Season 4 Episode 4 "Oathkeeper": HAVE read the books

Hotale.com · 28-04-2014 10:30PM

I think the next 2 seasons are going to get into solid Winds of Winter territory, I'd definitely stop watching after this season if I didn't want major spoilers...

Hotale.com · 28-04-2014 10:30PM

Mousewar wrote: »

Having read the books aside, that was pants. I mean, nothing happened. And then some pale fella with a knobbly head turns up and turns a baby's eyes blue at the end.
Pure filler.

Nothing happened?

Witcher · 28-04-2014 10:32PM

Hotale.com wrote: »

I think the next 2 seasons are going to get into solid Winds of Winter territory, I'd definitely stop watching after this season if I didn't want major spoilers...

There's still plenty of ground to cover yet before they come to that.

The thing with the Others isn't a sign of things to come just yet, they said they just did it to show what happens to Craster's sons since it's heavily implied in the books but never shown because there's no POV available obviously. They have to keep the Others in the background as a looming menace somehow.

Mousewar · 28-04-2014 10:34PM

Hotale.com wrote: »

Nothing happened?

Just a load of chatter and not even the ones that are good at it like Tywin.

Witcher · 28-04-2014 10:36PM

Mousewar wrote: »

Just a load of chatter and not even the ones that are good at it like Tywin.

That's pretty much all the books are from now on. There's the battle of Castle Black and the Battle Beneath the Wall and from then on it's just people talking bollocks. Especially AFFC.

Mousewar · 28-04-2014 10:37PM

Blay wrote: »

That's pretty much all the books are from now on. There's the battle of Castle Black and the Battle Beneath the Wall and from then on it's just people talking bollocks. Especially AFFC.

Yeah you're right

Hotale.com · 28-04-2014 10:37PM

Blay wrote: »

There's still plenty of ground to cover yet before they come to that.

The thing with the Others isn't a sign of things to come just yet, they said they just did it to show what happens to Craster's sons since it's heavily implied in the books but never shown because there's no POV available obviously.

I dunno... I think AFFC can be done in a season, ADWD maybe a bit more but they'll be treating them as one book (as in they'll actually be doing the show chronologically as opposed to geographically) as far as I'm aware so I can't see 2 seasons completely devoted to them..

Hotale.com · 28-04-2014 10:38PM

Blay wrote: »

That's pretty much all the books are from now on. There's the battle of Castle Black and the Battle Beneath the Wall and from then on it's just people talking bollocks. Especially AFFC.

I actually loved AFFC...

lynski · 28-04-2014 10:39PM

I enjoyed that. liked Jon's bit of training and the hints at what is to come, love seeing pod and brianne head off (they are two of my favs), meereen scenes were fine - fast but got the point across, cant wait to see the crasters keep lads get their comeuppance, was sure it was coldhands with the baby, surprised by the bran revelations to jon and to see them caught. like that there are deviations and it will be fun seeing where it goes.

Witcher · 28-04-2014 10:42PM

Hotale.com wrote: »

I actually loved AFFC...

I actually liked it too don't get me wrong, even Brienne's chapters which people seem to hate.

But the non readers probably think it's going to continue like it has been this season and they're sorely mistaken. There's a big drop off in action after this season and it's back to political wranging etc. which might piss them off.

They're already tired of Dany's story and Bran's so if we take that as a sign, they'll hate what is to come.

Did anyone see the next episode's promo..they're just fcuking with the non readers in one particular scene.

Hotale.com · 28-04-2014 10:45PM

Blay wrote: »

I actually liked it too don't get me wrong, even Brienne's chapters which people seem to hate.

But the non reader's probably think it's going to continue like it has been this season and they're sorely mistaken. There's a big drop off in action after this season and it's back to political wranging etc. which might piss them off.

They're already tired of Dany's story and Bran's so if we take that as a sign, they'll hate what is to come.

Did anyone see the next episode's promo..they're just ****ign with the non readers in one particluar scene.

If they do Bran's story in the next season as well as Martin did it in ADWD I don't think anyone will have issues with it. Bran's ADWD chapters are some of Martin's best in my opinion.

Witcher · 28-04-2014 10:50PM

Hotale.com wrote: »

If they do Bran's story in the next season as well as Martin did it in ADWD I don't think anyone will have issues with it. Bran's ADWD chapters are some of Martin's best in my opinion.

They are but I think the non readers are a bit less patient in waiting for the story to develop..they already want Bran dead and the chap's only been on screen for a while over the last two seasons. Even his warg powers etc. don't seem to hold their interest:pac: They'll just see Bran talking to a tree and be like 'What the fcuk is this?':pac: I don't know what they'lll have BR and Bran talk about..the speech about loving one brother and hating another won't really work since they haven't explained the BF Rebellion in the show. They'll have to invent the dialogue which will be very well received by the purists:p

I think they were really expecting a payoff in Dany's story this year and they will be pissed when it doesn't come. I can see a lot of them being annoyed when the wildings are turned back at the Wall too and nothing really comes of that.

28-04-2014 10:51PM

Blay wrote: »

That's pretty much all the books are from now on. There's the battle of Castle Black and the Battle Beneath the Wall and from then on it's just people talking bollocks. Especially AFFC.

but then we get

victarion and euron greyjoy love those guys

Paddy Cow · 28-04-2014 10:51PM

OctavarIan wrote: »

Not surprised at all that the TV series is deviating more from the books the closer they get. Having Jon actually meet Bran would be terrible though and I hope that doesn't happen.

I doubt it. Deviations from the book only work if they don't affect the overall story, like when they created scenes for Arya and Tywin at Harrenhal. Coldhands will turn up and kill all the Night's Watch and be gone with Bran and the others before Jon's group turns up. Instead of finding the mutineers, Jon will find a load of walkers and in the ensuing fight, Locke gets killed.

Btw, did Coldhands kill all of Craster's daughters or spare them?

Jelle1880 · 28-04-2014 10:51PM

It does kind of make sense that they include the end to explain what happens to Caster's sons, but I can imagine a lot of people expecting that there will be more attention on the White Walkers etc. now, which doesn't really happen.

All in all I quite enjoyed it, a few more things which are being set up nicely.

Hotale.com · 28-04-2014 10:57PM

Jelle1880 wrote: »

It does kind of make sense that they include the end to explain what happens to Caster's sons, but I can imagine a lot of people expecting that there will be more attention on the White Walkers etc. now, which doesn't really happen.

All in all I quite enjoyed it, a few more things which are being set up nicely.

The problem I have with it is I saw a HBO synopsis of the episode which possibly spoiled the White Walkers..

Witcher · 28-04-2014 10:58PM

Jelle1880 wrote: »

It does kind of make sense that they include the end to explain what happens to Caster's sons, but I can imagine a lot of people expecting that there will be more attention on the White Walkers etc. now, which doesn't really happen.

All in all I quite enjoyed it, a few more things which are being set up nicely.

Yeah I think it's suggesting an immiment battle with them which obviously is a bit far off yet.

Non readers aren't to know that it's just D&D explaining something from the books so when nothing transpires there either it won't go down well.

Witcher · 28-04-2014 11:00PM

Hotale.com wrote: »

The problem I have with it is I saw a HBO synopsis of the episode which possibly spoiled the White Walkers..

I think the particular name they called that guy in the description might just be a show name for him and might not bear any link to the actual guy from the books.

They haven't explained any of that story within the show which leads me to believe it's just a name they've brought across from the books. I hope so anyway.

Elio that runs Westeros.org and works closely with GRRM said in the comments of his Youtube discussion of the episode that it's likely whoever wrote that passage went looking through the wiki for some sort of name to link with the guy at the end and stumbled upon that one. He said they often haven't read the books and go to the wiki etc. for names, places.

jebidiah · 28-04-2014 11:42PM

Washington Irving wrote: »

Yeah, it didn't show Sam telling him about it, but Jon said something about how when he got back to Castle Black he only wished he could recuperate from his arrow wound and go after Bran. Sam says he tried to convince Bran to come with him instead of going north. It's around 35-36 mins in.

I imagine it's to do with Roose's orders to Locke about going after Bran and Rickon. They need something to slow down Bran's arc after skipping so far ahead.

Didn't Jon spot summer when he is with the wildlings though? Is that not when he gets an idea that bran is alive?

Nerdlingr · 28-04-2014 11:51PM

Just watched it. Not too sure what to make of it all. The ending....hmmmm...undecided. Don't know if I like the whole deviation from the books at Crasters Keep. Obviously they need some excitement thrown in for TV but it just sits uneasy with me. The whole of Mereen been overthrown in two minutes? Grey Worm walks into a massive city, finds a slave rebellion meeting and gives the lads a few swords...stretching it!! Don't think I've enjoyed Season 4 as much as I thought I would. Only the Red Viper can save it now!!

Witcher · 28-04-2014 11:54PM

jebidiah wrote: »

Didn't Jon spot summer when he is with the wildlings though? Is that not when he gets an idea that bran is alive?

The direwolves being alive doesn't necessarily mean his brothers are, just that Theon etc. threw the wolves out of Winterfell and let them roam the North.

Burt Macklin · 29-04-2014 01:38AM

Back on topic of the episode, thought it was pretty good. Good scenes between Jaime and Cersei/Bronn/Brienne/Tyrion.

Night's King obviously a talking point. Not entirely sure how I feel about it, but definitely excited.

Oh, and the Queen of Thorns sex tips to Margaery was gas!

Mickeroo · 29-04-2014 01:46AM

Loved it.

Delighted they spelled out Joffrey's murder, always felt it was painfully obvious in the books anyway and the alternate fan theories were pants tbh.

I got pretty giddy in the last few minutes too. Great to be left guessing for a change. A little bemused at people being a bit annoyed over the scene tbh as if it's a spoiler. Anything that expands on what's going on north of the wall is ok in my book.

I'm loving the deviations from the book. Really hope Jon and Bran get a scene together at Crasters.

Also, I think the show is gradually becoming better than the books. There I said it. :pac:

29-04-2014 03:30AM

Mickeroo wrote: »

Loved it.

Delighted they spelled out Joffrey's murder, always felt it was painfully obvious in the books anyway and the alternate fan theories were pants tbh.

I got pretty giddy in the last few minutes too. Great to be left guessing for a change. A little bemused at people being a bit annoyed over the scene tbh as if it's a spoiler. Anything that expands on what's going on north of the wall is ok in my book.

I'm loving the deviations from the book. Really hope Jon and Bran get a scene together at Crasters.

Also, I think the show is gradually becoming better than the books. There I said it. :pac:

The thing is, they spelled out the death in a way that doesn't make sense. Margaery had to be in on it, there's no other way nobody's going to notice an old woman get up, walk 5 feet and put something in Joff's cup. Margaery not knowing about it makes zero sense, I assumed it was Garlan in the books and Margaery in the show. No way Olenna could have dropped it in given the placement of the cup and how the scene developed.

The show is too simplistic and nonsensical. Too many things happen that make little or no sense and then are explained using strawman logic later on. Watch as a whore who manipulated Tyrion into bringing her in house suddenly decides to care more about him than gold supposedly and winds up in his father's bed as a spurned lover. Can't wait to see how they explain that one. My living situation is with 4 people who are only show watchers and we have HBO. The only reason I'm still watching is because I'm there and it gets put on. The show has really jumped the shark and seemingly have to show characters every do often because people with low attention spans will forget about who they are. Would the Wire do such a thing? No. Having mandatory sex scenes that add nothing to the show most of the time taking up characters and character development just for shock value has gotten very old very fast and the instant gratification given to viewers devalues it compared to the books. I mean don't spoon feed people...

Daith · 29-04-2014 05:37AM

Liam O wrote: »

Watch as a whore who manipulated Tyrion into bringing her in house suddenly decides to care more about him than gold supposedly and winds up in his father's bed as a spurned lover. Can't wait to see how they explain that one.

This hasn't happened in the show and yet you are already complaining about it?

eyeball kid · 29-04-2014 06:54AM

Have to say I'm enjoying the changes. Its nice not to know what's coming up. Haven't had that since the 1st series after which I read all the books.

Noopti · 29-04-2014 07:15AM

I really enjoyed this episode. I thought the scene with Littlefinger and Sansa was very enoyable, and very well acted.

The reveal about the purple wedding was good, I don't see the point in dragging that out for episodes/seasons.

The mutineers in Crastors Keep, another great scene/scenes. Uncomfortable to watch because it is so well acted and written. The leader of the mutineers is a really good actor, I remember him standing out when he (suddenly?) appeared in the mutiny episode as the instigator.

Sack of Mereen was....meh. But didn't totally bother me.

The Night's King at the end. Really enjoyed that, I thought the it was brilliantly shot and with great atmosphere. I also don't think it spoiled anything for me, surely we all know about the Night's King and that he exists, considering Old Nan mentioned him in the books in her stories? So showing him on screen....what exactly does that spoil?

Probably my favourite episode of the season so far. Some excellent scenes, great acting and exciting reveals.

Daith · 29-04-2014 07:43AM

eyeball kid wrote: »

Have to say I'm enjoying the changes. Its nice not to know what's coming up. Haven't had that since the 1st series after which I read all the books.

Agreed. I especially like in the Red Wedding not knowing what would happen to Robb's wife. There's a brilliant video going around which tried to make her a spy for Tywin and had me convinced. So while I knew what was mostly going to happen I still was hooked because I didn't know everything.

Noopti · 29-04-2014 07:44AM

Liam O wrote: »

The thing is, they spelled out the death in a way that doesn't make sense. Margaery had to be in on it, there's no other way nobody's going to notice an old woman get up, walk 5 feet and put something in Joff's cup. Margaery not knowing about it makes zero sense, I assumed it was Garlan in the books and Margaery in the show. No way Olenna could have dropped it in given the placement of the cup and how the scene developed.

http://m.imgur.com/a/2DtPH

This does a good job at explaining it. Although it could easily be construed from it that Margaery is involved, based on the subsequent scenes in the latest episode it is obvious she wasn't. She just innocently placed the cup on her Grandmothers table, giving her the perfect opportunity to place the poison. Even if she hadn't placed the cup there - it is a wedding feast. They would all get drunker and drunker and of course there would be plenty of opportunities to place the poison in his cup at some stage. The Queen of Thorns is a wily auld woman.

Tom.D.BJJ · 29-04-2014 08:03AM

Alot of people saying the deviations form the books are great. I really don't agree, particularly about Bran at Craster's keep. Ghost being caged, and Summer being caught in a trap is a bit stupid as well. Dany taking Mereen so quickly also.

The tv show really is dumbing everything down to the point of oversimplification, and at a big cost to the plot.

Edit to add: The QoT telling Margaery how much of a go-er she used to be was more than a little jarring, and totally unneccesary

Season 4 Episode 4 "Oathkeeper": *HAVE* read the books

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Season 4 Episode 4 "Oathkeeper": HAVE read the books