Nigel Farage MEP

tomdempsey200 · 27-04-2014 12:29PM

The Corinthian wrote: »

Problem I find with straight talkers is that more often than not, they're like that not because they're direct, intelligent and they've thought through what they stand for, but because they're bullshìtters.

Why they're so popular is that they will make simple, often sweeping, statements that are easy to understand or identify with, and when people do, they tend not to question them - that's when things start going a bit pear shaped. Personally, when I hear 'straight talking' I get suspicious, because life is rarely so simple that you can generalize about it with such an approach.

Silvio Berlusconi prides himself on being a straight talker too, btw.

bertie...

sin_city · 27-04-2014 02:32PM

The Corinthian wrote: »

Problem I find with straight talkers is that more often than not, they're like that not because they're direct, intelligent and they've thought through what they stand for, but because they're bullshìtters.

Why they're so popular is that they will make simple, often sweeping, statements that are easy to understand or identify with, and when people do, they tend not to question them - that's when things start going a bit pear shaped. Personally, when I hear 'straight talking' I get suspicious, because life is rarely so simple that you can generalize about it with such an approach.

Silvio Berlusconi prides himself on being a straight talker too, btw.

I'm a libertarian and Farage comes across as one also.

Most Libertarians speak their mind and it upsets some people in this PC world we live in.

Silvio Berlusconi was not a libertarian btw ...regardless of what HE prided himself on..

SeanW · 27-04-2014 02:39PM

Nodin wrote: »

That remains to be seen. Thus far the depiction of them doesn't seem to be far off in many regards.
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/apr/24/ukip-member-broadcast-suspended-racist-tweets

Nodin wrote: »

They truly are the gift that keeps on giving.

"Candidates have taken to social media sites to rail against Islam as "organised crime under religious camouflage" while likening the religion to Nazism, and suggesting that the murder of the black teenager Stephen Lawrence has received a disproportionate level of attention.
One candidate for election in Enfield, William Henwood, responded to a recent speech by Henry, in which he suggested there was a poor representation of black and ethnic minorities on British television, by tweeting: "He should emigrate to a black country. He does not have to live with whites."
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/apr/27/ukip-farage-racism-lenny-henry-politics-europe

Wow, the Guardian ... that sanctuary of unbiased reporting? It's not like the Guardian isn't the Left's equivalent of Fox News? :pac:

And Islam is so different from Naziism. Could you please explain how Naziism differs from Wahhabism? With particular reference to the stance of both on Jews, homosexuality, polygamy, personal freedom, press freedom etc, an agressive world view?

Nodin · 27-04-2014 02:45PM

SeanW wrote: »

Wow, the Guardian ... that sanctuary of unbiased reporting? It's not like the Guardian isn't the Left's equivalent of Fox News? :pac:

...........

So you're saying that those tweets didn't happen or don't exist? Please clarify.

SeanW · 27-04-2014 02:51PM

Nodin wrote: »

So you're saying that those tweets didn't happen or don't exist? Please clarify.

No, I am suggesting that the Guardian is leftist rag, and it most likely took the most extreme statements by one member (since disowned by the party, and proper order too) and is using that to smear all of UKIP. Which is precisely what a biased rag would do.

Jonny7 · 27-04-2014 03:10PM

SeanW wrote: »

and it most likely took the most extreme statements by one member

Did you read the article?

Racist statements by multiple members and candidates - it's all over the UK media

"young Muslim men remind me of young Afrikaners. They are taught at an early age they have the right to abuse".

"Islam is organised crime under religious camouflage."

“I think if black people come to this country and don't like mixing with white people why are they here? If he (Henry) wants a lot of blacks around, go and live in a black country.”

****ing hell

comongethappy · 27-04-2014 04:49PM

Jonny7 wrote: »

Did you read the article?

Racist statements by multiple members and candidates - it's all over the UK media

****ing hell

They shoot from the hip though.... apparently that is to be admired.

27-04-2014 04:56PM

SeanW wrote: »

No, I am suggesting that the Guardian is leftist rag, and it most likely took the most extreme statements by one member (since disowned by the party, and proper order too) and is using that to smear all of UKIP. Which is precisely what a biased rag would do.

You can find it in another biased rag too
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2614283/Ukip-candidate-William-Henwood-tells-Lenny-Henry-emigrate-black-country.html

Nodin · 27-04-2014 05:53PM

SeanW wrote: »

No, I am suggesting that the Guardian is leftist rag, and it most likely took the most extreme statements by one member (since disowned by the party, and proper order too) and is using that to smear all of UKIP. Which is precisely what a biased rag would do.

.....you do realise that there are numerous remarks by various members over a long period of time at this point, I hope?

SeanW · 27-04-2014 08:43PM

Nodin wrote: »

.....you do realise that there are numerous remarks by various members over a long period of time at this point, I hope?

So they've had a few bad apples ...

tomdempsey200 · 27-04-2014 08:48PM

farage always seems to have a pint in his hand for some reason

and he's bombastic to an irritating extent

Nodin · 27-04-2014 09:18PM

SeanW wrote: »

So they've had a few bad apples ...

"a few bad apples" implies the usual miscreant that can be found in any certain number of people - the corrupt, the violent, the stupid. Here we've a consistent train of a very particular kind of "bad apple". Anti-Jewish remarks, racist remarks, homophobic remarks - its a remarkably consistent grouping, it really is.

The Corinthian · 27-04-2014 10:06PM

sin_city wrote: »

I'm a libertarian and Farage comes across as one also.

You can be a libertarian, or socialist or whatever and still be a bullshìtter, so I don't see what point you're trying to make.

Most Libertarians speak their mind and it upsets some people in this PC world we live in.

When most people speak their mind it upsets someone who is not of their mind, oddly enough. Still don't see your point.

Silvio Berlusconi was not a libertarian btw ...regardless of what HE prided himself on..

I see you don't actually know anything about him or his politics.

SeanW · 28-04-2014 12:47AM

Nodin wrote: »

"a few bad apples" implies the usual miscreant that can be found in any certain number of people - the corrupt, the violent, the stupid. Here we've a consistent train of a very particular kind of "bad apple". Anti-Jewish remarks, racist remarks, homophobic remarks - its a remarkably consistent grouping, it really is.

Yes, some of the people in UKIP are bad, and revealed to be so.

There are bad people in all walks of life, it would be bizarre to expect UKIP to have never had any. It would also be bizarre to tar all the UKIP people with the same brush, or to assume that they do not have a valid argument.

Generalising that the people in UKIP who have come out with crap like "gay marriage caused the floods" "Bongo bongo land" etc are REPRESENTATIVE of UKIP, or unduly stain the many good people who work for and support them, would be a bit like generalising that all Muslims are wife-beating jihadists, or that all travellers were anti-social thieves. We all know you love those kinds of generalisations :rolleyes:

Nodin · 28-04-2014 04:33AM

SeanW wrote: »

Yes, some of the people in UKIP are bad, and revealed to be so.

O I think we covered that. The fact that they all seem to be the same kind of bad is the amazing thing. It's so remarkably consistent. Anti-minority, vaguely misogynistic, reactionary..........

Jonny7 · 28-04-2014 08:42AM

They've been called "BNP in blazers" - a habit of repeatedly blaming Europe and foreigners for Britain's problems plus all the recent racism isn't exactly shedding that image

sin_city · 28-04-2014 01:18PM

Jonny7 wrote: »

They've been called "BNP in blazers" - a habit of repeatedly blaming Europe and foreigners for Britain's problems plus all the recent racism isn't exactly shedding that image

Who calls them that?

Themselves? Or opposition parties that see them as a threat?

If I were from the UK and I voted for Liberals, Labour or Conservative....would I really notice any difference?

Why don't they just give them their vote on the EU and end the talk, that's all the UKIP party is really asking for.

Democracy seems to be convienient for some people here.....but only when it suits them.

comongethappy · 28-04-2014 01:41PM

sin_city wrote: »

Democracy seems to be convienient for some people here.....but only when it suits them.

Doubt anyone here is anti-democratic.

The British people have also thus far endorced UKIP with an impressive zero members of parliament.

At some point they have to try to formulate a plan for the general election & really try to do something about all these racists who "slip through the net" (to quote farage).

sin_city · 29-04-2014 12:00AM

comongethappy wrote: »

Doubt anyone here is anti-democratic.

The British people have also thus far endorced UKIP with an impressive zero members of parliament.

At some point they have to try to formulate a plan for the general election & really try to do something about all these racists who "slip through the net" (to quote farage).

Why hasn't there been an election on EU membership in the UK?

I guess the EU prefers to back coups like in Ukraine to letting the people decide as in Crimea and referendums in Ireland, France and the Netherlands....not too eager to let any member state vote on membership either....I think they know what the result would be.

Are you pro democracy as per above? :pac:

On UKIP - a very influential party for such a small number of seats...wouldn't you agree?

comongethappy · 29-04-2014 12:25AM

sin_city wrote: »

Why hasn't there been an election on EU membership in the UK?

I guess the EU prefers to back coups like in Ukraine to letting the people decide as in Crimea and referendums in Ireland, France and the Netherlands....not too eager to let any member state vote on membership either....I think they know what the result would be.

Are you pro democracy as per above? :pac:

On UKIP - a very influential party for such a small number of seats...wouldn't you agree?

Easy tiger, I'm not sure how clued in you are from your tea-party bunker in America.
(Is there no forums stateside to pester?)

UK had a referendum to join.
It will have another in 3 years subject to renegotiation.

Any nation can leave should it choose.

Not sure as to the influence of UKIP on Britain.

They have no policy on anything.... Only the EU.... And that "policy" only stretches as far as "kick out the darkies / dey took er jerbs!"

Im doubtful come 2015 they will return a single MP out of the 600+ elected.

View · 29-04-2014 12:36AM

sin_city wrote: »

Why hasn't there been an election on EU membership in the UK?

The UK has elections every 4-5 years. If the British people won't elect UKIP to (the UK's) Parliament, that is their absolute perogative. There is nothing "un-democratic" about the refusal of the electorate to elect a party to Parliament.

sin_city · 29-04-2014 12:58AM

comongethappy wrote: »

Any nation can leave should it choose.

Nice words....What nations have had this opportunity?

Anytime we've seen anything that does not fit the EU agenda the public are made to vote again?

Is this incorrect?

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014/04/27/ukip-european-elections_n_5221396.html

As long as the other parties all appear the same as each other to the UK voter UKIP will grow. There's little or no difference between all 3 main parties in Britain.

PS, thanks for the tea party dig. I'm quite clued in yes. Nigel Farage was part of a group of libertarian economists and politicians such as Ron Paul, Jim Rogers, Peter Schiff who attended a conference in Chile last year.

These men predicated the financial crash of 2008. Farage is in good company. Maybe you know about this…I don’t know how clued in you are.

alastair · 29-04-2014 09:16AM

sin_city wrote: »

Nice words....What nations have had this opportunity?

Any EU state has that opportunity at any time. No-one is forced to remain a member.

As to the whole 'bongo bongo land' stuff not being representative of UKIP - well if it's articulated by a representative of UKIP, I'm afraid that's precisely what it is. Godfrey Bloom isn't some aberration within the party base - he's reflective of it.

sin_city · 29-04-2014 12:55PM

Words and actions are very different in politics...You seem to be falling for believing what they say rather than what they do.

Please tell me...what EU state that rejected a treaty has had this rejection accepted by the EU?

jank · 29-04-2014 01:11PM

alastair wrote: »

Any EU state has that opportunity at any time. No-one is forced to remain a member.

Yet, the UKIP are asking for that opportunity through democratic means and are bing hounded by the establishment for it. Having your cake and eating it?

Nodin · 29-04-2014 01:16PM

jank wrote: »

Yet, the UKIP are asking for that opportunity through democratic means and are bing hounded by the establishment for it. Having your cake and eating it?

Currently they seem to be hounded by their own utterances.

alastair · 29-04-2014 01:30PM

sin_city wrote: »

Words and actions are very different in politics...You seem to be falling for believing what they say rather than what they do.

They don't actually do anything though - given that they have precious little power. So judging them on their words is the only game in town.

sin_city wrote: »

Please tell me...what EU state that rejected a treaty has had this rejection accepted by the EU?

What have treaties got to do with EU membership? Various EU states have selective opt-outs from EU treaties - ourselves included.

Jonny7 · 29-04-2014 01:30PM

sin_city wrote: »

I guess the EU prefers to back coups like in Ukraine

It wasn't a coup, people just got sick of the huge corruption that was threatening to bankrupt the country. It appears they were right too, they've discovered at least 2 billion has been siphoned illegally out of the treasury, and it's thought Yanukovych and those in his party may have stolen 10's of billions, which really puts our own woes with corruption into perspective

to letting the people decide as in Crimea

The recent "referendum" in Crimea was anything but

not too eager to let any member state vote on membership either....I think they know what the result would be.

Withdrawal from the European Union is a right of European Union (EU) member states under Treaty on European Union (Article 50): "Any Member State may decide to withdraw from the Union in accordance with its own constitutional requirements."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Withdrawal_from_the_European_Union

alastair · 29-04-2014 01:31PM

jank wrote: »

Yet, the UKIP are asking for that opportunity through democratic means and are bing hounded by the establishment for it. Having your cake and eating it?

The 'establishment' eh? And all the other parties are being given a free ride no doubt?

sin_city · 29-04-2014 01:59PM

Jonny7 wrote: »

It wasn't a coup, people just got sick of the huge corruption that was threatening to bankrupt the country. It appears they were right too, they've discovered at least 2 billion has been siphoned illegally out of the treasury, and it's thought Yanukovych and those in his party may have stolen 10's of billions, which really puts our own woes with corruption into perspective

Yes it was a coup...Like him or not, he was elected...The existing government.....you like that way of doing business? Couldn't they just wait a few months for a new election?

Jonny7 wrote: »

The recent "referendum" in Crimea was anything but

You think the ethnic Russians choose to stay with the Ukranians?

Anyway, that's not my point. The EU say this is wrong and what happened in Kosovo is all good....they are either both ok or both not ok.

Jonny7 wrote: »

Withdrawal from the European Union is a right of European Union (EU) member states under Treaty on European Union (Article 50): "Any Member State may decide to withdraw from the Union in accordance with its own constitutional requirements."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Withdrawal_from_the_European_Union

As I said, words and actions are very different things...why do they keep asking for people to vote again when they don't get the response they like?

Nigel Farage MEP

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