Teachers behave like children at their conferences

Kermit.de.frog

Does anybody find the behaviour of teachers at their conferences every year child like?

You would actually get more maturity from a group of 13 year olds. I'm convinced.

So it's no surprise they boo and hiss at the mere thought of a teacher having to have honors maths. It's about time.

And we clearly need more initiatives like this to weed out the class clowns of which there appear to be many - i.e teachers.

It's asking too much to act in a dignified manner like most adults clearly.

carraig2

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Does anybody find the behaviour of teachers at their conferences every year child like?

You would actually get more maturity from a group of 13 year olds.

So it's no surprise they boo and hiss at the mere thought of a teacher having to have honors maths. It's about time.

And we clearly need more initiatives like this to weed out the class clowns of which there appear to be many - i.e teachers.

It's asking to much to grow up and act in a dignified manner like most adults.

Teacher bashing again.......yawn

Iwasfrozen

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Does anybody find the behaviour of teachers at their conferences every year child like?

You would actually get more maturity from a group of 13 year olds.

So it's no surprise they boo and hiss at the mere thought of a teacher having to have honors maths. It's about time.

And we clearly need more initiatives like this to weed out the class clowns of which there appear to be many - i.e teachers.

It's asking to much to grow up and act in a dignified manner like most adults.

The best english teacher I ever had did ordinary maths. Case closed as far as I'm concerned.

byhookorbycrook

The booing was for his sexism, implying only boys do honours maths. But please don't let your blinkered anti -teacher stance get in the way of the truth .

Caliden

Expect only replies from teachers in this thread, everyone else is working.

I Heart Internet

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

The best english teacher I ever had did ordinary maths. Case closed as far as I'm concerned.

But in primary schools, the english teacher also teaches you maths.

byhookorbycrook

Caliden wrote: »

Expect only replies from teachers in this thread, everyone else is working.

And you ?

wandatowell

Teachers get a lot of flak. Easy target imo.


I was out with a mate the other weekend and a friend of his came out with him and as the night went on I was chatting to him and he mentioned he was a teacher. I started to slag him off and he simply replied "If its so good being a teacher then why didn't you become one?"

Couldn't really answer him but he right, it aint a job for everyone.

Pherekydes

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

The best english teacher I ever had did ordinary maths. Case closed as far as I'm concerned.

This is about primary school teachers doing honours maths. Not English teachers.

bodice ripper

I Heart Internet wrote: »

But in primary schools, the english teacher also teaches you maths.

And if they were teaching Honours Level Maths in primary school, you would have a point...

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

I Heart Internet wrote: »

But in primary schools, the english teacher also teaches you maths.

You don't need honours maths to teach primary school maths.

In any case, the idea that you need honors maths just to teach is a massive fallacy.

Edit - doesn't say primary school teaches I'm the op, does it?

I Heart Internet

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

The booing was for his sexism, implying only boys do honours maths. But please don't let your blinkered anti -teacher stance get in the way of the truth .

Ruari Quinn made a statement of fact - that primary school teaching has become a femanised endevour. The INTO General Secretary Sheila Nunan came back with some real sexist, populist nonsense:

It wasn’t the girls who didn’t do the Higher Level Maths that led the country to ruination.

She said:

“It was the boys who did the Honours Maths that did this”.

(from RTE)

I Heart Internet

bodice ripper wrote: »

And if they were teaching Honours Level Maths in primary school, you would have a point...

So you would be happy with a primary school teacher teaching english to pupils with just a primary school pupil's understanding of the subject? Surely the better a teacher understands a subject, the better they are at teaching even the most basic aspects of it?

SEPT 23 1989

same every year

Insect Overlord

I Heart Internet wrote: »

So you would be happy with a primary school teacher teaching english to pupils with just a primary school pupil's understanding of the subject? Surely the better a teacher understands a subject, the better they are at teaching even the most basic aspects of it?

Leaving Certificate Ordinary Level Maths is waaaaaaaay above the level of primary school maths.

I Heart Internet

An File wrote: »

Leaving Certificate Ordinary Level Maths is waaaaaaaay above the level of primary school maths.

It is significantly above it yes. But a person could coast through ordinary level leaving cert maths, get a bare pass and have no REAL fluency or understanding of maths.

It shouldn't be a hate-crime to suggest that primary school teachers be the absolute best that they can be (and that we would want for our children).

Pherekydes

An File wrote: »

Leaving Certificate Ordinary Level Maths is waaaaaaaay above the level of primary school maths.

But it seems to be below the level of understanding that some primary teachers require.

It's all about understanding.

Cool Mo D

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

You don't need honours maths to teach primary school maths.

In any case, the idea that you need honors maths just to teach is a massive fallacy.

No it isn't. Primary school teachers are responsible for the first 8 years of maths education in this country. Anyone who is not able to pass leaving cert honours maths is clearly incapable of being a maths teacher.

At the moment, there is nothing to prevent someone who struggled with pass maths being in charge of some kids first ever maths class. How are students supposed to be comfortable with learning maths if their teacher can't hack it?

bodice ripper

I Heart Internet wrote: »

So you would be happy with a primary school teacher teaching english to pupils with just a primary school pupil's understanding of the subject? Surely the better a teacher understands a subject, the better they are at teaching even the most basic aspects of it?

By that logic, we should make sure all teachers use years of their lives where they could be teaching to become wildly over qualified? They'll want (quite rightly...) higher wages then.

You'd be better off having a look at the syllabus if you want to improve the standard in primary, I think.

_Whimsical_

I Heart Internet wrote: »

So you would be happy with a primary school teacher teaching english to pupils with just a primary school pupil's understanding of the subject? Surely the better a teacher understands a subject, the better they are at teaching even the most basic aspects of it?

Not necessarily so. Stephen Hawking might have a wonderful grasp of his subjects but wouldn't necessarily be able to relate and explain things in a way a child might understand. At primary level communication skills, the ability to adapt simple principles in creative ways to relate them to children of diverse abilities are much more important than an indept knowledge of involved and complex maths.

jimgoose

You may not teach Karate unless you hold a third-degree (a.k.a. "dan") black belt. You may not teach the driving of a car unless you are examined on advanced driving well beyond what "civilians" are expected to show in the driving test. I should say higher-level maths in the Leaving Cert. is the least we could expect from anyone calling themselves a teacher.

carraig2 wrote: »

Teacher bashing again.......yawn

Where?? I've got a new bat!

I Heart Internet

bodice ripper wrote: »

By that logic, we should make sure all teachers use years of their lives where they could be teaching to become wildly over qualified? They'll want (quite rightly...) higher wages then.

You'd be better off having a look at the syllabus if you want to improve the standard in primary, I think.

Passing higher level leaving cert maths (especially with the advent of "project maths") is not being "widly over qualified" to teach maths (albeit at a more basic level) to children.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

I Heart Internet wrote: »

Ruari Quinn made a statement of fact - that primary school teaching has become a femanised endevour. The INTO General Secretary Sheila Nunan came back with some real sexist, populist nonsense:

She said:

(from RTE)

Irrelevant - a lot of men are reluctant to go onto teaching for fear of accusation being made Against them by overzealous kids or parents.

In any case, the best mathematicians or Irish speakers or whatever usually don't make the best teachers.

I often wonder how many inspirational and life enlightening teachers slip through the net because of something they couldn't do or some grade they didn't get that was vpmpletly unrelated to the job and were thus overlooked or ignored.

Peregrine

An File wrote: »

Leaving Certificate Ordinary Level Maths is waaaaaaaay above the level of primary school maths.

So is Leaving Certificate ordinary level Irish. Yet, higher level Irish is a requirement for primary teaching.

Surely anyone who teaches, to whatever ages, should have an all round good understanding and interest in the subjects? It's easy to achieve good grades in OL Maths without much effort. Is it too much to expect primary teachers to take up HL English, Irish and Maths in secondary school? The three core subjects they'll be teaching for the rest of their life after training?

Gambas

“It was the boys who did the Honours Maths that did this”.

I hope she doesn't teach history. A poor formal education was a badge of honour from the top bankers, to the top developers and the top awntropenoors like Sean Quinn.

Pherekydes

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

In any case, the best mathematicians or Irish speakers or whatever usually don't make the best teachers.

I don't think anyone is looking for the best mathematicians to teach. People just want competence.

bodice ripper

I Heart Internet wrote: »

Passing higher level leaving cert maths (especially with the advent of "project maths") is not being "widly over qualified" to teach maths (albeit at a more basic level) to children.

So, if the primary teachers need to have honours maths, what about college lecturers in maths? They need to have worked for CERN and been to the moon before they can teach?


As the syllabus stands, they have no need for honours maths. They need to look at the syllabus.

I Heart Internet

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

I often wonder how many inspirational and life enlightening teachers slip through the net because of something they couldn't do or some grade they didn't get that was vpmpletly unrelated to the job and were thus overlooked or ignored.

Mmmmmm. I see your point. But there must be something more to being a teacher than goodwill and being inspirational to children. There must be some basic educational requirements to be an educator.

Insect Overlord

Nimrod 7 wrote: »

Is it too much to expect primary teachers to take up HL English, Irish and Maths in secondary school? The three core subjects they'll be teaching for the rest of their life after training?

And History, Geography, Science, Music, Art, Drama, Physical Education, Religious Education and SPHE too?

Menas

I was in a hotel once at the same time as one of these conferences (not sure which teaching union) and bejaysus, the carry on in the bar that night was something else.

Put it this way, they were definitely not behaving like children.

carter10

This is something I've been trying to figure out for some time now. For the past few years there has been a relentless kicking of teachers in this country, more so than any other profession including bankers. As far as I can see it seems to be based on the holidays teachers get and the perceived short working day.
I worked for 19 years in the private sector then 10 years ago went back to education and now work in adult and further education. While working in the private sector I would have held the same anti teacher sentiment I now see constantly on the Internet and in some of our national media. Now that I've had 10 years of experience of the sector I find this constant bashing ill informed and ignorant.
Definitely there are a lot of things teachers could do better but there are a lot of things other professions could do better as well. I am just wondering why we focus on this profession so much in this country?

Peregrine

An File wrote: »

And History, Geography, Science, Music, Art, Drama, Physical Education, Religious Education and SPHE too?

They're not core subjects. And you'll be surprised how little History, Geography and Science they actually teach in primary school.

I Heart Internet

bodice ripper wrote: »

So, if the primary teachers need to have honours maths, what about college lecturers in maths? They need to have worked for CERN and been to the moon before they can teach?

You're putting Higher Level Maths on a pedestal it doesn't deserve, it's a reasonably basic level of competency in fundamental mathematics.

A college lecturer in maths typically would have a PhD is mathmatics (or be working towards one) or perhaps an allied science.

Adamantium

Says a lot about the group mentality of teachers, that they moan and groan at the sight of better education and in particular Higher Level Maths of all things.

To them personally, Its so clearly not about the children, but they wouldn't have the intellectual honesty to say that.

Teachers they are, educators they're not.

Iwasfrozen

I Heart Internet wrote: »

Mmmmmm. I see your point. But there must be something more to being a teacher than goodwill and being inspirational to children. There must be some basic educational requirements to be an educator.

Even a pass in ordinary level maths is waaaay above what's needed to teach primary school kids. There is no real educational requirements for primary school beyond basic general knowledge. Inspiration and passion for the job is much more important than qualifications for this profession

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Cool Mo D wrote: »

No it isn't. Primary school teachers are responsible for the first 8 years of maths education in this country. Anyone who is not able to pass leaving cert honours maths is clearly incapable of being a maths teacher.

At the moment, there is nothing to prevent someone who struggled with pass maths being in charge of some kids first ever maths class. How are students supposed to be comfortable with learning maths if their teacher can't hack it?

How is LC honours maths going to be essential in teaching a 7 year old maths?

carraig2

I Heart Internet wrote: »

Mmmmmm. I see your point. But there must be something more to being a teacher than goodwill and being inspirational to children. There must be some basic educational requirements to be an educator.

And there must be more to having an ability to communicate than having an honour in maths.
Basic educational requirements????
Have you seen how high the points are for primary teaching.

Insect Overlord

Nimrod 7 wrote: »

You'll be surprised how little History, Geography and Science they actually teach in primary school.

Sigh.

I know the curriculum, thanks.

longhalloween

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

You don't need honours maths to teach primary school maths.

You can graduate in applied maths in NUI Maynooth without higher level maths.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Pherekydes wrote: »

I don't think anyone is looking for the best mathematicians to teach. People just want competence.

Competence in basic maths or teaching?

If a teacher can't add or calculate the volume of a cone, yeah fine, but mostvof us could do that before we finished the junior cert let alone the leaving.

MRnotlob606

When I was in Secondary school I gave some of the teachers a hard time, Which now makes me very ashamed to say it, Some of them are role models to me now and they taught me a lot about life and shaped me into a gentleman. Teachers are very dedicated public servants have been hit hard by the recession, Lets not make easy targets out of them and instead revere them as the ones who hone our youth into valuable contributors to society.



Re-edited I hope they didn't see that I had "Thought" instead of "Taught", jeez my English teacher would have a stroke if he saw that.
don't worry sir I won't betray your honor

I Heart Internet

Most professions actually like it when entrance to the profession is made more difficult, it increased the perceived value of the profession.

Pity the INTO doesn't seem to see it like that.

bodice ripper

I Heart Internet wrote: »

You're putting Higher Level Maths on a pedestal it doesn't deserve, it's a reasonably basic level of competency in fundamental mathematics.

A college lecturer in maths typically would have a PhD is mathmatics (or be working towards one) or perhaps an allied science.

I did honours maths, I also went to primary school. I didn't see any overlap at all.


I am not saying there shouldn't be an overlap, I am saying if you want primary teachers to be the people who did honours English, maths and Irish, you would need to offering the kind of wages that interest them. And a syllabus that would get the most out of that investment for the tax payer.

It's unfair to blame the primary teachers.

Pherekydes

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

How is LC honours maths going to be essential in teaching a 7 year old maths?

What about the 13 year-olds?

Iwasfrozen

MRnotlob606 wrote: »

When I was in Secondary school I gave some of the teachers a hard time, Which now makes me very ashamed to say it, Some of them are role models to me now and they thought me a lot about life and shaped me into a gentleman. Teachers are very dedicated public servants have been hit hard by the recession, Lets not make easy targets out of them and instead revere them as the ones who hone our youth into valuable contributors to society.

Is that you Mr. Smith?

Pherekydes

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

Competence in basic maths or teaching?

Both surely? Is that too much to ask?

I Heart Internet

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

How is LC honours maths going to be essential in teaching a 7 year old maths?

That attitude, taken further, could be used to justify some well-meaning parent who is decent at crosswords being installed as a teacher in their local school. It's an attitude that says, "Ah sure he's only teaching kiddies, he doesn't need to know the subject that well at all."

MRnotlob606

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Is that you Mr. Smith?

Uh oh

I Heart Internet

bodice ripper wrote: »

I did honours maths, I also went to primary school. I didn't see any overlap at all.


I am not saying there shouldn't be an overlap, I am saying if you want primary teachers to be the people who did honours English, maths and Irish, you would need to offering the kind of wages that interest them. And a syllabus that would get the most out of that investment for the tax payer.

It's unfair to blame the primary teachers.

So did I. And I'm thankful for primary school teachers who seemed to have a genuine love and passion for teaching maths.

I don't see anyone blaming anyone (except the GS of INTO)...there is simply a suggestion that, perhaps we should ensure new teachers have higher level maths.

Insect Overlord

Pherekydes wrote: »

What about the 13 year-olds?

Basic trigonometry, measures of distance, weight, volume, time and money, 2D and 3D shapes, long division and multiplication, compound interest, bar charts and pie charts, co-ordinates, patterns and basic algebra. It's all Junior Cert stuff. Not Leaving Cert Honors

I Heart Internet

MRnotlob606 wrote: »

..........Teachers.....have been hit hard by the recession........

That's a good one.