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1500 Year Old Bible Confirms That Jesus Christ Was Not Crucified – Vatican In Awe

  • 03-05-2014 02:04PM
    #1
    HandoLogan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 72 ✭✭


    Much to the dismay of the Vatican, an approx. 1500-2000 year old bible was found in Turkey, in the Ethnography Museum of Ankara. Discovered and kept secret in the year 2000, the book contains the Gospel of Barnabas – a disciple of Christ – which shows that Jesus was not crucified, nor was he the son of God, but a Prophet. The book also calls Apostle Paul “The Impostor”. The book also claims that Jesus ascended to heaven alive, and that Judas Iscariot was crucified in his place.

    report by The National Turk says that the Bible was seized from a gang of smugglers in a Mediterranean-area operation. The report states the gang was charged with smuggling antiquities, illegal excavations, and the possession of explosives. The books itself is valued as high as 40 Million Turkish Liras (approx. 28 mil. Dollars). Man, where is the Thieves Guild, when you need them?
    According to reports, experts and religious authorities in Tehram insist that the book is original. The book itself is written with gold lettering, onto loosely-tied leather in Aramaic, the language of Jesus Christ. The text maintains a vision similar to Islam, contradicting the New Testament’s teachings of Christianity. Jesus also foresees the coming of the Prophet Muhammad, who would found Islam 700 years later.

    It is believed that, during the Council of Nicea, the Catholic Church hand-picked the gospels that form the Bible as we know it today; omitting the Gospel of Barnabas (among many others) in favor of the four canonical gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John. Many biblical texts have begun to surface over time, including those of the Dead Sea and Gnostic Gospels; but this book especially, seems to worry the Vatican

    What does this mean to Christian-derived religions and their followers? Quite a tight spot. The Vatican has asked Turkish authorities to let them examine the contents of the book within the Church. Now that the book has been found, will they come to accept the it and its evidence? Will they deny it altogether? Call it a “Muslim lie”, as did the “Truth” Magazine, in 2000? To many, this book is a beacon of hope, that believers soon realize that the object of their adoration is arbitrary; and that all text, especially religious text, is subject to interpretation.

    What does this mean to atheists/agnostics/secular thinkers? Is the text real? Fake? Does it matter? Hopefully, this news inspires the religious to ask questions, instead of pointing fingers or believing anything blindly. Please, don’t go poking fun or tossing around the “I told you so!”s. The biggest danger of faith is when people believe what they want to believe, defending against any and all evidence; especially when that evidence revolutionizes their foundation from the ground up. And the biggest culprit to that danger is the ego trap: rejecting/criticizing others, for being unlike you. For centuries, the “defense” of blind faith has driven nations to war, violence, discrimination, slavery and to become the society of automatons that we are today; and for just as long, it has been justified with lies. If you know better, act like it.


«13

Comments

  • #2
    OU812
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,102 ✭✭✭OU812


    Source?


  • #3
    HandoLogan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 72 ✭✭HandoLogan


    I would love to give the source, but for some reason the moderator's on this site have seen fit to remove my ability to post, photographs and links. If you view my other posts you will see why they saw fit to do this.... Personally I think it's kind of pathetic, not just any kind of pathetic but "P***y Pathetic" :(


  • #4
    HandoLogan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 72 ✭✭HandoLogan


    I would love to give the source, but for some reason the moderator's on this site have seen fit to remove my ability to post, photographs and links. If you view my other posts you will see why they saw fit to do this.... Personally I think it's kind of pathetic, not just any kind of pathetic but "P***y Pathetic" :(

    If you copy and past the title of the article into Google search bar, you will be able to find the Article.


  • #5
    TireeTerror
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,271 ✭✭✭TireeTerror


    Personally I believe anything at all to do with religion is an embarrassing joke and that anyone who defends such obvious drivel really ought to sit down and have a word with themselves.

    All religions are a complete and utter sham and they are designed as a means to control people. If anyone cannot see that, then that is their problem.

    The reaction people have about respecting others beliefs is just another example of how controlled we are. If a child is scared of monsters under the bed, we tell them they do not exist.....its the same principle only the goal is different and thats where its all a lot of garbage.


  • #6
    HandoLogan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 72 ✭✭HandoLogan


    TireeTerror wrote: »
    Personally I believe anything at all to do with religion is an embarrassing joke and that anyone who defends such obvious drivel really ought to sit down and have a word with themselves.

    All religions are a complete and utter sham and they are designed as a means to control people. If anyone cannot see that, then that is their problem.

    The reaction people have about respecting others beliefs is just another example of how controlled we are. If a child is scared of monsters under the bed, we tell them they do not exist.....its the same principle only the goal is different and thats where its all a lot of garbage.

    I like the way you think. If only we all thought in a similar way. THE TRUTH IS LIKE WATER, IT ALWAYS FINDS A WAY. A lot of people are running scared at the moment, because the bonds of ignorance that have kept us in check for so long are, are slowly but surly disintegrating.


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  • #7
    Toby Take a Bow
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,732 ✭✭✭Toby Take a Bow


    Things like this come around every couple of years, and I don't see why we should trust the veracity of this particular text (which seems to have been written later than the gospels) than any of the other non-Canonical gospels (or, indeed, the Canonical gospels).

    I would be very surprised if the Vatican were ever to accept that it's genuine. But even if it's 'genuine', it's simply one person's word against another (and the Vatican can simply say that it's a false account).

    If it is genuine, it would be interesting to give a picture of the varied and divided Christian/Jewish sects that existed at the time.


  • #8
    ABC101
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,048 ✭✭✭ABC101


    HandoLogan wrote: »
    The book also calls Apostle Paul “The Impostor”.

    I don't think Paul was an Apostle. He was not one of the original 12.

    I think Paul came along much later, he was a Jew who persecuted the early Christian Church.. and then had a conversion along the road to Damascus etc.


  • #9
    westmidlands
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 117 ✭✭westmidlands


    I just googled it like you said, I only looked on the first page but either the search result link is to a page not available or a forum. In fact this page is the second result. Is there actually a link to a genuine reputable article out there so I can read it myself? I know you can't post it but I would search a bit more if I knew there was. I think the first search result might be the one you are talking about but I get a 'This page is currently not available. Please try again later.' when I click on it.

    Also when did this story break? No newspapers picking it up?


  • #10
    Absolam
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,913 ✭✭✭Absolam


    I think that's a massive overplay of what it means to the RCC. I honestly don't think that the Vatican is in awe. I don't even think some people in the Vatican are in awe. At best, I think some people in the Vatican press corps are a little annoyed at the extra work they will have to do. The Church is well aware that there are plenty of non-canonical gospels out there, and another doesn't really make any difference. It's no secret that the RCC version of the bible has been reconstructed substantially over the centuries to suit whatever motivations required it, but the church will always maintain that it is divine guidance that makes their version the true one. Once you get down to 'because God' there's really no point in discussing further. I don't think the church has conspired to come up with its' version of the bible, it just set out to say 'we're right and if you say we're wrong you're going to hell so there'. Fairly above board really.


  • #11
    flanna01
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 971 ✭✭✭flanna01


    Was JC and his 12 goons.... Not the original first 'Mafia' family...

    Religion's the name, extortion's the game...?? It's a numbers racket, and still is to this day.


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  • #12
    the_syco
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,308 ✭✭✭✭the_syco


    HandoLogan wrote: »
    I would love to give the source, but for some reason the moderator's on this site have seen fit to remove my ability to post, photographs and links.
    It's related to your low post count.
    Posting a link: 50 posts and signed up for 10 days or more.
    Source for this is the FAQ located here.


  • #13
    zarquon
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,734 ✭✭✭zarquon


    Paul and Barnabas had a big dispute which the bible talks about in Acts 15 and then went their separate ways. It would be no surprise that if a text was subsequently written by barnabas it would be very disparaging of Paul.


  • #14
    the_syco
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,308 ✭✭✭✭the_syco


    Googled it, and found this. There's pictures.


  • #15
    Daithi 1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,006 ✭✭✭Daithi 1


    Beforeitsnews ?.... Thats the end of that so..


  • #16
    Beano
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,357 ✭✭✭Beano


    I read a few stories on that site. I think a couple of million brain cells decided to commit suicide.


  • #17
    Beano
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,357 ✭✭✭Beano


    In what does this recently discovered text prove anything? Assuming it is of the right age and has not been faked in any way this text on its own proves nothing. The OP talks about not believing anything blindly but surely if you take this text at face value then any belief that it is the word of god is as blind a belief as believing the existing biblical texts are the word of god. What is there about this text makes it superior to the existing gospels? At least there is some historical evidence that somebody similar to Jesus was crucified. I cannot see the catholic church being in any way perturbed by this text. It may be interested from a historical perspective but it will not change their beliefs or those of any of the faithful.


  • #18
    Emme
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,051 ✭✭✭Emme


    HandoLogan wrote: »
    According to reports, experts and religious authorities in Tehram insist that the book is original.

    They would say that, wouldn't they? :D
    HandoLogan wrote: »
    The book itself is written with gold lettering, onto loosely-tied leather in Aramaic, the language of Jesus Christ. The text maintains a vision similar to Islam, contradicting the New Testament’s teachings of Christianity. Jesus also foresees the coming of the Prophet Muhammad, who would found Islam 700 years later.

    So according to this book Jesus is a kind of John the Baptist figure for the Prophet Muhammad.


  • #19
    Absolam
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,913 ✭✭✭Absolam


    Well, Jesus is already a prophet in islam, so really it just indicates that the 'bible' that was discovered was a document written by muslims.


  • #20
    Darkglasses
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,527 ✭✭✭✭Darkglasses


    The fact that it's even suggested that there could be a 2,000 year old bible in existence is ridiculous. Go to the Chester Beatty library and take a look at what the oldest fragments of new testament manuscripts look like. Then ask a guide about textual variancy in the first millenium AD, and when a uniform bible started to appear. Ask about "heretical" movements in the early Christian era and the different writings that are out there.

    There's a lot of interesting stuff out there, and you'll be in a more informed position when seemingly ground-breaking texts like these come up in the news.


  • #21
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 295 ✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Vatican is in Awe.................... and there's me thinking it was in Rome.


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  • #22
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 295 ✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Beano wrote: »
    I read a few stories on that site. I think a couple of million brain cells decided to commit suicide.


    Jeez.......... hope you are ok:p


  • #23
    Beano
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,357 ✭✭✭Beano


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Jeez.......... hope you are ok:p

    Your concern for my wellbeing is appreciated. I am happy to report i have recovered. You may rest easy.


  • #24
    GoodLord
    Closed Accounts Posts: 445 ✭✭GoodLord


    ABC101 wrote: »
    I don't think Paul was an Apostle. He was not one of the original 12.

    I think Paul came along much later, he was a Jew who persecuted the early Christian Church.. and then had a conversion along the road to Damascus etc.

    He changed from being a non christian bigot to a christian bigot


  • #25
    jimeryan22
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,170 ✭✭✭jimeryan22


    TireeTerror wrote: »
    Personally I believe anything at all to do with religion is an embarrassing joke and that anyone who defends such obvious drivel really ought to sit down and have a word with themselves.

    All religions are a complete and utter sham and they are designed as a means to control people. If anyone cannot see that, then that is their problem.

    The reaction people have about respecting others beliefs is just another example of how controlled we are. If a child is scared of monsters under the bed, we tell them they do not exist.....its the same principle only the goal is different and thats where its all a lot of garbage.


    I feel very sorry for you... For your insight..
    See you on the other side.. Or not in your case


  • #26
    ///3power
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 123 ✭✭///3power




  • #27
    Wibbs
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,334 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    It's been known as a text long before this discovery and has been debunked as an early text by scholars in the field, believers and non believers alike. It gets too many historical and cultural details wrong and couldn't have been written by a bloke "on the ground" as it were. The best fit for it is that it's basically a late medieval rejig of the christian gospels to make them appear to agree with the teachings of Islam(though even gets a few theological details wrong there too).

    Just on an amateur front, I note it looks like vellum in the pics. Vellum was around in Roman times, but the oldest surviving vellum manuscript is from the 4th century. If original it would be more likely to have been written on papyrus like the Dead Sea scrolls. The use of gold writing is also anachronistic. Easiest way to settle this would be to carbon date a sample. If it gives a date of 100 then game ball, but I'll bet the farm it's more likely to return a date of 1600. I'll further bet they won't allow a C14 test.

    Many worry about Artificial Intelligence. I worry far more about Organic Idiocy.



  • #28
    ///3power
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 123 ✭✭///3power


    I dunno Wibbs. I mean you can't debunk something just because it ruffles a few feathers.

    I've read the arguments for and against, and how the Spanish and Italian translations describe things that were not present at the alleged time of writing. Things are always lost/added in translation.

    As for carbon dating. They carbon dated a live snail, turned out to be 27,000 years old LOL.

    While we're on the conspiracy pages, some people are suggesting that the last Pope resigned (the first to resign in some 600 years) after he received access to the gospel.

    The Roman Church inc. labels any and all gospels that don't suit them as "apocryphal".
    Of course there will also be a huge backlash from Christians who are having their fundamental beliefs about Jesus (peace be upon him) questioned, and the ones who suffer cognitive dissonance are most likely going to explore every avenue possible to "debunk" this text, by any means possible.

    The facts we know are that this text mentions aspects about Jesus's life found in the Qur'an, that are not found in accepted Christian doctrine. It also mentions details that are not found in the Qur'an, yet fit perfectly with it.

    If the text is indeed older than 1500 years, it would change everything as the Qur'an is only some 1400 years old.


  • #29
    Wibbs
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,334 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    ///3power wrote: »
    I dunno Wibbs. I mean you can't debunk something just because it ruffles a few feathers.
    When setting out to prove or disprove something objectivity is the order of the day. Does something pass muster or not? Simple as that. This really doesn't on a few levels. Add in that the main thrust to authenticate this document is coming from Islamic sources and you have the suspicion of vested interest(it was probably put together by a similar vested interest originally. I'd think the same if the Catholic church "discovered" a new Quran.
    I've read the arguments for and against, and how the Spanish and Italian translations describe things that were not present at the alleged time of writing. Things are always lost/added in translation.
    There are a fair amount of these anachronistic additions and a fair amount of anachronistic use of language with it. There are other texts, some much older that have survived without such issues. The writings of various ancient Greek scholars as an example.
    As for carbon dating. They carbon dated a live snail, turned out to be 27,000 years old LOL.
    That's an old tactic to discredit C14 dating. Sadly for debunkers it's an example of the reservoir effect, where an organism picks up extra C12 from its environment during its life(IIRC whalebones can sometimes give a similar result). This can massively reduce the amount of C14 left which gives rise to an erroneous result(Very basically, the less the % of C14 the older the sample). There are other issues that can lead to errors but these are also know about and factored in by researchers. With the vellum/leather in this case this would not be an issue. Contamination might be, but again it could be factored in*. Enough to say 100AD or 1500AD anyway.
    Of course there will also be a huge backlash from Christians who are having their fundamental beliefs about Jesus (peace be upon him) questioned, and the ones who suffer cognitive dissonance are most likely going to explore every avenue possible to "debunk" this text, by any means possible.
    Ah but you see, I don't have a horse in this race. Clearly you do by the addition of "PBUH" to Jesus. Me, I don't buy either story, the Quran, or the Gospels. Or more precisely I see them as likely having some historical truth varnished with theology, hagiography and later invention and addition.

    Scholarly examination of the various Christian canons has a long history from within and without the various Christian churches. EG quite the number of early Christian scholars saw stories like Genesis as theologically instructive metaphor not hard reality(Augustine for one). The joke is today you have Christians in the US who see it as fact.

    On the other hand scholarly examination of the Quran has been very limited. Internal scholarship is OK(up to a point), but questions of its origin are frowned upon, even dangerous to suggest. Ditto for the historicity of Mohammed himself. Even among the more vocal atheists there would be the belief that the gospels are unreliable and that Jesus may not have even existed as a real individual, but that the historicity of Mohammed is a given. The reality is a little different. Mohammed as an individual exists nowhere outside Muslim sources and the details of his life are only written down at least a century after the date given for his death.
    The facts we know are that this text mentions aspects about Jesus's life found in the Qur'an, that are not found in accepted Christian doctrine. It also mentions details that are not found in the Qur'an, yet fit perfectly with it.
    Which would come as no surprise for a text written after Islam came along.







    *on this point, the Shroud of Turin results were interesting. The initial results showed "ah yep late medieval fake". However further research showed that the samples were part of a repair interwoven with newer threads and this may have skewed the results. Personally speaking I'd bet the farm it's older. 8th century anyway and possibly earlier. I don't believe it's the burial shroud of Jesus, but there are records of a very similar shroud in Byzantine writings where said shroud was kept in a box and the folds of same are still evident on the Turin example. Plus the cloth is identical(as is the blood type) to the purported Sudarium of Oviedo which is recorded back in the 6th century and C14 dated to the 7/8th. For my mind the Shroud of Turin is a masterpiece of art and craft and a wonder of the world. Unreal for the late medieval, truly staggering if circa the 6th century.

    Many worry about Artificial Intelligence. I worry far more about Organic Idiocy.



  • #30
    ///3power
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 123 ✭✭///3power


    You do have a horse... He wont even finish


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  • #31
    Wibbs
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,334 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    Wow. Deep stuff that. Or not. This is a discussion forum you know? Not a "I dunno how to respond with a cogent rebuttal, so I'll come back with some faith based banality so you hopefully won't spot this" forum. Oh and BTW thanks to you and jimeryan22 for suggesting damnation on others. Very pleasant altogether. I do love the religious for this level of nonsense.

    Many worry about Artificial Intelligence. I worry far more about Organic Idiocy.



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