Season 4 Episode 2 "The Lion and the Rose" : HAVE read the books

Kunkka · 12-04-2014 11:36AM #1

"The Lion and the Rose" April 13, 2014[105]
Tyrion lends Jaime a hand. Joffrey and Margaery host a breakfast. At Dragonstone, Stannis loses patience with Davos. Ramsay finds a purpose for his pet. North of the Wall, Bran sees where they must go.

Well this is going to be a big episode with what we know is coming. I'm really looking forward to seeing the non book readers reactions as it's such a big moment so early in the season. I hope they do it justice!

Also we are expected to see the new scenes with Bronn and Jaime from the description. They should be a bit of banter!

More importantly we have some scenes with Stannis this week

valor rorghulis · 12-04-2014 05:24PM

Hopefully a bit of Roose as well. Loving McElhatton in this role.

I think we should wait until after the show airs before saying too much, pity the unfortunate non-book reader who accidently clicks in here.

December2012 · 12-04-2014 06:22PM

I'm thinking about taping my husband watching it (he knows nothing).

Did any of you record people watching RW and how did you do it?

lynski · 12-04-2014 10:51PM

so was i [evil giggle] heheheh [/evil giggle] but he would 'purple wedding' me if I did.

Is there any chance they will stretch it out over two weeks? hope not.

Taxburden carrier · 12-04-2014 10:55PM

December2012 wrote: »

I'm thinking about taping my husband watching it (he knows nothing).

Did any of you record people watching RW and how did you do it?

Hi Egret !

username123 · 13-04-2014 06:53PM

lynski wrote: »

so was i [evil giggle] heheheh [/evil giggle] but he would 'purple wedding' me if I did.

Is there any chance they will stretch it out over two weeks? hope not.

Yes, I'm wondering that too. I can't see it though it won't have the same impact unless it's done in one session.

username123 · 13-04-2014 06:58PM

Kunkka wrote: »

Also we are expected to see the new scenes with Bronn and Jaime from the description. They should be a bit of banter.

Yeah, I'm really sorry about the actor who plays Ilyn Payne, but Bronn is an excellent replacement. Plus, we already know Bronn is a good swordsman (well he beat one of the knights of the Vale), and doesn't mind fighting dirty so he will suit Jaimes style of fighting. Bronn just looks great onscreen too, tough as old boots. And I'd believe he would keep quiet for money, presume that's how they'll play it.

lynski · 13-04-2014 09:46PM

I am twitching here, would love to stay up or if we had no kids get up early tomorrow - will be up but can't watch GOT with smallies. Boo
So want to say something - like don't go near anything related to the episode or keep the radio off and stay off the internet too or something. Grrrrrrr
Edit: Just realised it is not on until tomorrow, dagnamit.

Peregrine · 13-04-2014 11:10PM

Thinking of staying up and watching this. I've never done it before. What time does it air on HBO? 2?

I too hope the Purple Wedding is done in one episode.

lynski wrote: »

will be up but can't watch GOT with smallies. Boo

They won't be smallies forever... and winter is coming.

lynski · 13-04-2014 11:40PM

Nimrod 7 wrote: »

Thinking of staying up and watching this. I've never done it before. What time does it air on HBO? 2?

I too hope the Purple Wedding is done in one episode.

They won't be smallies forever... and winter is coming.

Oh I know and the joys ahead - already got the older two on a diet of star wars star trek, marvel, cosmos, LOTR, Harry Potter, Dr. Who (5 yr old girl loves it)

But anyway, I was talking about my oh as he has not read the books and has no idea what is coming. I am bursting to say something to him, but I know if I even ask does anyone in the office watch GOT he will twig.

Right now he has no idea what the twitchy excitement is in aid of and is engrossed in setting up the new Pi for the media playing.

Oh the suspense!

14-04-2014 02:58AM

So full on spurned Shae

really dislike that storyline.

Wedding was ok I guess, so many winks to it being Olenna but where she was sitting would have had to be some throwing ability to make. It lingered on her in the actual ceremony too when saying 'cursed is he who wishes to tear them apart'. Possible future spoiler in the Ramsay/Jon storyline that Ramsay and Roose were perhaps bribing the guys on the wall to kill him.

Witcher · 14-04-2014 03:01AM

Liam O wrote: »

So full on spurned Shae really dislike that storyline.

Wedding was ok I guess, so many winks to it being Olenna but where she was sitting would have had to be some throwing ability to make. Possible future spoiler in the Ramsay/Jon storyline that Ramsay and Roose were perhaps bribing the guys on the wall to kill Jon.

They're just setting it up for Locke to go to the Wall.

Kunkka · 14-04-2014 09:54AM

Roll on half 5!

lynski · 14-04-2014 10:33AM

half 8 here

Paddy Cow · 14-04-2014 10:33AM

Liam O wrote: »

So full on spurned Shae really dislike that storyline.

Wedding was ok I guess, so many winks to it being Olenna but where she was sitting would have had to be some throwing ability to make. It lingered on her in the actual ceremony too when saying 'cursed is he who wishes to tear them apart'. Possible future spoiler in the Ramsay/Jon storyline that Ramsay and Roose were perhaps bribing the guys on the wall to kill him.

When Margery shouted that the pie is coming, Joffrey handed her his cup and she put it down on a table in front of Olenna. Everyone was distracted, giving Olenna plenty of time to put something in the cup. Margery then started feeding Joffrey pie and Joffrey made Tyrion pass him the cup.

lynski · 14-04-2014 10:42AM

but shure we dont know do we? i think there will be some story told in passing and then someone like arya will overhear it.

14-04-2014 10:46AM

A really good episode I think they tried to make it look like a good few people could have done it. But for book readers lady Olenna has a giant arrow pointing at her with how it was shot.
The dragon in Kings Landing explained well for me I liked the other stories and things are coming along nicely. For TV Shae being spurned is grand keeps it moving along

RobbingBandit · 14-04-2014 10:54AM

Not as much overkill as the Red Wedding, still may I be the first to say that little cnut is finally dead.

Paddy Cow · 14-04-2014 10:54AM

lynski wrote: »

but shure we dont know do we? i think there will be some story told in passing and then someone like arya will overhear it.

If you're talking about who killed Joffrey, then we do know. Littlefinger tells Sansa that Olenna did it. The Tyrells want Margery to be the Queen but not married to a monster like Joffrey.

RobbingBandit · 14-04-2014 10:56AM

Was I right in thinking we didn't see Penny in the dwarf melee.

lynski · 14-04-2014 11:01AM

Paddy Cow wrote: »

If you're talking about who killed Joffrey, then we do know. Littlefinger tells Sansa that Olenna did it. The Tyrells want Margery to be the Queen but not married to a monster like Joffrey.

but you cant believe a word out of his mouth and he was putting the ****s into sensa to get her to come with him.

Paddy Cow · 14-04-2014 11:07AM

lynski wrote: »

but you cant believe a word out of his mouth and he was putting the ****s into sensa to get her to come with him.

I believe it was Olenna.

lynski · 14-04-2014 11:17AM

i think littlefinger or Varys

Rosy Posy · 14-04-2014 11:49AM

You could see that there was a stone missing from the necklace that Ser Dontos gave Sansa after the Queen of Thorns was fiddling with it, presumably the means by which Littlefinger passed the poison to her? I never quite got that in the books, surely there would have been a simpler way or someone like QoT would have her own ways and means. Unless it was supposed to implicate Sansa if she were caught? Joffery's death face was awesome, extremely cathartic. You can see Cersei's lunacy bubbling to the surface too.

Was sad to see Penny's been written out but I don't know how many decent female dwarf actresses there are out there.

I have to say I'm quite enjoying the deviations from the book story- I liked how they demonstrated Ramsey's total control of Reek/Theon. I also don't think it's too much of a stretch to see Shae as the spurned lover rather than a simple mercenary whore. In some ways the TV character is more developed than the one in the book. I get the feeling that she will resurface in Tywins bed all the same.
I always got a sense that Tywin's honor was more about appearances than actual morality- what bothered him so much about his fathers mistress was not so much her existence as her taking the place of his mother in the public eye. I could imagine him taking full advantage of Shae so long as it was kept secret. He hates Tyrion because he's open about his baser habits; and he seems more concerned about public perception of Cersei/Jaime's incest than the fact of it.

I was watching my oh for the purple wedding finale and he didn't bat an eyelid- I asked him was he not surprised and he said at this stage he expects everyone to die. I remember being blown away by it in the books. I wonder if grrm's penchant for knocking off main characters is actually desensitising people and diminishing the shock value. I'm guessing Stoneheart will be a genuine surprise all the same.

evil_seed · 14-04-2014 12:03PM

milder than a Dothraki wedding by any standard

username123 · 14-04-2014 12:22PM

Rosy Posy wrote: »

Was sad to see Penny's been written out but I don't know how many decent female dwarf actresses there are out there.

Havent watched it yet but this???? No!!!

A Neurotic · 14-04-2014 12:24PM

username123 wrote: »

Havent watched it yet but this???? No!!!

There's no reason she can't be introduced in a different way later though, surely?

Jijsaw · 14-04-2014 01:23PM

Brilliant, little bas*ard is finally dead

The sadist in me was a bit sad that he didn't tear at his throat though, that scared the living bejaysus out of me when I first read it! :pac:

Mr.Prodston · 14-04-2014 02:23PM

I'm gutted he's finally gone. Any semblance of redemption was well and truly gone by the end but I'm seriously going to miss him. Jack Gleeson did a fantastic job with him.

I guess Ramsey has been broken in as the character you love to hate though, what an opening greeting to him in season 4 :pac:

What struck my mind though was what are they actually doing with Shae? Is there any chance that they're putting Bronn in cahoots with Cersei or Tywin, like we have to assume Shae isn't on the boat so either Bronn lied to Tyrion or something else happened?

Bronn's story is pretty much fair game, I guess, but I can't truly see him betraying Tyrion like that (sellsword I know) even if he won't fight for him in the trial. Plus he seems to be filling into Ilyn Payne a bit too.

Paddy Cow · 14-04-2014 03:15PM

Mr.Prodston wrote: »

I'm gutted he's finally gone. Any semblance of redemption was well and truly gone by the end but I'm seriously going to miss him. Jack Gleeson did a fantastic job with him.

I guess Ramsey has been broken in as the character you love to hate though, what an opening greeting to him in season 4 :pac:

What struck my mind though was what are they actually doing with Shae? Is there any chance that they're putting Bronn in cahoots with Cersei or Tywin, like we have to assume Shae isn't on the boat so either Bronn lied to Tyrion or something else happened?

Bronn's story is pretty much fair game, I guess, but I can't truly see him betraying Tyrion like that (sellsword I know) even if he won't fight for him in the trial. Plus he seems to be filling into Ilyn Payne a bit too.

I was wondering that as well. Maybe they'll go with Bronn being the one to betray Tyrion, not Shae. In the books we know how much Tyrion loved Tysha and hated Tywin for what he did to her. That hasn't come across in the show at all, apart from the one conversation Tyrion had with Bronn and Shae in season 1. Having Tywin kill Shae would be more believable to non book readers than Tywin bedding her.

I can see Bronn betraying Tyrion. When Tyrion asked him if he would rip a baby from it's mother's arms and murder it, Bronn said the only question he would ask is "how much?". He doesn't enjoy cruelty but he is prepared to carry out cruel acts and he will always take care of himself first and foremost.

Mr Freeze · 14-04-2014 03:54PM

Haven't seen the episode yet, but I really hope the Tyrion/Tywin future scene hasn't had Shae cut form it.

That was the worst (best) part of the scene, it was gut wrenching for Tyrion. I thought it was the ultimate betrayal.

Season 4 Episode 2 "The Lion and the Rose" : *HAVE* read the books

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Season 4 Episode 2 "The Lion and the Rose" : HAVE read the books