Russia to move on Moldova?

Cantremember · 13-04-2014 03:02PM

Stavros Murphy wrote: »

I'm not so sure. I heard he had very compromising pictures of Francoise Hollande and Angela Merkel allegedly buying chronic in a dodgy suburb of Brussels. I reckon he'll keep pushing as long as he can ensure their silence.

The only thing I read was that Merkel thinks Putin is mentally unstable.

Hermy · 13-04-2014 03:02PM

It's interesting that the US and UK are making such a song and dance about Russia's lack of regard for international boundaries. Yet when it suits them they show the same disregard.

Stavros Murphy · 13-04-2014 03:09PM

Cantremember wrote: »

The only thing I read was that Merkel thinks Putin is mentally unstable.

Could be true, I heard he suffered from KGB when he was growing up. Most people who have KGB tend to go on to be enormous cnuts.

Putin has stated in the past that he intends restoring Russia to it's former position, which I took to mean an annoying grey kip full of warmongering land-grabbers crapping on the neighbours and polluting stuff. I Guess he's a man of his word.

Seaneh · 13-04-2014 03:15PM

Stavros Murphy wrote: »

an annoying grey kip full of warmongering land-grabbers crapping on the neighbours and polluting stuff. I Guess he's a man of his word.

You talking about Russia, Britain or the US here?

Stavros Murphy · 13-04-2014 03:21PM

Seaneh wrote: »

You talking about Russia, Britain or the US here?

Take your pick. It depends who has the better media, tbh.

Frank Lee Midere · 13-04-2014 03:40PM

Seaneh wrote: »

You talking about Russia, Britain or the US here?

The false dilemma argument rears it's ugly head. Again.

And Britain?

JONJO THE MISER · 13-04-2014 03:44PM

One question i got to ask, have any of ye ever seen a russian smile.

on the river · 13-04-2014 03:46PM

JONJO THE MISER wrote: »

One question i got to ask, have any of ye ever seen a russian smile.

ya when playing russian roulette:D

c_man · 13-04-2014 03:50PM

Put me in charge of defending against the Russian invasion, I've played Command & Conquer Red Alert more times than I can remember. They're only as tough as their Tesla coils.

Stavros Murphy · 13-04-2014 03:51PM

JONJO THE MISER wrote: »

One question i got to ask, have any of ye ever seen a russian smile.

In Russia, smiling somthing, somthing ..you. Who could smile while being so misunderstood - all they want is peace. A peace of here, a peace of there...

Renegade Mechanic · 13-04-2014 03:58PM

Pieces of America scattered everywhere!:D

wendell borton · 13-04-2014 03:59PM

on the river wrote: »

Russia will invade moldova, europe and then the world.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qP6BhAdhSKs

fran17 · 13-04-2014 04:05PM

maybe if nato keep talking about it Russia will pull back

Slutmonkey57b · 13-04-2014 04:06PM

Stavros Murphy wrote: »

This is serious. Please stop trying to drag this down to the level of the gutter.

Then why is it in after hours?

Stavros Murphy · 13-04-2014 04:23PM

Slutmonkey57b wrote: »

Then why is it in after hours?

Regions wasn't big enough.

on the river · 13-04-2014 04:27PM

Stavros Murphy wrote: »

Regions wasn't big enough.

http://i.imgur.com/bGtIrL2.jpg

Seaneh · 13-04-2014 04:49PM

Frank Lee Midere wrote: »

The false dilemma argument rears it's ugly head. Again.

And Britain?

There is no false dilemma. What Russia is doing in Ukraine is actually not even half as bad as the US does in central and south america or what Britain has historically done to other nations near and far.

There is this sacred belief from the convervitards and anglophlies on boards that anyone who points out the shocking actions of America and the UK when trying to offer a bit of balance in conversations about Russia is somehow supporting Russia. I'm not and usually they are not either.

What is happening in the Ukraine right now is entirely the fault of the US (and the EU to a lesser extent, but they stopped meddling when they realised there was no good outcome here, sometime around the turn of the year).

The major difference between what Russia does in Georgia, Maldova and Crimea is that they have genuine ethnic connections to the people in the regions they are currently occupying.

The US and UK just ride rough shode over half the planet for the last 50 odd years, killing and maiming millions, deposing democratically elected governments, propping up despots and dictators and generally being cu*ts for no other end goal but the gain of wealthy private entities and not a peep out of the usual peons, but the second someone the governments they sycophantically praise does something naughty it's faux outrage and war mongering.

It's hilarious.

AllGunsBlazing · 13-04-2014 05:04PM

jane82 wrote: »

Its a hard rain is gonna fall.

Dry with ocassional showers afaik.

Frank Lee Midere · 13-04-2014 05:13PM

Seaneh wrote: »

There is no false dilemma. What Russia is doing in Ukraine is actually not even half as bad as the US does in central and south america or what Britain has historically done to other nations near and far.

There is this sacred belief from the convervitards and anglophlies on boards that anyone who points out the shocking actions of America and the UK when trying to offer a bit of balance in conversations about Russia is somehow supporting Russia. I'm not and usually they are not either.

What is happening in the Ukraine right now is entirely the fault of the US (and the EU to a lesser extent, but they stopped meddling when they realised there was no good outcome here, sometime around the turn of the year).

The major difference between what Russia does in Georgia, Maldova and Crimea is that they have genuine ethnic connections to the people in the regions they are currently occupying.

The US and UK just ride rough shode over half the planet for the last 50 odd years, killing and maiming millions, deposing democratically elected governments, propping up despots and dictators and generally being cu*ts for no other end goal but the gain of wealthy private entities and not a peep out of the usual peons, but the second someone the governments they sycophantically praise does something naughty it's faux outrage and war mongering.

It's hilarious.

Nope. Still seeing a false dilemma here. Maybe you should look up what that means before you post more embarrassing tripe.

EDIT: and you should also look up why Russia has ethnic interests in those parts of the world which aren't Russian.

Frank Lee Midere · 13-04-2014 05:17PM

For the record I think the US shouldn't act outside its borders not was the British Empire legit. Nor the Roman Empire.

But the latter two are all done now.

Back to Russia.

Seaneh · 13-04-2014 05:24PM

Frank Lee Midere wrote: »

Nope. Still seeing a false dilemma here. Maybe you should look up what that means before you post more embarrassing tripe.

EDIT: and you should also look up why Russia has ethnic interests in those parts of the world which aren't Russian.

No, I really think you are trying to accuse me of the wrong informal fallacy because false dilemma doesn't apply to either of the two posts you have quoted, at all, especially not the first one. So I'd recommend you google the phrase before embarrassing yourself further. There are other informal fallacies you could accuse me of, which would be less wrong, but they still wouldn't be accurate.

Frank Lee Midere · 13-04-2014 05:35PM

Seaneh wrote: »

No, I really think you are trying to accuse me of the wrong informal fallacy because false dilemma doesn't apply to either of the two posts you have quoted, at all, especially not the first one. So I'd recommend you google the phrase before embarrassing yourself further. There are other informal fallacies you could could accuse of of which would be less wrong, but they still wouldn't be accurate.

No. Let's be clear here. It's a false dilemma to suggest that you can't be concerned about Russian and American imperialism.

It's also whataboutary. Moral equivalence. Etc. Being upset that I haven't called you on all your fallacies is a bit of a weak argument.

In fact the Americans empire and the un-lamented British empire are of no relevance here.

Does a country have a right to invade other countries or not ? Do bigger countries have the right to invade smaller countries or not? Can you plant a people in someone else's country and then claim rights over that ethnic group or not. ( reference the Sudentanland or Palestine in your answer). Where does this end? Because of Russian/Soviet colonisation 30% of the Baltics have Russian populations. Can Russia move in to protect its population?

Seaneh · 13-04-2014 05:49PM

Frank Lee Midere wrote: »

No. Let's be clear here. It's a false dilemma to suggest that you can't be concerned about Russian and American imperialism.

It's also whataboutary.

In fact the Americans empire and the un-lamented British empire are of no relevance here.

First of all, the first post you quoted merely supposed the idea that Stravos Murphy could just as easily have been talking about the UK or US or any other major world power with his broad sweeping comment directed at Russia.

There was no false dilemma, and if you still think there was I can pm you a link to a few articles about informal fallacies so you can better understand the terms you are trying to use. Because you're painfully misusing the term here.

The second post merely pointed out why the first post was a valid statement. I also threw in a few swipes at the types of people who create echo chambered posts about anything remotely related to the advancement of US foreign policy and the derision of all those who oppose or dislike it.

There is this, extremely false, assertion on boards from the faux-enlightened right on boards that "whataboutery" is a valid criticism any time anyone points out their hypocrisy (or perceived hypocrisy).

It's nothing more than a lazy Ad hominem and doesn't actually address or counter the claim of hypocrisy.

So again, I suggest you go and read at least the wikipedia stub about false dilemma on the informal fallacy entry before trying to claim anyone besides yourself is embarrassing themselves.

Vision of Disorder · 13-04-2014 05:53PM

I have spent the last few posts grinding my teeth at the wholesale use of the word 'dilemma'.

"Why aren't they spelling it 'dilemna' as I was taught?" wondered Vision of Disorder.

A quick google search reveals that I (and apparently millions of others) have actually been taught incorrectly in this instance.

http://www.dilemna.info/index.php

I'm staggered by this, far more so than the inevitable Russian backsliding into conquest!

WakeUp · 13-04-2014 05:56PM

Diego Simeone wrote: »

I presume by us you mean the EU? Most Irish and British gas comes from the North Sea/Corrib Gas.

If Russia does pull the plug, there's plenty of energy available from Norway and North America that will fill the gap if the need requires. Russia will find it very difficult to sell its gas elsewhere in the short to medium term though. The EU does need to start seriously pushing renewable energy and that may include more nuclear.

Europe could attempt to diversify its LNG supplies though it is far from an easy thing to do logistically and financially it would be a massive undertaking, to say there is plenty of energy available isnt accurate. Norway already has pre-existing contracts to supply gas to customers short term changes to supply would be difficult. They could increase production though it still wouldnt be enough. Also liquefied natural gas on the global market costs twice as much as it does when sourced from a Russian supplier. Oil is different there is plenty of that available at a moderate price gas supply is a different matter altogether. For Europe to free itself from its current dependence on Russian natural gas its going to be some task indeed.

Charif Souki, chief executive of Cheniere’s US gas export company said this when asked if his terminal could rescue eastern European countries from dependence on Russia...

“It’s flattering to be talked about like this, but it’s all nonsense. It’s so much nonsense that I can’t believe anybody really believes it.”
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-04-11/liberation-europe-gazprom-due-nat-gas-exports-nonsense-cheniere-ceo

and even if the US was in a position to export enough gas at a price that makes sense considering the distance involved between the States and Europe, contracts and agreements have to be agreed upon and put in place these things can take a lot of time sometimes years to sort out. Its going to be a very tough undertaking to break away from Russian gas now or in the future.

Seaneh · 13-04-2014 05:57PM

Frank Lee Midere wrote: »

Does a country have a right to invade other countries or not ? Do bigger countries have the right to invade smaller countries or not? Can you plant a people in someone else's country and then claim rights over that ethnic group or not. ( reference the Sudentanland or Palestine in your answer). Where does this end? Because of Russian/Soviet colonisation 30% of the Baltics have Russian populations. Can Russia move in to protect its population?

I never said Russia did have a right to invade anyone, annex anyone or plant ethnic russians in Crimea or Moldova.

By the way, I won't accuse you of using a false dilemma because that wouldn't be inaccurate, I'll encourage you to figure out which informal fallacy you have used here though.

Hermy · 13-04-2014 06:10PM

Diego Simeone wrote: »

...If Russia does pull the plug...

Out of interest if Russia did turn off the tap would it be a little like cutting off ones nose to spite ones face? Would they not suffer as much through lost revenue as those they deny a supply to?

Seaneh · 13-04-2014 06:12PM

Hermy wrote: »

Out of interest if Russia did turn off the tap would it be a little like cutting off ones nose to spite ones face? Would they not suffer as much through lost revenue as those they deny a supply to?

Russia would lose money but they could easily just sell more gas to Asian countries at a smaller margin and still be making money hand over fist.

humanji · 13-04-2014 06:13PM

For god's sake people, the thread is about Russia and Moldova. There's no need to rant about the UK and US past actions or to bicker with those who do.

Amirani · 13-04-2014 06:16PM

Seaneh wrote: »

Russia would lose money but they could easily just sell more gas to Asian countries at a smaller margin and still be making money hand over fist.

There's nothing like the same infrastructure to get similar volumes of gas to Asia. It's by no means certain how much demand there is in the Asian market either.

Russia to move on Moldova?

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