Teachers behave like children at their conferences

Peregrine · 22-04-2014 02:49PM

An File wrote: »

And History, Geography, Science, Music, Art, Drama, Physical Education, Religious Education and SPHE too?

They're not core subjects. And you'll be surprised how little History, Geography and Science they actually teach in primary school.

I Heart Internet · 22-04-2014 02:49PM

bodice ripper wrote: »

So, if the primary teachers need to have honours maths, what about college lecturers in maths? They need to have worked for CERN and been to the moon before they can teach?

You're putting Higher Level Maths on a pedestal it doesn't deserve, it's a reasonably basic level of competency in fundamental mathematics.

A college lecturer in maths typically would have a PhD is mathmatics (or be working towards one) or perhaps an allied science.

Adamantium · 22-04-2014 02:49PM

Says a lot about the group mentality of teachers, that they moan and groan at the sight of better education and in particular Higher Level Maths of all things.

To them personally, Its so clearly not about the children, but they wouldn't have the intellectual honesty to say that.

Teachers they are, educators they're not.

Iwasfrozen · 22-04-2014 02:49PM

I Heart Internet wrote: »

Mmmmmm. I see your point. But there must be something more to being a teacher than goodwill and being inspirational to children. There must be some basic educational requirements to be an educator.

Even a pass in ordinary level maths is waaaay above what's needed to teach primary school kids. There is no real educational requirements for primary school beyond basic general knowledge. Inspiration and passion for the job is much more important than qualifications for this profession

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 22-04-2014 02:49PM

Cool Mo D wrote: »

No it isn't. Primary school teachers are responsible for the first 8 years of maths education in this country. Anyone who is not able to pass leaving cert honours maths is clearly incapable of being a maths teacher.

At the moment, there is nothing to prevent someone who struggled with pass maths being in charge of some kids first ever maths class. How are students supposed to be comfortable with learning maths if their teacher can't hack it?

How is LC honours maths going to be essential in teaching a 7 year old maths?

carraig2 · 22-04-2014 02:50PM

I Heart Internet wrote: »

Mmmmmm. I see your point. But there must be something more to being a teacher than goodwill and being inspirational to children. There must be some basic educational requirements to be an educator.

And there must be more to having an ability to communicate than having an honour in maths.
Basic educational requirements????
Have you seen how high the points are for primary teaching.

Insect Overlord · 22-04-2014 02:50PM

Nimrod 7 wrote: »

You'll be surprised how little History, Geography and Science they actually teach in primary school.

Sigh.

I know the curriculum, thanks.

longhalloween · 22-04-2014 02:50PM

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

You don't need honours maths to teach primary school maths.

You can graduate in applied maths in NUI Maynooth without higher level maths.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 22-04-2014 02:52PM

Pherekydes wrote: »

I don't think anyone is looking for the best mathematicians to teach. People just want competence.

Competence in basic maths or teaching?

If a teacher can't add or calculate the volume of a cone, yeah fine, but mostvof us could do that before we finished the junior cert let alone the leaving.

MRnotlob606 · 22-04-2014 02:53PM

When I was in Secondary school I gave some of the teachers a hard time, Which now makes me very ashamed to say it, Some of them are role models to me now and they taught me a lot about life and shaped me into a gentleman. Teachers are very dedicated public servants have been hit hard by the recession, Lets not make easy targets out of them and instead revere them as the ones who hone our youth into valuable contributors to society.

Re-edited I hope they didn't see that I had "Thought" instead of "Taught", jeez my English teacher would have a stroke if he saw that.
don't worry sir I won't betray your honor

I Heart Internet · 22-04-2014 02:54PM

Most professions actually like it when entrance to the profession is made more difficult, it increased the perceived value of the profession.

Pity the INTO doesn't seem to see it like that.

bodice ripper · 22-04-2014 02:54PM

I Heart Internet wrote: »

You're putting Higher Level Maths on a pedestal it doesn't deserve, it's a reasonably basic level of competency in fundamental mathematics.

A college lecturer in maths typically would have a PhD is mathmatics (or be working towards one) or perhaps an allied science.

I did honours maths, I also went to primary school. I didn't see any overlap at all.

I am not saying there shouldn't be an overlap, I am saying if you want primary teachers to be the people who did honours English, maths and Irish, you would need to offering the kind of wages that interest them. And a syllabus that would get the most out of that investment for the tax payer.

It's unfair to blame the primary teachers.

Pherekydes · 22-04-2014 02:54PM

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

How is LC honours maths going to be essential in teaching a 7 year old maths?

What about the 13 year-olds?

Iwasfrozen · 22-04-2014 02:55PM

MRnotlob606 wrote: »

When I was in Secondary school I gave some of the teachers a hard time, Which now makes me very ashamed to say it, Some of them are role models to me now and they thought me a lot about life and shaped me into a gentleman. Teachers are very dedicated public servants have been hit hard by the recession, Lets not make easy targets out of them and instead revere them as the ones who hone our youth into valuable contributors to society.

Is that you Mr. Smith?

Pherekydes · 22-04-2014 02:56PM

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

Competence in basic maths or teaching?

Both surely? Is that too much to ask?

I Heart Internet · 22-04-2014 02:57PM

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

How is LC honours maths going to be essential in teaching a 7 year old maths?

That attitude, taken further, could be used to justify some well-meaning parent who is decent at crosswords being installed as a teacher in their local school. It's an attitude that says, "Ah sure he's only teaching kiddies, he doesn't need to know the subject that well at all."

MRnotlob606 · 22-04-2014 02:58PM

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Is that you Mr. Smith?

Uh oh

I Heart Internet · 22-04-2014 03:00PM

bodice ripper wrote: »

I did honours maths, I also went to primary school. I didn't see any overlap at all.

I am not saying there shouldn't be an overlap, I am saying if you want primary teachers to be the people who did honours English, maths and Irish, you would need to offering the kind of wages that interest them. And a syllabus that would get the most out of that investment for the tax payer.

It's unfair to blame the primary teachers.

So did I. And I'm thankful for primary school teachers who seemed to have a genuine love and passion for teaching maths.

I don't see anyone blaming anyone (except the GS of INTO)...there is simply a suggestion that, perhaps we should ensure new teachers have higher level maths.

Insect Overlord · 22-04-2014 03:01PM

Pherekydes wrote: »

What about the 13 year-olds?

Basic trigonometry, measures of distance, weight, volume, time and money, 2D and 3D shapes, long division and multiplication, compound interest, bar charts and pie charts, co-ordinates, patterns and basic algebra. It's all Junior Cert stuff. Not Leaving Cert Honors

I Heart Internet · 22-04-2014 03:02PM

MRnotlob606 wrote: »

..........Teachers.....have been hit hard by the recession........

That's a good one.

AndonHandon · 22-04-2014 03:05PM

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

The best english teacher I ever had did ordinary maths. Case closed as far as I'm concerned.

Yeah but who are you and what are your credentials?

newport2 · 22-04-2014 03:06PM

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

Irrelevant - a lot of men are reluctant to go onto teaching for fear of accusation being made Against them by overzealous kids or parents.

What's irrelevant?

Teaching has become very feminised.

That's akin to saying that the fact there's too many male politicians is irrelevant because a lot of women are reluctant to go into politics for fear of consistant scrutiny and critism about their appearance. It might be true, but it doesn't mean it should be dismissed as irrelevant.

carraig2 · 22-04-2014 03:06PM

AndonHandon wrote: »

Yeah but who are you and what are your credentials?

And what are Ruairi Quinn's?

Pherekydes · 22-04-2014 03:07PM

An File wrote: »

Basic trigonometry, measures of distance, weight, volume, time and money, 2D and 3D shapes, long division and multiplication, compound interest, bar charts and pie charts, co-ordinates, patterns and basic algebra. It's all Junior Cert stuff. Not Leaving Cert Honors

Yes, JC stuff. Can a JC student teach it? You need to have a profound understanding of it to explain it.

bodice ripper · 22-04-2014 03:07PM

I Heart Internet wrote: »

So did I. And I'm thankful for primary school teachers who seemed to have a genuine love and passion for teaching maths.

I don't see anyone blaming anyone (except the GS of INTO)...there is simply a suggestion that, perhaps we should ensure new teachers have higher level maths.

I still think looking at the syllabus first would be more helpful.

Primary school here (in my experience, I only have a few years in Geneva as a kid to compare it with...) was dreadful, and did not make the best of the most absorbent years of a child's development at all. But it was not because the teachers didn't have honours math, it was spending close to half of all school time on teaching Irish poorly, preparing for religious ceremonies, no European languages and crap facilities.

brooke 2 · 22-04-2014 03:07PM

I Heart Internet wrote: »

Ruari Quinn made a statement of fact - that primary school teaching has become a femanised endevour. The INTO General Secretary Sheila Nunan came back with some real sexist, populist nonsense:

She said:

(from RTE)

Doesn't mean she wasn't right!

AndonHandon · 22-04-2014 03:08PM

carraig2 wrote: »

And what are Ruairi Quinn's?

Elected by the population of Ireland.

Rookster · 22-04-2014 03:08PM

They only applauded once. When he mentioned "pay". Greedy bastards!

bodice ripper · 22-04-2014 03:09PM

I Heart Internet wrote: »

That's a good one.

Ah, I had a feeling it came down to this.

carraig2 · 22-04-2014 03:09PM

AndonHandon wrote: »

Elected by the population of Ireland.

He never taught a day in his life.

Teachers behave like children at their conferences

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