Peaches Geldof died due to heroin overdoseMOD NOTE: NO JOKES

dark crystal · 01-05-2014 03:03PM

nervous_twitch wrote: »

Choices aren't as simple as you make them out to be, when your will is controlled by the substance you're addicted to.

I don't believe for a second that addiction is black and white, good and evil. I don't believe addicts are all bad people who deliberately use to hurt their loved ones. It's an insidious disease, one I don't envy anyone having.

However, it WAS a choice, complex or not. She CHOSE to use heroin whilst being the sole carer of a very young child. She had the choice to seek help for her addiction, talk to someone about her cravings or to give her son to a trusted carer while she used, but she didn't. As a mother, there were numerous other choices she could have made in that situation, other than using heroin in her home that day. Absolving addicts of all responsibility for the choices they make does them no favours either, imo.

nervous_twitch · 01-05-2014 03:10PM

Omackeral wrote: »

True. But what about the first time taking it? That's a free choice is it not? It's tough to have sympathy for any heroin addicts in the western world, especially anyone in their 20's. Information is freer and more available than ever.

I agree that the choice was there to begin with; but we've all been naive. Everyone thinks they're invincible when they're young. For many, drugs are mistaken for an immediate, accessible medication. They can alleviate, if only temporarily, a lot of pain. I'm sure most alcoholics had no idea of the road set and measured for them when they had their first drink.

Corkgirl18 · 01-05-2014 03:13PM

Addiction is an awful affliction be it alcohol, cigarettes or drugs.
I don't think the results make it any less sad, it just might make it harder on the family to deal with.

Clandestine · 01-05-2014 03:13PM

Its far too easy for people on this board who are in a good state of mind to say something like "oh what was she thinking doing this, having kids and a family" etc.

When you are so dependent on something, especially a drug like heroin, nothing else matters to you. You know, life is hard, too hard for too many people. She just wanted some relief, I can't blame her harshly for that to be honest.

Amazingfun · 01-05-2014 03:14PM

nervous_twitch wrote: »

Maybe you'd be surprised :rolleyes:

Doubt it.

From my experience, which is considerable, most alkies/addicts know the kind of selfishness that pervades the active life. Only those looking for excuses sing the ole " it wasn't my fault" song.

nervous_twitch · 01-05-2014 03:16PM

dark crystal wrote: »

I don't believe for a second that addiction is black and white, good and evil. I don't believe addicts are all bad people who deliberately use to hurt their loved ones. It's an insidious disease, one I don't envy anyone having.

However, it WAS a choice, complex or not. She CHOSE to use heroin whilst being the sole carer of a very young child. She had the choice to seek help for her addiction, talk to someone about her cravings or to give her son to a trusted carer while she used, but she didn't. As a mother, there were numerous other choices she could have made in that situation, other than using heroin in her home that day. Absolving addicts of all responsibility for the choices they make does them no favours either, imo.

I don't think your reasoning is consistent; on the one hand you admit it's not black and white, but then you proceed to dismiss the complexity of addiction. The complexity is the problem. From experience, I don't think there is a lot of choice left when they get to a certain stage. It's out of their control.

nervous_twitch · 01-05-2014 03:20PM

Amazingfun wrote: »

Doubt it.

From my experience, which is considerable, most alkies/addicts know the kind of selfishness that pervades the active life. Only those looking for excuses sing the ole " it wasn't my fault" song.

I'm not suggesting addicts aren't accountable for their own behaviours. I do get irritated, though, when people dismiss the momentous task of overcoming a destructive compulsion as the sort of choice most of us make when deciding what to have for breakfast.

lukesmom · 01-05-2014 03:21PM

farmerjj wrote: »

nice but not bright

Very untrue. My little brother (22) was extremely bright and had oodles of intelligence but he also died a couple of years ago the same way as peaches geldof. Nothing to do with intelligence. It's a form of escapism. It's like a warm blanket that wraps tightly around you and feels like it's protecting you yet ironically it can cause overdose and prove fatal.

Amazingfun · 01-05-2014 03:23PM

nervous_twitch wrote: »

I'm not suggesting addicts aren't accountable for their own behaviours. I do get irritated, though, when people dismiss the momentous task of overcoming a destructive compulsion as the sort of choice most of us make when deciding what to have for breakfast.

I didn't see anyone do that.

stickybookmark · 01-05-2014 03:26PM

TheZohan wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kY3v2KQkGmE

Aye...

Strange watching that now eh; so many strong beliefs about what's best for baby and then takes class As while in sole charge of her 11 month old. Beggars belief.....

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo · 01-05-2014 03:27PM

nervous_twitch wrote: »

I don't think your reasoning is consistent; on the one hand you admit it's not black and white, but then you proceed to dismiss the complexity of addiction. The complexity is the problem. From experience, I don't think there is a lot of choice left when they get to a certain stage. It's out of their control.

She has to take some responsibility for her actions. Taking heroin when you are in the sole care of a child is a choice. She paid more than most for that choice but absolving her of any and all responsibility for what happened in that house, that day is gravely wrong.

RDM_83 again · 01-05-2014 03:28PM

Suryavarman wrote: »

Maybe she was a functioning addict or perhaps she was capable of going about her daily routine in the past when taking heroin. Only this time she unwittingly took more potent heroin than normal or overestimated her tolerance towards it. This could have resulted in her overdosing.

If I was in her shoes I probably would have got somebody else to mind the child (assuming I could find somebody) but then again I don't know how I would handle myself when taking heroin. If in past experiences it didn't overly inhibit my ability care for a child then maybe I would have tried to care him myself.

See this is the thing she wasn't some working class mother with limited resources that also has to struggle with addiction while caring for her kids as best she can and can't afford child minding.

It would have been so easy for her to have somebody around when she was shooting up, this isn't even me making the point that its selfish to put the drugs first because I can understand that people slip, its the fact that for someone who held herself up as a paragon of parenthood she could not manage to minimize the risks while still using.

Clandestine wrote: »

Its far too easy for people on this board who are in a good state of mind to say something like "oh what was she thinking doing this, having kids and a family" etc.

When you are so dependent on something, especially a drug like heroin, nothing else matters to you. You know, life is hard, too hard for too many people. She just wanted some relief, I can't blame her harshly for that to be honest.

This post sort of illustrates what I am not saying, I am not even criticizing her having an addiction, I am criticizing her apparent inability to manage her addiction in such a way that she was not putting her children at risk when doing so would not have involved any substantial sacrifices for herself.

Edit: Also its not like she herself didn't criticize others drugs use anyway

iguana · 01-05-2014 03:32PM

dark crystal wrote: »

Absolving addicts of all responsibility for the choices they make does them no favours either, imo.

I agree. I have quite a bit of experience with addicts and I've familiarised myself in so much as any lay person can about the neuro-chemical effects of addiction and how it can utterly impair brain function and the decision making process. I've also been in the shoes that I suspect her family may have been in, where a recovering addicted loved one has started abusing again and despite the fact that on some level you know, you go through complete cognitive dissonance and can't truly accept that it's happening again. I've experienced the pain it's caused, the vulnerability it leaves the children of the addict in and they are the most truly helpless in such situations as they even have to rely on the sober people to make the decision to take them out of the situation as they can't do that themselves. And even then, they still lose a parent, even if the parent is living.

But ultimately it is down to first the addict to make the choice to get help. Because as difficult as it is, it is a choice. And secondly the addict's family has the choice to either make the changes that force the addict to get help, to make sure the child is never in the sole care of the addict and to eventually, remove either the child or the addict from the situation. They are all choices. Not easy, what shall we have for dinner choices, but choices all the same. And to insist otherwise is to do a huge disservice to all the addicts, people with mental health disorders and their loved ones, who have worked damn, damn hard to make the tough choices when they had to.

Clandestine · 01-05-2014 03:32PM

RDM_83 again wrote: »

I am criticizing her apparent inability to manage her addiction in such a way that she was not putting her children at risk when doing so would not have involved any substantial sacrifices for herself.

I don't think you understand what happens to a person under a drug addiction.
The drug comes first, finding more of the drug comes second, everything else is an afterthought.

Tony EH · 01-05-2014 03:40PM

Henlars67 wrote: »

I really don't get why people who have everything going for them go down the heroin route.

It wouldn't be my kind of scene, but I do kind of understand the use of recreational drugs like cocaine, but why heroin?

It's called stupid.

lukesmom · 01-05-2014 03:42PM

Tony EH wrote: »

It's called stupid.

Not true. It's a form of escapism, a cover, a shield. It's highly dangerous and far too complex to be labelled as stupid.

Tony EH · 01-05-2014 03:46PM

anna080 wrote: »

I was cautiously apprehensive about commenting on previous threads about her until a cause had been confirmed. All the previous comments calling her a great mother; I'm sorry but a great mother doesn't use heroin with her young child sitting nearby. Disgraceful.

Agreed...and where did this "great mother" bollocks come from anyway? TBH, in anything I've seen of this self obsessed, famous for being famous, twitter yapping, non-entity, she's always come across as being a bit of a cupid stunt.

It actually did not surprise me one iota when I read that she checked out this way.

"Great mother" my arse.

Tony EH · 01-05-2014 03:47PM

lukesmom wrote: »

Not true. It's a form of escapism, a cover, a shield. It's highly dangerous and far too complex to be labelled as stupid.

It's a stupid thing to do. There is no debate.

RDM_83 again · 01-05-2014 03:48PM

Clandestine wrote: »

I don't think you understand what happens to a person under a drug addiction.
The drug comes first, finding more of the drug comes second, everything else is an afterthought.

And my point is at least for the night in question, the children weren't even an after thought or she would have given a baby-sitter/nanny/child minder a call but still be able to shoot up.
Its tragic and its sad but if some-one can't mitigate the potential impacts of their drug use on the most important people by one simple action (picking up the phone) in their lives you can not call them functioning addicts.

Penny Tration · 01-05-2014 03:50PM

Tony EH wrote: »

Agreed...and where did this "great mother" bollocks come from anyway? TBH, in anything I've seen of this self obsessed, famous for being famous, twitter yapping, non-entity, she's always come across as being a bit of a cupid stunt.

It actually did not surprise me one iota when I read that she checked out this way.

"Great mother" my arse.

Jesus. Don't hold back on telling us how you really feel.

nervous_twitch · 01-05-2014 03:51PM

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo wrote: »

She has to take some responsibility for her actions. Taking heroin when you are in the sole care of a child is a choice. She paid more than most for that choice but absolving her of any and all responsibility for what happened in that house, that day is gravely wrong.

It's not dissimilar to suicide, really. Although fundamentally it is a choice, and you are the sole executor of this choice, a sick mind doesn't always have the rationale to make the right one.

01-05-2014 03:53PM

What a waste.

buck65 · 01-05-2014 03:56PM

Funny I actually never heard of her in recent years, only when she was born when we heard the name and thought "those Geldof's are maaaad".

Had she anything to recommend her or was she a bland celeb type?

Amazingfun · 01-05-2014 03:57PM

Another point of interest is the enablers around her who likely knew she was back on the stuff. I wonder if anyone intervened and tried to get her help. Maybe not. Someone was clearly at the ready in hiding the paraphernalia, though.

Living with active users/drunks can make everyone around them complicit in creating the conditions that can allow it to go on.

Miprocin · 01-05-2014 03:58PM

nice but not bright

What a ludicrous thing to say. Lots of scientists, musicians, writers and other highly intelligent people have and continue to use drugs.
Several well known studies show a correlation between drug use and high intelligence.

Intelligence quotient in childhood and the risk of illegal drug use in middle-age: the 1958 National Child Development Survey

Intelligence across childhood in relation to illegal drug use in adulthood: 1970 British Cohort Study

JP Liz V1 · 01-05-2014 04:02PM

I wonder did she mean to kill herself

nelly17 · 01-05-2014 04:06PM

Have to say I really feel for Bob

Snake · 01-05-2014 04:06PM

JP Liz V1 wrote: »

I wonder did she mean to kill herself

I can't imagine so. Heroine can kill you while you sleep without you evening realising.

dark crystal · 01-05-2014 04:13PM

JP Liz V1 wrote: »

I wonder did she mean to kill herself

I honestly don't think she would have deliberately committed suicide with her baby alone in the house with her.

What I do find a little strange, however, is the fact her last tweet was a photograph of her in her mother's arms. To then go and take heroin whilst caring for her own child (as her mother did) seems baffling.

Jesus Wept · 01-05-2014 04:15PM

crockholm wrote: »

What a foolish post.Really clutching at straws there.Slavishly thanked too.

lol. You stated that her problems couldn't touch your own, and inferred that no nobody's could. It was one of the most egocemtric, redundant posts I've read.

Rather than slavish, you clearly alienated others too.

Peaches Geldof died due to heroin overdose**MOD NOTE: NO JOKES**

Comments

Peaches Geldof died due to heroin overdoseMOD NOTE: NO JOKES