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UK uses ugly stick on long term unemployed

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Comments

  • #32
    Graces7
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,634 ✭✭✭✭Graces7


    i hear what the charities are saying re voluntary work but they are missing the point. they would be helping the unemployed.

    could use a volunteer here a few hours now and then to do the work i am not able for. eg digging.

    we should here bring back national service.


  • #33
    irishejit
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 657 ✭✭✭irishejit


    jon1981 wrote: »
    Dole queues i hear can be huge, so effectively you're asking people to stand in a queue every day?

    Good point...there are that many claimants dole offices have been offering people the chance to sign on once a month instead of every 2 weeks for a number of years because they couldn't cope with the volumes of people!!

    Not very clear thinking going on here at all!!


  • #34
    doolox
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,345 ✭✭✭doolox


    While there is huge demand for it here in Ireland and in the UK there is not the money to go into it and keep up with the demand. Forcing people into the job without a vocation or desire to do the work will result in sloppy standards or at worst, victimisation of the people under care by disgruntled workers in their new enforced positions. This will lead to a need fro more supervision and increased costs and undermine the intentions of the scheme. Perhaps there is a need to sort out the unemplyable from the potentially employable and concentrate on the people where there is a realistic hope of a return on the givts investment of time and effort.


  • #35
    dpofloinn
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 744 ✭✭✭dpofloinn


    Before every one gets carried away it applies to approx 200,000 people who have been out of work 3 years or more. This strikes me a genuine attempt to rid the system of the career welfare claimants and the fraudulant. Now having said that if the figures are to belived that there are 600,000 job vacancies and a total of 6million unemployed in the UK then that means there are 10 people for every job, not great odds really for getting a job.

    The next question is how many of these supposed 600,000 jobs are genuine jobs? How many are 0 hour contracts? How many are internships?. Alot would be my guess by the fact that as an alternative to signing on everyday the claimant can do 6 months voluntary service. Surely if work was as readily available then there would be no need to have voluntary service.

    And for those who say ''we should do that in Ireland'' you can relax safe in the knowledge that we will have it here before too long, just as soon as the UK realise that it doesnt work our government will implement a similar but more expensive and equally disasterous system, becuase as we all know career claimants will always find a way to beat the system.


  • #36
    Maphisto
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,014 ✭✭✭Maphisto


    irishejit wrote: »
    Good point...there are that many claimants dole offices have been offering people the chance to sign on once a month instead of every 2 weeks for a number of years because they couldn't cope with the volumes of people!!

    Not very clear thinking going on here at all!!

    Maybe they'll take on extra staff at the dole, thus reducing unemployment. :cool:


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  • #37
    Boombastic
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,496 ✭✭✭Boombastic


    boombang wrote: »
    If you have a job you have to get up and turn up every day.

    While I see downsides, including unnecessary travel costs, I think this is a good thing. I'd have a system whereby everybody would have to sign on before 10am and pass a breathalyser test.

    before 10am, is that because the offies open at 10?


  • #38
    padd b1975
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,910 ✭✭✭✭padd b1975


    whats newxt wrote: »
    I reckon they should provide everyone with a basic income and get it over with.

    They already do:rolleyes:


  • #39
    wes
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,749 ✭✭✭✭wes


    A stupid idea solely designed to kick people, when there down. I am amazed that there are people who think this is a good idea. All, it will do is create unnecessary extra work and cost, for the sole purpose of punishing those down on there luck.


  • #40
    bumper234
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,250 ✭✭✭✭bumper234


    wes wrote: »
    A stupid idea solely designed to kick people, when there down. I am amazed that there are people who think this is a good idea. All, it will do is create unnecessary extra work and cost, for the sole purpose of punishing those down on there luck.

    You mean the people who have never ever worked a day in their life and who are not only happy to be on the dole for many years but SNEER at those who go out to work.


  • #41
    Maphisto
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,014 ✭✭✭Maphisto


    bumper234 wrote: »
    You mean the people who have never ever worked a day in their life and who are not only happy to be on the dole for many years but SNEER at those who go out to work.

    Of course you can back that up with evidence.


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  • #42
    Khaleesi Delicious Neurology
    Posts: 81,308 CMod ✭✭✭✭ Khaleesi Delicious Neurology


    The rule apparently only applies to people out of work 3 years or more. In that case maybe it's ok when the alternative is more training courses, if you're out for 3 years you might need some up to date skills courses.
    Skeptical as usual though - read a thing by someone on the dole who couldn't make their sign on time due to an interview, informed the offices in time and made alternative arrangements, got docked anyway. For going to a job interview :confused:


  • #43
    WilyCoyote
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,059 ✭✭✭WilyCoyote


    Mack Squeaking Teen wrote: »
    Don't forget all those It jobs we keep hearing about that conveniently forget to say you need to be fluent in a second language

    Cockney slang, Mockney or Estuary English? Shurely shomefing wrong!


  • #44
    Bubbaclaus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,460 ✭✭✭Bubbaclaus


    the_syco wrote: »
    Requirement; PHD and 5 years work experience needed.

    Explain how a student can fill this post, will ya? A fecking load of jobs ask for similar requirements

    There are currently 3,000 unfilled low level jobs in the hotel industry in Ireland.


  • #45
    wes
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,749 ✭✭✭✭wes


    bumper234 wrote: »
    You mean the people who have never ever worked a day in their life and who are not only happy to be on the dole for many years but SNEER at those who go out to work.

    Ah, so that all of them, right? Its not like the economy hasn't tanked, and that there aren't plenty of people who haven't been able to get a job for the last 3 years (anyone over 3 years on the dole are to be punished), who before the most recent economic troubles have worked for years before it?

    So everyone should be punished due to a minority who are taking advantage.

    There are plenty of people who due to various reasons have been unlucky enough to be unemployed for more than 3 years. This sort of sweeping nonsense sole purpose exist to be seen to be doing something against something that probably doesn't exist to the extent that some people imagine it to be.

    Also, there is the added administration cost to implementing such a system, but sure money is no object to have a go at the unemployed.

    It is nothing short of amazing at how brave Governments and various people who support this nonsense, are when it comes to having a go at people least able to defend themselves.


  • #46
    osarusan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,059 ✭✭✭✭osarusan


    bumper234 wrote: »
    You mean the people who have never ever worked a day in their life and who are not only happy to be on the dole for many years but SNEER at those who go out to work.

    Would this system identify those people and make only them sign on every day?


  • #47
    bumper234
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,250 ✭✭✭✭bumper234


    Maphisto wrote: »
    Of course you can back that up with evidence.

    Ah the evidence post.

    Personally know 2 people same age as me went to school with them and they have been on the dole since they left school (1987) But that's not evidence right :rolleyes:


  • #48
    whats newxt
    Closed Accounts Posts: 431 ✭✭whats newxt


    bumper234 wrote: »
    They already do this, It's called the dole.

    A basic income is provided to everyone working or not. they did a study in Canada which has a generous welfare system similar to our own and they shown that the removal of the administrative costs of the current welfare systems would allow for a basic income of $7800 p/a without tax increases.


  • #49
    bumper234
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,250 ✭✭✭✭bumper234


    osarusan wrote: »
    Would this system identify those people and make only them sign on every day?

    I don't know that's something you would have to ask the people who are implementing these measures.


  • #50
    Bubbaclaus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,460 ✭✭✭Bubbaclaus


    bumper234 wrote: »
    You mean the people who have never ever worked a day in their life and who are not only happy to be on the dole for many years but SNEER at those who go out to work.

    A friend of mine does that. Spends his week arsing around the place. He once asked me why do I bother going to work "just go on the dole lad"


  • #51
    mikom
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,391 ✭✭✭✭mikom


    Bubbaclaus wrote: »
    A friend of mine does that. Spends his week arsing around the place. He once asked me why do I bother going to work "just go on the dole lad"

    What was your reply to your "friend"?


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  • #52
    Maphisto
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,014 ✭✭✭Maphisto


    Bubbaclaus wrote: »
    A friend of mine does that. Spends his week arsing around the place. He once asked me why do I bother going to work "just go on the dole lad"

    Is that like I have a friend who has trouble with his waterworks?


  • #53
    aidan24326
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,925 ✭✭✭aidan24326


    The truth is that neither the UK nor Irish governments have the faintest idea how to cut the dole queues and get people back to work.

    This idea that there's loads of jobs (proper full-time paying jobs) just waiting to be filled is not a reality. Anybody who has been out of work for a while and doesn't have a million years experience in a specialist area can testify to that.

    Initiatives like this are aimed at potentially cutting the welfare bill but do nothing to tackle the real problem of getting people back to work.

    There are undoubtedly layabouts who don't want to work and I'm all for targeting those wasters but this kind of scheme will negatively affect someone who is genuinely trying to find a job.


  • #54
    Bubbaclaus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,460 ✭✭✭Bubbaclaus


    mikom wrote: »
    What was your reply to your "friend"?

    I told him I like earning my living


  • #55
    wes
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,749 ✭✭✭✭wes


    bumper234 wrote: »
    Ah the evidence post.

    Personally know 2 people same age as me went to school with them and they have been on the dole since they left school (1987) But that's not evidence right :rolleyes:

    Its not sufficient evidence to draw any kind of conclusion from. Seeing as the number your drawing your conclusion from is 3 people (including yourself).

    There is also the fact of a economic down turn, where a lot of people who worked most of there adult lives, are no longer employed. The system described would also catch a lot of the more unlucky amongst that group, solely to have a go at the minority taking advantage.


  • #56
    toughapple
    Closed Accounts Posts: 44 ✭toughapple


    Graces7 wrote: »
    i hear what the charities are saying re voluntary work but they are missing the point. they would be helping the unemployed.

    could use a volunteer here a few hours now and then to do the work i am not able for. eg digging.

    we should here bring back national service.

    We never had national service here!


  • #57
    osarusan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,059 ✭✭✭✭osarusan


    bumper234 wrote: »
    I don't know that's something you would have to ask the people who are implementing these measures.

    And if the system didn't identify these particular people but instead just forced everybody to sign on daily, what would you think then?


  • #58
    mikom
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,391 ✭✭✭✭mikom


    Bubbaclaus wrote: »
    A friend of mine does that. Spends his week arsing around the place. He once asked me why do I bother going to work "just go on the dole lad"
    mikom wrote: »
    What was your reply to your "friend"?
    Bubbaclaus wrote: »
    I told him I like earning my living

    Then this tune swelled up.......

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RCD14IrOcIs


  • #59
    Barely There
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,481 ✭✭✭Barely There


    wes wrote: »
    Ah, so that all of them, right? Its not like the economy hasn't tanked, and that there aren't plenty of people who haven't been able to get a job for the last 3 years (anyone over 3 years on the dole are to be punished), who before the most recent economic troubles have worked for years before it?

    So everyone should be punished due to a minority who are taking advantage.

    Hardly much of a punishment.

    If you're on jobseekers allowance, you're supposed to be actively seeking employment.
    Being asked to sign-on everyday is hardly much of an inconvienence for someone who will no doubt be out pounding the pavements and knocking on doors everyday anyway.


  • #60
    Maphisto
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,014 ✭✭✭Maphisto


    bumper234 wrote: »
    Ah the evidence post.

    Personally know 2 people same age as me went to school with them and they have been on the dole since they left school (1987) But that's not evidence right :rolleyes:

    Right - I'm so sorry I should delete my post :rolleyes:


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  • #61
    bumper234
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,250 ✭✭✭✭bumper234


    osarusan wrote: »
    And if the system didn't identify these particular people but instead just forced everybody to sign on daily, what would you think then?

    I would think it's a good idea as it would be an incentive for people to get out and look for work.


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