05-2014 07:07PM

Griffin Mango Sarcasm wrote: »

I don't like what has been done over the past 3 years but I also see that they have dug us out of the s***e hole we were thrown into.

I thought USC, Property Tax and all those nasty things Enda and the good guys inherited from the "previous administration " were what was paying off the debts? In other words, while Enda and Co are giving whistleblowers grief or getting tickled by Sarkozy or misusing private data, we are paying our way out trouble.

Spring Onion · 07-05-2014 07:08PM

Foxhound38 wrote: »

Who would you have us vote for then, OP?

I actually expect a new party or two by the next GE. God knows we need alternatives. This government have been a huge disappointment.

I agree with the OP, socialising the private debt into our national debt is ruining this country and will continue to ruin this country until we get debt forgiveness (not sure that's the correct word seeing as though it was unfair to begin with).

Tail Docker · 07-05-2014 07:10PM

Odyssey 2005 wrote: »

NOT ANOTHER RED CENT, I think that was how they phrased it in order to cheat us into voting for them.

Yes, but then Kenny was summoned and sat down and informed that he would have his balls in his mouth if he sought to renege pretty much literally. I don't forgive his spinelessness - he should have hard-balled it - but I do understand why he did what he did. Still makes him a gutless wonder though. Nothing new there.

Arthur Beesley · 07-05-2014 07:12PM

Hootanany wrote: »

He rolled over and let Merkal tickle his belly

Who or what is Merkal?

Spring Onion · 07-05-2014 07:12PM

Davarus Walrus wrote: »

I'll be giving my local FG candidate (Brian Hayes) my number one preference in the European elections. With my 2nd preference going to Emer Costello of the Labour Party.

I'll also be giving FG and Labour my 1st and 2nd votes in the next General Election. I think this Government has done a really good job considering the unprecedented circumstances they faced upon taking office. Having to take that much money out of the economy will always result in higher taxes and cuts to services. I think they did a reasonably good job of balancing that. There isn't a magic elixir that could solve all the problems - despite what people like SF and the loony left go on about. Tis very easy be populist when you don't have to make any decisions.

You like paying other people's debts then? Good, you're just what FG & Labour and FF want.

Amirani · 07-05-2014 07:13PM

Spring Onion wrote: »

You like paying other people's debts then? Good, you're just what FG & Labour and FF want.

They're Irish sovereign debts now, have been since the bank guarantee.

Foxhound38 · 07-05-2014 07:16PM

Spring Onion wrote: »

I actually expect a new party or two by the next GE. God knows we need alternatives. This government have been a huge disappointment.

I agree with the OP, socialising the private debt into our national debt is ruining this country and will continue to ruin this country until we get debt forgiveness (not sure that's the correct word seeing as though it was unfair to begin with).

Debt forgiveness at this stage isn't even a decision any government has available to it - the forgiveness we need is a writedown from the bailout providers, but we don't really have a way to force them to do it.

We could repudiate it altogether I suppose, but that would likely destroy the country and turn us into an even bigger basketcase.

In fairness to Kenny etc, things do seem to be getting better. Gaffe prone as they are, things are picking up economically and it's starting to show. I don't vote FG (tend to go indo these days and intend to do the same this time around) but they and Labour will be getting a high preference from me when the time comes.

Spring Onion · 07-05-2014 07:20PM

Diego Simeone wrote: »

They're Irish sovereign debts now, have been since the bank guarantee.

I know. So that's it then? Done deal, lets all knuckle down and pay them for the next few decades.

Yes forgiveness = write-offs. We need that banking debt written off or we will wallow in austerity.

Amirani · 07-05-2014 07:21PM

Spring Onion wrote: »

I know. So that's it then? Done deal, lets all knuckle down and pay them for the next few decades.

Yes forgiveness = write-offs. We need that banking debt written off or we will wallow in austerity.

Why would any of our lenders choose to give us write-offs?

Foxhound38 · 07-05-2014 07:28PM

Spring Onion wrote: »

Yes forgiveness = write-offs. We need that banking debt written off or we will wallow in austerity.

The big question is: how?

Why would they write off our debt? What possible reason could they have for doing so?

Muise... · 07-05-2014 07:29PM

Foxhound38 wrote: »

Who would you have us vote for then, OP?

Some Triple A Golden Maverick, I suspect.

Bigger than Shatter - Our Puppet King

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