Atkins I feel very sick help

MaceFace · 28-04-2014 09:16AM

Oryx wrote: »

MadFace, you proved my point for me. Atkins didn't work for you. You said it yourself, you put on weight again because it is unsustainable in practice. This is because FAD DIETS DON'T WORK. If Atkins worked it would be something people could live by, but they don't. They jump in and out of it and diets like it and their weight yo-yos back and forth. Just like you.

I never done Atkins, I done Keto which is a variation of Atkins.
I put on weight because I hoovered up so much rich food, junk food and alcohol over the last 2 weeks due to an exceptional number of extended family events and parties and not because I previously done keto.
I actually went back on carbs about a month ago after nearly 3 months of <20g carbs a day. Up to 2 weeks ago I continued to lose weight.
People do live by keto (see here) long term. Just because it does not appeal to you does not mean it doesn't appeal to others.

What do you mean I jump in and out of diets? What are you talking about? You don't know me and you have no idea what kind of diet I have ever done. This is exactly the problem - people jumping in making rash judgements without having any knowledge on the "facts" they are making.

Have you ever tried a low carb diet for an extended period?

WhyTheFace wrote: »

So you put on 2kg just by going to a few gatherings?

This just shows you've no idea how to control yourself. People who understand healthy eating can go to such events without putting on any weight.

Come back here in 6 months and see where your weight is at.

I really do feel sorry for people who think the weight loss is sustainable.

Hmmm..... people who understand healthy eating. LOL!

I consciously chose after 8 months of complete dedication to gym life to take 2 weeks almost completely off and eat what I liked, when I liked knowing full well that it would involve weight gain. Now that those 2 weeks are over, I will revert back to how I lived prior to these 2 weeks.

Can you please explain why weight loss on an Atkins diet is not sustainable? What is it about Atkins that causes weight gain to reoccur once a person reverts to eating medium/high carbs?

MaceFace · 28-04-2014 09:31AM

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

By consuming fewer calories than they burn in a day.

That doesn't have to be done by dieting. It can be done by eating healthily which tends to be a lot more sustainable than dieting.

define "diet": restrict oneself to small amounts or special kinds of food in order to lose weight.

Eating fewer calories than they burn in a day is dieting.

This thread is showing the exact problem when it comes to having a constructive conversation on the subject.
A person says they tried it and it made them feel terrible so advises others to not do it.
A person labels it a "FAD" trying to associate it with being a short term wild idea that we will soon all learn as being silly.
Others claim something as not possible to do even though plenty of people are doing it.

The important thing is not necessarily the type of diet one uses to lose weight, it is how they live once the move from a deficit to a maintenance level. Many people end up going back to their old ways which involves the half pack of biscuits for supper or couple of glasses of wine for dinner or take away once or twice a week so end up calorie creeping and eating more and more.

Alf Veedersane · 28-04-2014 09:42AM

MaceFace wrote: »

define "diet": restrict oneself to small amounts or special kinds of food in order to lose weight.

Eating fewer calories than they burn in a day is dieting.

This thread is showing the exact problem when it comes to having a constructive conversation on the subject.
A person says they tried it and it made them feel terrible so advises others to not do it.
A person labels it a "FAD" trying to associate it with being a short term wild idea that we will soon all learn as being silly.
Others claim something as not possible to do even though plenty of people are doing it.

The important thing is not necessarily the type of diet one uses to lose weight, it is how they live once the move from a deficit to a maintenance level. Many people end up going back to their old ways which involves the half pack of biscuits for supper or couple of glasses of wine for dinner or take away once or twice a week so end up calorie creeping and eating more and more.

I used the word 'diet', as you kindly defined for me above, in the context of the short term means people use to lose weight.

People typically go over the top and take on an unsustainable "diet" to lose weight rather than look at what they eat and the portions sizes and tailor it so that they're below their TDEE. That's sustainable.

For the majority of people, cutting out one particular macronutrient isn't going to be sustainable. Yes, plenty of people do it but it's a relatively small number (relative to population numbers)

There are easier, more sustainable ways of losing weight than the majority of people choose. What I do agree wiith in your post is that the transition from deficit to maintenance is where people lose it and that's usually because they've tried something so far removed from their norm that it falls apart.

lukesmom · 28-04-2014 09:54AM

Amazingfun wrote: »

Not sure why you say that, plenty of people use low-carb diets, or versions of them, quite happily. It was already explained to you why you felt like crap, and that had you stuck with it,you would feel fine in a few days. Atkins is not low low carb forever, lots of veggies and fruits like berries, etc, are all part of the lifestyle down the road.

So being so dizzy to the point of having to skip going out to friends house yesterday and having awful headaches is normal? I know your saying it doesn't last too long but in all honesty I don't think it's healthy. After eating brown bread I started feeling well again. It might work for others who don't mind feeling awful but I want to be happy and lose weight a healthy way instead of robbing my body of important carbs which I found out are essential for both body and brain. If it works for you then fantastic but I couldn't cope with feeling that bad.

Amazingfun · 28-04-2014 09:59AM

lukesmom wrote: »

So being so dizzy to the point of having to skip going out to friends house yesterday and having awful headaches is normal? I know your saying it doesn't last too long but in all honesty I don't think it's healthy. After eating brown bread I started feeling well again. It might work for others who don't mind feeling awful but I want to be happy and lose weight a healthy way instead of robbing my body of important carbs which I found out are essential for both body and brain. If it works for you then fantastic but I couldn't cope with feeling that bad.

You only tried it for five days. Did you not read up on it before starting? It's well known you will have some "withdrawal" symptoms for a few days but they pass.

Also, I don't know what you actually ate for those five days?

Anyhow, no one is forcing you to do low carb/grain free, so good luck with whatever road you try next.

MaceFace · 28-04-2014 10:09AM

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

I used the word 'diet', as you kindly defined for me above, in the context of the short term means people use to lose weight.

People typically go over the top and take on an unsustainable "diet" to lose weight rather than look at what they eat and the portions sizes and tailor it so that they're below their TDEE. That's sustainable.

For the majority of people, cutting out one particular macronutrient isn't going to be sustainable. Yes, plenty of people do it but it's a relatively small number (relative to population numbers)

There are easier, more sustainable ways of losing weight than the majority of people choose. What I do agree wiith in your post is that the transition from deficit to maintenance is where people lose it and that's usually because they've tried something so far removed from their norm that it falls apart.

I do agree but it depends on what someone means as unsustainable. It is unsustainable in terms of ensuring enough longevity no eating at a deficit to reach ones goals or unsustainable in terms of once a person reaches their weight goal, they don't revert back to bad habits.
The first is probably more true for Atkins as it is very difficult to eat low carbs for an extended period. It takes a lot of work to understand the choices and learn what is involved. One still has to eat healthy but once someone understands the food choices and learns various recipes, it becomes quite straightforward. The hard part is at parties, Christmas or Easter etc when there is an abundance of junk food around that becomes very tempting. Whether someones macro ratio is 40/40/20 or 60/35/5 doesn't really matter, that bar of chocolate is just as appealing.

lukesmom wrote: »

So being so dizzy to the point of having to skip going out to friends house yesterday and having awful headaches is normal? I know your saying it doesn't last too long but in all honesty I don't think it's healthy. After eating brown bread I started feeling well again. It might work for others who don't mind feeling awful but I want to be happy and lose weight a healthy way instead of robbing my body of important carbs which I found out are essential for both body and brain. If it works for you then fantastic but I couldn't cope with feeling that bad.

Any type of dizziness or ill feeling is not good and your body is trying to tell you that. However, when you read up on the subject, you find reasons for this and you can mitigate them.
If you go cold turkey and eliminate carbs, your body will of course not understand this. That is why there are recommendations to slowly cut down on the carb intake for a couple of weeks before getting to a very low amount. This will limit the impact it has on your body.
Regarding dizziness. This also affected me and when I read about it, it tends to be low electrolytes due to your body not storing as much water when on a low carb diet. So, you need to up your sodium intake. When I done this, the symptoms disappeared.

To be clear though, carbs are not essential for either body or brain. It is the one macro nutrient we can actually do without, if of course one chooses to do so.

Alf Veedersane · 28-04-2014 10:18AM

MaceFace wrote: »

I do agree but it depends on what someone means as unsustainable

Something one can maintain in the long term.

For most people eating 20g or less of carbs is a day isn't sustainable.

For some it is. But for most it isn't.

Amazingfun · 28-04-2014 10:20AM

@ Maceface, thanks for the link to this wildwoman Stephanie Fitskater, she is something else, what a tonic, lol

lukesmom · 28-04-2014 11:03AM

Amazingfun wrote: »

You only tried it for five days. Did you not read up on it before starting? It's well known you will have some "withdrawal" symptoms for a few days but they pass.

Also, I don't know what you actually ate for those five days?

Anyhow, no one is forcing you to do low carb/grain free, so good luck with whatever road you try next.

I read a bit of the atkins book. Ate exactly what the book suggested. And you are right nobody forced me. I will continue to cut down on potatoes/rice/pasta/bread but not cut out completely. Oh and any diet that tells me not to eat apples there is something wrong there in my opinion, but you know what I will agree with you that it does work and makes you lose weight. I just couldn't handle the side effects, others can. C'est la vie

Amazingfun · 28-04-2014 11:29AM

lukesmom wrote: »

I read a bit of the atkins book. Ate exactly what the book suggested. And you are right nobody forced me. I will continue to cut down on potatoes/rice/pasta/bread but not cut out completely. Oh and any diet that tells me not to eat apples there is something wrong there in my opinion, but you know what I will agree with you that it does work and makes you lose weight. I just couldn't handle the side effects, others can. C'est la vie

Which bit did you read?

How do I get good carbs into my diet?

The best kinds of carbohydrates are those that do not raise blood sugar quickly, nor raise it too high but provide lots of nutrition – more bang for your nutrition buck. Those kinds of carbohydrates are described as good carbs or low glycemic foods. Good carbs include vegetables, low glycemic fruits such as berries and apples, as well as legumes and unprocessed high fiber whole grains.

(that's from the Atkins site, btw).

http://www.atkins.com/Science/Nutrition-and-Exercise/Good-Carbs.aspx

lukesmom · 28-04-2014 01:26PM

Amazingfun wrote: »

Which bit did you read?

(that's from the Atkins site, btw).

http://www.atkins.com/Science/Nutrition-and-Exercise/Good-Carbs.aspx

First two weeks induction I'm talking about. If you are allowed apples in the induction period then my mistake and apologies.

mickman · 28-04-2014 02:38PM

NipNip wrote: »

Oh the shame. I was intending to reply to another unrelated thread. So sorry!!!

class :-)

ford2600 · 28-04-2014 05:40PM

I've never had a weight problem and always have had excellent health, yet I chose to eat low carb, call it Atkins if you wish.

8 months later I've never felt better; stronger leaner more energy and now know difference between hunger and sugar craving.

I would add you need to be clever,
* I don't eat processed meat
* Chicken minus the breast, chiken meat juices and skin are fantastic
* eggs from my own farm, I eat lots of these
* grass fed beef and lamb
* in absence of fruit I eat an enormous amount of veg, particularly green leafy veg
* You need to add salt to your diet, on high fat your body typically dumps sodium compared to low fat
* Lots of olive oil, cocunut, butter
* fish fish oil
* all kinds of nuts

I cook all my own meals and under any definition eat clean.

20g a day is necessary for some to enter ketosis, other can get away with 100g. It's a spectrum, people vary a lot.

On this diet I can now do the following
*cycle 130km plus in a fasted state in morning
* On just breakfast without any food on bike regularly cycle 160k and up to 190km
* Recently cycled 440km in 24hrs with very little food.

Atkins/LCHF is not a fad. Your training your body to switch over to a state of nutritional ketosis. Don't do your homework and you will suffer though.

As an aside my hdl has gone from ok to above optimum and triglycerides have halfed. Tell me another diet that does that. At 38 I spent the rest of my time following food pyramid nonsense and clean living with only ok bloods

WhyTheFace · 28-04-2014 11:40PM

ford2600 wrote: »

I've never had a weight problem and always have had excellent health, yet I chose to eat low carb, call it Atkins if you wish.

8 months later I've never felt better; stronger leaner more energy and now know difference between hunger and sugar craving.

I would add you need to be clever,
* I don't eat processed meat
* Chicken minus the breast, chiken meat juices and skin are fantastic
* eggs from my own farm, I eat lots of these
* grass fed beef and lamb
* in absence of fruit I eat an enormous amount of veg, particularly green leafy veg
* You need to add salt to your diet, on high fat your body typically dumps sodium compared to low fat
* Lots of olive oil, cocunut, butter
* fish fish oil
* all kinds of nuts

I cook all my own meals and under any definition eat clean.

20g a day is necessary for some to enter ketosis, other can get away with 100g. It's a spectrum, people vary a lot.

On this diet I can now do the following
*cycle 130km plus in a fasted state in morning
* On just breakfast without any food on bike regularly cycle 160k and up to 190km
* Recently cycled 440km in 24hrs with very little food.

Atkins/LCHF is not a fad. Your training your body to switch over to a state of nutritional ketosis. Don't do your homework and you will suffer though.

As an aside my hdl has gone from ok to above optimum and triglycerides have halfed. Tell me another diet that does that. At 38 I spent the rest of my time following food pyramid nonsense and clean living with only ok bloods

If its not a fad does that mean there are people on the Atkins diet for 10-20 years?

whirlpool · 29-04-2014 01:31AM

lukesmom wrote: »

So being so dizzy to the point of having to skip going out to friends house yesterday and having awful headaches is normal? I know your saying it doesn't last too long but in all honesty I don't think it's healthy. After eating brown bread I started feeling well again. It might work for others who don't mind feeling awful but I want to be happy and lose weight a healthy way instead of robbing my body of important carbs which I found out are essential for both body and brain. If it works for you then fantastic but I couldn't cope with feeling that bad.

Withdrawal from anything you're addicted to has unpleasant side-effects. Going by the logic in your post here, alcoholics should continue drinking alcohol, and heroin addicts should stay on heroin - all because the withdrawal side effects are not "normal."

While alcoholics experience negative symptoms of alcohol addiction, and drug addicts experience negative symptoms of drug addiction, you could be experiencing negative symptoms of your high carb diet, without even realising that those symptoms are a result of your carb intake.

You are addicted to carbs. That's why, like with anything, you experienced unpleasant side effects when you tried to withdraw. Not because you need a high amount of carbs, just like the heroin addict doesn't need heroin. You have utterly convinced your brain that you need a high-carb diet - that's why when you tried to take the carbs away, your body screamed bloody-mary at you.

I would echo what previous posters have said, the best diet is not one that forces you to go hungry, it is one that is filled with plenty of high quality, natural foods, which your body can process well and and which doesn't spike your blood sugar.

Cravings are a separate thing. All cravings are the same - they occur when you completely convince your brain that a particular substance is necessary for your survival - even when it's not. And when you try to take that substance away, your body screams. If I were you I would take this past week of unpleasant withdrawal symptoms as a sign that you are addicted to carbs and start to slowly wean yourself off them to a lower amount. No need to do it instantaneously.

WhyTheFace · 29-04-2014 07:16AM

whirlpool wrote: »

Withdrawal from anything you're addicted to has unpleasant side-effects. Going by the logic in your post here, alcoholics should continue drinking alcohol, and heroin addicts should stay on heroin - all because the withdrawal side effects are not "normal."

While alcoholics experience negative symptoms of alcohol addiction, and drug addicts experience negative symptoms of drug addiction, you could be experiencing negative symptoms of your high carb diet, without even realising that those symptoms are a result of your carb intake.

You are addicted to carbs. That's why, like with anything, you experienced unpleasant side effects when you tried to withdraw. Not because you need a high amount of carbs, just like the heroin addict doesn't need heroin. You have utterly convinced your brain that you need a high-carb diet - that's why when you tried to take the carbs away, your body screamed bloody-mary at you.

I would echo what previous posters have said, the best diet is not one that forces you to go hungry, it is one that is filled with plenty of high quality, natural foods, which your body can process well and and which doesn't spike your blood sugar.

Cravings are a separate thing. All cravings are the same - they occur when you completely convince your brain that a particular substance is necessary for your survival - even when it's not. And when you try to take that substance away, your body screams. If I were you I would take this past week of unpleasant withdrawal symptoms as a sign that you are addicted to carbs and start to slowly wean yourself off them to a lower amount. No need to do it instantaneously.

While this is somewhat true it is not correct.

It is not an addiction to carbs per se in the same way one becomes addicted to drugs or sugar.

Neither drugs or sugar are essential for normal bodily functions. Carbs play an important role as they are the fuel that drives the body.
You do not need to have been eating carbs in huge amounts to get those types of feeling on stopping them.
It would be similar to people feeling thirsty without water. Severe dehydration isn't a sign of you having an addiction to water, its a sign that the body is missing something essential to its normal function.

ford2600 · 29-04-2014 07:20AM

"If its not a fad does that mean there are people on the Atkins diet for 10-20 years?"

Entire groups/tribes of people have thrived on high fat for years, Masai, Inuit, Native Indian etc. I spent some time with the Masai and they seem to do quite well in a harsh environment. They could never understand why the white man(me) was hungry so often!

Many other populations do quite well to on a diet high in Cabohydrate, many living in the same region as Masai where the banana in it's 30 or so forms is the staple of the diet.

As for your 10-20 years, how well has the Western world done since fat was demonised in the 1970's, with low fat becoming official government advice? An explosion in diabetes and obesity; I wonder is there a link

I'm not anti carbohydrate, I run quite well on it, many others are not so lucky with high carb diets. Expecting one food pyramid diet to suit all people is a nonsense

ford2600 · 29-04-2014 07:24AM

"Carbs play an important role as they are the fuel that drives the body."

Correction carbs are one of the fuels that drive the body. Even on a high carb diet you have more energy as fat(and interestingly more as saturated fat compared to a high fat diet) than glycogen in your blood.

In the absence of carbs your body can run quite well on fat. We are an adaptable species

WhyTheFace · 29-04-2014 07:46AM

ford2600 wrote: »

"Carbs play an important role as they are the fuel that drives the body."

Correction carbs are one of the fuels that drive the body. Even on a high carb diet you have more energy as fat(and interestingly more as saturated fat compared to a high fat diet) than glycogen in your blood.

In the absence of carbs your body can run quite well on fat. We are an adaptable species

While fat may be used as a source of energy it is nowhere near as efficient as carbs and sustained intake of high levels of fats have their own obvious health implications.

Also you are not comparing like with like when you mention such tribes as their bodies have adopted over hundreds of years to survive the harsh conditions of their environments. It's called evolution.

WhyTheFace · 29-04-2014 07:47AM

ford2600 wrote: »

"If its not a fad does that mean there are people on the Atkins diet for 10-20 years?"

Entire groups/tribes of people have thrived on high fat for years, Masai, Inuit, Native Indian etc. I spent some time with the Masai and they seem to do quite well in a harsh environment. They could never understand why the white man(me) was hungry so often!

Many other populations do quite well to on a diet high in Cabohydrate, many living in the same region as Masai where the banana in it's 30 or so forms is the staple of the diet.

As for your 10-20 years, how well has the Western world done since fat was demonised in the 1970's, with low fat becoming official government advice? An explosion in diabetes and obesity; I wonder is there a link

I'm not anti carbohydrate, I run quite well on it, many others are not so lucky with high carb diets. Expecting one food pyramid diet to suit all people is a nonsense

The explosion in diabetes is due to excessive carbs, fats and sugar...usually in combination. Nothing is wrong in moderation, but any of the above three in excess have obvious health implications.

NSAman · 29-04-2014 07:53AM

Can I weigh in here?

I too started a low carb diet. Cut out breads, pasta etc etc and went with slow release carbs and higher protein.

I combined it with rigorous exercise and a trainer.

The first two weeks were horrendous, learning how to eat properly. Headaches, feeling basically terrible. Then on week three I started to loose weight dramatically, my energy levels soared and now I am almost 3 stone lighter and maintain it with foods that I like and can eat and are healthy. They still contain more protein than carbs. I have been on this diet for 2 years and feel amazing.

It has become the norm for me now, it is easy for me to live with and I can have the occassional break out when I have occassions that I have to attend.

Carbs, especially the breads pastas etc now make me feel ill when I eat them. White bread leads to bloating and lethargy and a general feeling of unwellness. Yes I have been tested for coealiac disease and the results were negative.

Eating healthily for me has meant cutting out the "bad" carbs and concentrating on fresh veg and protein all cooked at home. Not to mention the savings on shopping bills of not buying rubbish.

ford2600 · 29-04-2014 07:59AM

WhyTheFace wrote: »

The explosion in diabetes is due to excessive carbs, fats and sugar...usually in combination. Nothing is wrong in moderation, but any of the above three in excess have obvious health implications.

I'm asking a question is it a low fat diet?

You know the answer well done!

Is it that hard to believe that people are different over a very broad spectrum, some do well on high fat low carb others on a food pyramid diet? And all the variation in between

As for evolution in your other post, you do realise the vast majority of our evolution occurred prior to advent of agriculture? I was also lucky to spend time with a hunter gatherer tribe, you do realise we have all evolved from such tribes.

Evolution isn't a good argument to discount high fat living.

ford2600 · 29-04-2014 08:01AM

"sustained intake of high levels of fats have their own obvious health implications."

You might explain that for me please? How are all these fats going to kill me?

Teyla Emmagan · 29-04-2014 08:05AM

Interesting on the anxiety medication and the craving carbs Lukesma. Hmmmmmmm! I am on a health kick at the moment (new FitBit) and am combining that with low carbs (says she who just had toast for breakfast). Anyway, it's one approach that really works for me, in that I immediately feel a lot better. The old carbs are a sluggish but eternally enticing drug.

WhyTheFace · 29-04-2014 09:31AM

ford2600 wrote: »

"sustained intake of high levels of fats have their own obvious health implications."

You might explain that for me please? How are all these fats going to kill me?

Not sure if it's your knowledge of the subject matter or the English language that are lacking. Health implications does not equate to death. Merely that they can have negative effects on one's well being.

MaceFace · 29-04-2014 09:33AM

WhyTheFace wrote: »

Not sure if it's your knowledge of the subject matter or the English language that are lacking. Health implications does not equate to death. Merely that they can have negative effects on one's well being.

What are the health implications of a high fat diet?

Blacktie. · 29-04-2014 09:36AM

WhyTheFace wrote: »

Not sure if it's your knowledge of the subject matter or the English language that are lacking. Health implications does not equate to death. Merely that they can have negative effects on one's well being.

I'll rephrase his question then. What are the health implications of sustained levels of high intake of fat? Also define sustained and high levels.

ford2600 · 29-04-2014 09:41AM

WhyTheFace wrote: »

Not sure if it's your knowledge of the subject matter or the English language that are lacking. Health implications does not equate to death. Merely that they can have negative effects on one's well being.

Not sure why you need to question my command of the English language?

Please outline how a high fat diet in the absence of high carb especially sugar is so dangerous. Which fats, or those it matter?

WhyTheFace · 29-04-2014 09:51AM

ford2600 wrote: »

Not sure why you need to question my command of the English language?

Please outline how a high fat diet in the absence of high carb especially sugar is so dangerous. Which fats, or those it matter?

Again, I never said it was dangerous. You seem to think "health implications" equates to death and danger.

ford2600 · 29-04-2014 09:52AM

WhyTheFace wrote: »

Again, I never said it was dangerous. You seem to think "health implications" equates to death and danger.

Ok what are the health implications of a high fat diet in the absence of high carbohydrate especially sugar?

Atkins I feel very sick help

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